What Happens?

If you were hunting a county or WMA with the four points on one side rule, and happen to kill a great six pointer, three on each side, which you had mistaken for a legal deer by mistake, what happens?

If you had to take the deer back to the check station at the WMA to have it checked out, what would be the rangers response to the illegal buck. I figure one of three things can happen. Perhaps a pat on the back saying that's okay this time, it looks like an honest mistake. Or maybe a fine and you can keep your buck; or finally, a fine and the buck is consficated for being illegal.

I can imagine that some deer killed undersized like this would be left in the woods once it was found to be illegal. Some deer would probably be brought out of the woods and processed with no one ever knowing that the deer was not legal where killed. I'm sure this happens at times. Does anyone know how this is handled from DNR's point of view?

Harkins......

I guess it would just depend on the kind of mood the ranger was in.......

IMO......

It's probably a "black and white" issue......

Either it's "LEGAL" or it "AIN'T".......

I'd imagine a "citation" is comin'..... :

My guess would be....,

"a fine and the buck is confiscated".

Heck they wouldn't even allow the guy who hit, & killed that bear in Gwinnett County a while back to keep the bear and It sounded like the bear collision totaled his car.

e.r.

It varies

But you almost always lose the deer (it gets donated, usually). One of the problems with quality regulations that are mandated by law is illustrated here. There is no scientific reason not to take a super six-pointer (say one that just happens to have no brow tines), but the law makes no provision for that. The DNR has no wiggle room on this, and they did not make the law. I worked hunts on WMAs where there was a beam and/or spread restriction. When someone comes in with one that's short a half inch on both (and you always have a audience), there usually is a ticket written. The ranger is in a situation similar to getting stopped by the state patrol and registering a .10 on the breathalyzer. Yes, you are barely illegal, but they can't cut you loose. Law enforcement has to work within the framework given to them by the government, and that often is not fun. They will often bend over backwards to try to get the best out of the situation (especially when a young hunter is involved). The quality regulations were, in most cases, requested by the hunting population (county regs). On WMAs you have a choice, if you don't feel comfortable with the regs, don't go.

The quality regulations were, in most cases, requested by the hunting population (county regs). On WMAs you have a choice, if you don't feel comfortable with the regs, don't go.

Click to expand...

I agree...If a person doesn't like the regulations on a WMA, then they should go to a different WMA. On county regulations there is a little more gray area. Sure the majority of county residents wanted the quality regs imposed, but the ones who voted against it are suddenly left without a choice. Suddenly the state says you can not kill this deer eventhough it resides on your farm.

Don't you think with the fear of a citation, most people hunting on a WMA with quality regulations would leave that great six pointer laying in the woods or try to get it home without being seen, rather than taking it to the check station where they know they are about to lose their deer and get a ticket for their trouble?

That's true

There are a lot of deer left laying because of the fear of citation. DNR associates routinely find deer after hunts during the course of their duties that were left because they were 'illegal.' True, no one wants a ticket, but if you make a mistake like that and turn the deer in, yes you probably will get a ticket and some charity will get your deer. Depending on the county, the usual fine is a couple of hundred dollars, and often an officer will put it in their report what happened, which often mitigates your fine. If you try to sneak it out, it usually costs you more if you are caught. If you leave it there, you waste the deer, which is unethical IMO. I can sympathize with all the problems here. As a professional, a game violation is potentially career-ending...as it is for all wildlife professionals, so we are often acutely aware of the possibilities. Most 'honest mistake' game violations are equivalent to a traffic citation. It is unlikely you will lose your job over it. When it comes down to it, it is the hunter's responsibility to know when to take the shot or not. My advice, when asked how to tell if a buck meets the restrictions has always been, if you don't know FOR SURE don't shoot. Making a kill is not that important.

Man that almost happened to me last year. I was invited to hunt super really nice land in Baldwin Co. And I'd already taken a 5 pt buck opening day..so I had to have a 8 or better. 2 hours after daylight I was in a ladder stand and the sun was right in my eyes so I got down and moved 40 yrds and sat on the ground watching a hardwood ridge. 20 mins late a BRUISER of a buck run right by me and stops 20 yrds away I mean this is a big bodied buck well over 200lbs tall narrow rack 3 points on the side I can see...broadside at 20 yards. Rifle comes up,finger on the Safety getting ready to take it off. Deer turns it's head to look away so I can see the rack from behind.....no brow tines...biggest 6 pt I've ever myself seen....watched the darn thing walk around for another 5 mins....sooo close..... no cigar!

Let's start a QDM debate

I'm all for QDM, but not for the laws that go along with it.

