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Jranger
05-15-2008, 11:05 AM
I did a car loan back in January of this year and now I am looking to refinance the loan since I can beat the rate by over a point. My problem comes when I obtain my payoff from the bank. They have added in a prepayment penalty to my payoff amount and what appears to be additional finance charges? After 3 days of calling I finally got a customer no service operator that explained they held a signed contract that stated I would have these penalties for early payoff. Well not to be outdone I pulled out the contract I signed, and ALL the boxes that have anything to do with prepayment penalties are unchecked and the only one that is checked is the one that says "Prepayment: if you pay this Contract early, you ___ may _X_ will not have to pay a minimum finance charge"
When I asked about how I dispute the loan, I was told in no uncertain terms, "this loan is indisputable, we have your signature on this piece of paper that says otherwise"
What next? Until I get this resolved I am stuck in the loan paying higher interest. I will never get the money back if I refi and try to get it back...:huh::banginghe

dawg2
05-15-2008, 11:07 AM
I did a car loan back in January of this year and now I am looking to refinance the loan since I can beat the rate by over a point. My problem comes when I obtain my payoff from the bank. They have added in a prepayment penalty to my payoff amount and what appears to be additional finance charges? After 3 days of calling I finally got a customer no service operator that explained they held a signed contract that stated I would have these penalties for early payoff. Well not to be outdone I pulled out the contract I signed, and ALL the boxes that have anything to do with prepayment penalties are unchecked and the only one that is checked is the one that says "Prepayment: if you pay this Contract early, you ___ may _X_ will not have to pay a minimum finance charge"
When I asked about how I dispute the loan, I was told in no uncertain terms, "this loan is indisputable, we have your signature on this piece of paper that says otherwise"
What next? Until I get this resolved I am stuck in the loan paying higher interest. I will never get the money back if I refi and try to get it back...:huh::banginghe

Tell them to fax you a copy of the contract.

Jranger
05-15-2008, 11:09 AM
Tell them to fax you a copy of the contract.

They will mail only, which I requested.

Dog Hunter
05-15-2008, 11:23 AM
Call the dealer and get them involved. Ask them why they changed the forms after the fact.

dawg2
05-15-2008, 11:36 AM
They will mail only, which I requested.

Good. Take a look and see if they are just bluffing. If they changed it, then they will have big problems!:bounce:

Swede
05-15-2008, 11:38 AM
Call the dealer and get them involved. Ask them why they changed the forms after the fact.

I agree, give the dealer a shot. His or her interest is keeping you as a customer. I hope. Call and ask for the sales manager.

dawg2
05-15-2008, 11:41 AM
I agree, give the dealer a shot. His or her interest is keeping you as a customer. I hope. Call and ask for the sales manager.

Most dealers outsource the financing and have no control over the terms. He's probably mailing his payment to Iowa or somewhere else far,far, away.

Darcy
05-15-2008, 11:49 AM
if you have a signed and dated contract, with the terms that you agreed upon, then how can they have another stating something else? something sounds fishy.

I just signed away a couple years on my first big loan, and i made sure that everything was set in stone - the loan officer pulled my carbon copies out of the pages i was signing, so i know i have they same thing they have.


keep us updated, i'm interested to hear what is going on.

marknga
05-15-2008, 12:04 PM
I'm the F&I manager at a RV Dealership and I highly recomemnd that you get the dealer involved. I think that you will find the Finance Manager more than willing to assist you.

Something don't sound right.


Mark

Swede
05-15-2008, 12:05 PM
Most dealers outsource the financing and have no control over the terms. He's probably mailing his payment to Iowa or somewhere else far,far, away.

Yes but the financing company needs the dealer to sell it. Dealer has some weight with the bank.

Twenty five ought six
05-15-2008, 12:07 PM
They will mail only, which I requested.

Send a letter, certified mail, return receipt requested, requesting a copy. It's a hassle but it needs to be done.

Also request a copy of the Truth in Lending disclosure statement that you (should have) signed. It should disclose whether or not there is pre-payment penalty. The TIL may be part of the contract that you signed.

Phone requests tend to get lost, especially as you are probably talking to someone in a "service center" who has absolutely no access to the documents.

I'd also drop a letter to the dealer outlining your problem, and mentioning that you will hold them responsible for any additional charges. Try to address the letter to an individual, not just "John Doe Motors".