Our club is QDM, but we do have an exception for kids that are taking their first ever buck. I'm all for "Let him go, so he can grow", but what's more important...letting a kid kill a younger buck that will give him memories for a lifetime, or letting him go so that he will become a wise old mature buck that a youngster may never lay eyes on?

The law is the law, and it makes no provisions one way or another as far as leniancy.

Our club is not in a mandated trophy county, but we do enforce QDM rules. However, we do have the FREEDOM to make exceptions.

I feel that educating people of the importance of managing your herd, is far better than strong-arming them with laws that require it. As long as you have laws, you will always have some out there breaking them. I guess that we could post a poll asking what you would do in a situation where you accidentally pulled the trigger on a mainframe 3x3 with no brow tines. I consider myself a very ethical hunter, and doubt seriously that I would ever leave a deer in the woods to waste, but what about someone who knows they can't afford to pay the fines, or their child misjudged the size of the rack?

Before someone tells me of the importance of knowing your target before you shoot, I'm not talking about taking pot shots at anything that moves. I'm talking about a mature animal that's got everything going for it, but no brow tines. I know, because I almost shot one one time myself. I'm here to tell you, it would've been my best buck to date, & I'm sure I would have mounted it. It was a very tall rack with good mass,,,just no brows.

If I had taken that buck, I would have been subjected to fines, & my best ever buck would have been confiscated. Is that what hunting's all about?

I am very happy with the new regs with antler restrictions on 1 of 2 bucks per hunter. I vote leave it that way & do away with antler restrictions per county or Heaven forbid, statewide.

My 2 cents.

Joe I know what your talking about, we have killed 2 huge spikes on our land in the last 5 years. I killed one that was aged at 4.5 years old and had a body weight inexcess of 190lb. And last season I saw his twin and one of the other members killed him a week later. Neither of these were 'legal" bucks right across the river in Hancock Co. And not many trophy bucks were going to beat up on these deer for breeding rights....how do you get bucks like that our of the gene pool in a "QMA" county. Seems like they will sooner or later have a negative impact on the herd. :

I guess we'll debate this again?

Everyone's brought up some good points regarding why legislating QDM has its drawbacks. I agree wholeheartedly. QDM can work, but you'll be hard-pressed to find a majority of wildlife professionals who believe that law-based QDM works better than programs driven by hunter choice (based on education and supported by hunters). I have by no means been around this issue for as long as some of the experts, but in my experience, the places that have seen the best response from QDM efforts have been completely voluntary, not based on regulations. I too feel that a young hunter should be able to take at least one buck of any size....if I had grown up having to take a buck with 4 points on a side or better, it would have taken a lot longer before I got the chance to take a buck. As I got older, I started passing younger bucks as a matter of personal choice. To me, it's kind of like killing jake turkeys, it just doesn't give me much of a thrill. I don't feel the need to kill something to prove myself...but I sure do like to eat wild game. My definition of a quality deer (except when the big boy slips by!) is a nice fat doe, tastes better on the grill!

little better than the 6 point i saw friday

wish that 6 point you've got tom was the one i passed up on friday evening. that would have been a rush.

I understand totally the problem. 2 years ago I wathced a nice 8 pointer at Joe kurz for almost 15 minutes before I shot him. I had a delima, I also have a associates degree in wildlife managment and do not need a sitation. He was about 100 yards off and I keep putting the binoculars on him and looking. The spread was not there so I had to go by antler lenght and at 100 yards it is hard to pull out the tape measure and go check. The deer was 4 1/2 yrs old, field dressed 157, spread of 12 3/4 with antler lenght of 21 1/4. So he was legall but if I had only a short time to study him I probably would have had to pass up on the biggest boddied deer and a deer with the most mass in his antlers that I had every shot. I saw a 6 pointer that same day that fits the nostion of big deer no browtines. He was as big a body as the 8 pointer I shot. If I had seen him from 100 yards for a short time I do not know what would have happened. The 6 pointer was very much out side the ears and a very tall rack. So from the same distance it might not have been as easy to determine that he was not a shoter. I figured that someone might ground check him in the later hunt if they saw him at a long distance because of his size. So I see the problem as that there is no lee way for the honest mistake, but how is the Game Warden to determine if it was a mistake or if you are trying to sneek one by them. So the law has to be black and white, I can live with it even thou I do not agree with it when it comes to a kids first buck.

Nice buck Tom!

He's a trophy in my book. I'd be tickled to death for my son to take a buck like that (or me for that matter!). Hopefully, he'll have the chance before the law dictates that he can't.

The laws have to be black & white, or there would be no way to enforce them. That, IMO is the problem. Promote QDM, don't dictate it.