Letters can be a pain, but when it comes to who said what when, they still are the best proof.

elfiii
05-15-2008, 12:41 PM
This might help

http://www.georgia.gov/00/channel_title/0,2094,4802_5041,00.html

Jranger
05-15-2008, 12:43 PM
Thanks for all the input, I will keep you posted on the outcome. I would have expected more from such a well known bank. I will try some of the suggestions from here...

ch035
05-16-2008, 02:34 PM
the dealer cant do anything unless it is through their bank. if you arranged your own financing you are on your own. If you did use one of the dealerships lenders then contact the finance manager? Which bank did you use? Most of the big banks dont have pre payment penalties. hope this helps.

mark-7mag
05-17-2008, 02:32 PM
I hope you didn't buy it from Bill Heard. If so, you wont get much help.

Jranger
05-20-2008, 02:37 PM
OK, I got the copy of the contract in the mail yesterday. It was the identical contract I signed. I then called Suntrust (in case you guys were wondering) and low and behold it was as if someone flipped a switch or something. Without even saying a word the demeanor of the customer service personnel changed from one of rude narcissism to complete cooperation. The customer service woman looked up the contract that was scanned in her system and proceeded to tell me my contract said nothing about prepayment penalties and I was in the right (sorta took the wind outta my sails). I am not sure what happened but they removed all charges. What really has me curious is why it took four phone calls and a contract being sent to me to get this resolved? Was it just luck of the draw with customer service, or is this a tactic played out in the hopes that most people won't go to this much trouble over a few hundred dollars? Either way I am glad I stuck to my guns, but my business will be conducted elsewhere since this occurred.:fine:

dawg2
05-20-2008, 02:48 PM
OK, I got the copy of the contract in the mail yesterday. It was the identical contract I signed. I then called Suntrust (in case you guys were wondering) and low and behold it was as if someone flipped a switch or something. Without even saying a word the demeanor of the customer service personnel changed from one of rude narcissism to complete cooperation. The customer service woman looked up the contract that was scanned in her system and proceeded to tell me my contract said nothing about prepayment penalties and I was in the right (sorta took the wind outta my sails). I am not sure what happened but they removed all charges. What really has me curious is why it took four phone calls and a contract being sent to me to get this resolved? Was it just luck of the draw with customer service, or is this a tactic played out in the hopes that most people won't go to this much trouble over a few hundred dollars? Either way I am glad I stuck to my guns, but my business will be conducted elsewhere since this occurred.:fine:

Like I said, get a copy of the original contract:cool: They do that stuff ALL the time. Most people just give up and pay!

Twenty five ought six
05-20-2008, 05:35 PM
Was it just luck of the draw with customer service, or is this a tactic played out in the hopes that most people won't go to this much trouble over a few hundred dollars?

Insurance companies do the same thing all the time. Read The Rainmaker by John Grisham sometime. Although a novel, it is based on well documented facts.

Think about it. How many 10's if not 100's of thousands of car loans does Suntrust have?

Think about it again. Most borrowers (as opposed to other lenders) are calling for a payoff because they are in a time sensitive situation. The borrowers don't have to time to check out the details, and the vast majority of them don't know any better but to trust the bank.

You want to pay off your loan early. If just 5-10% of the people pay the charges, look at what it does to the profitability of their loan portfolio, taking into consideration the early pay-offs.

Congratulations on having the gumption to work it out.

MudDucker
05-20-2008, 05:44 PM
Get the two copies and go to your local district attorney. If they changed this after you signed and gave you different copies, this is fraud.

Sargent
05-20-2008, 05:54 PM
Its not fraud. There are two ways to compute interest on a loan. Simple interest is what most people do and is, by far, the most common.

An older method, sometimes still used to today is called "The rule of 78s". In the fine print in your contract, it probably has a clause that says that the lender may re-calculate your payments based on the rule of 78s if you decide to pay it off early. If this occurs, the lender comes out better and your payoff is higher.

So, you brought it up to them and they decided they wouldn't. In today's market, most lenders will go ahead and do the payoff based on simple interest even though they have the right to collect via the rule of 78s. Its just a good common practice.

mhayes
05-20-2008, 06:29 PM
Get the two copies and go to your local district attorney. If they changed this after you signed and gave you different copies, this is fraud.

It is not fraud, He said the copy was the same as what he had. Nothing was changed after his deal. The Bank was in the wrong asking him to pay penalties. He should have never been asked to pay. If I am not mistaken you cannot write a rule of 78 contract in GA anymore. Looks like they were just tacking on some fees hoping that will would pay. Yes it does make their portfollio look beter if 1/3 of the customers that theya ask to do this don't question it and pay the fees. Not sure if it was a personel mistake or a poor attempt at a sorry tactic. Just remember that this was the banks fault not your dealers!!!

jones
05-27-2008, 10:32 PM
you will probaly wait on that wholesaler next time???

Twenty five ought six
05-27-2008, 10:46 PM
If I am not mistaken you cannot write a rule of 78 contract in GA anymore.

You are mistaken.