Nicodemus,,,,, you're on to somethin'

[GA1dad]

I'm not stock piling ammunition,,,,,,,, but I am aware of the rising cost of it. And I've been considering what I might choose if shooting/hunting just simply got too expensive.

I thought about your "one gun" choice, Nic. :rolleyes:Blackpowder guns have merit!! With the ability to make your own powder and bullets,,,,, it would be pretty easy to set yourself up with a lifetime of shooting supplies.

Then I kinda started thinking along the lines of what's the best "one gun". But from a slightly differant angle.

What would be the best caliber to choose for the rest of your life??? Throughout any economic crisis???

Considerations:

1- Brass availability?? What would be common to come across,,,, or what would be easiest to make from other cases? And what calibers do you get the most case life out of??

2- Ability to make quality bullets? Bullets capable of taking deer/elk/bear/hogs?? Needs to be made out of common materials also.

3- Powder??? What caliber weapon would be the most efficiant with homemade powder?


What about small game hunting?????? With the above criteria,,,, could you come up with a 2nd acceptable small game weapon???

Keep in mind,,, this is a economy based question,,,,,, not a government takeover question.

This question is for all members,,,,,,

[WildcatHunter]

i would defintly stay in either the .22 caliber or the .30 caliber area... both are cheap

[dchfm123]

Any caliber that our military or other countrys militarys use. There will always be surplus ammo slipping through.

[Luke_M]

Any caliber that our military or other countrys militarys use. There will always be surplus ammo slipping through.

+1 my thoughts exactly.

[JustUs4All]

For the economy based question - .36 or .45 cal flintlock with bullet mold, lots of bulk lead, and more knowledge than I have about the manufacture of black powder. Either of these will take small or large game.

[tv_racin_fan]

If you intend to go the black powder route you really need two weapons. A small caliber ( like 36 cal but 32 up to 40 would be fine) for small game and a larger caliber smooth bore for larger game and birds.

If you are thinking a modern weapon I'd say go with a 308 for the rifle and a 357 or 44 mag revolver for a handgun. You would surely be able to find brass for that and you could easily get by with black powder and lead bullets molded yourself.

[GA1dad]

I was thinking I might research the .444. It might have an extremley long case life, as I recall it is a straight case with no shoulders. 44 cal lead bullets shouldn't be hard to make. Might operate with homemade powder?????


I still haven't figured out what I would shoot squirrels with.

[straitshooter]

Any caliber that our military or other countrys militarys use. There will always be surplus ammo slipping through.

but what about if obama bans this ammo for civillian use?

[TatnallCountyHunter]

+1 my thoughts exactly.

X2. Luke, I really like your new avatar! :cool:


On the topic of reloading, I havn't checked lately but I know that Cabela's was sold out on both .223 and 7.62x39 cases back about 3 weeks ago. Havn't checked lately. I guess alot of people are buying the supplies to make their own!

[GA1dad]

Any caliber that our military or other countrys militarys use. There will always be surplus ammo slipping through.


You are right,,,,, I believe there will always be "some" surplus ammo around. But if ammo is scarce,,,,,,,, pricing will be outrageous!!!

[tv_racin_fan]

Ammo should be available on the black market. BUT you may or may not want to avail yourself of that option. Pretty much anything will function with "home made" powder. Naturally you would have some trouble reloading rimfire shells such as the 22 (it is possible tho). Semi auto firearms wont like "home made" powder as it will be quite dirty. If you intend to be able to reload you need to stock up on wheel weights or lead ingots for bullet casting and primers and brass of the caliber you desire. 444 should be an awesome choice or 45-70. The 30-30 started life as a black powder powered cartridge and would work just fine. Black powder is actually very easy to clean, soap and water works great and plain water will get the job done. Crisco or lard will do nicely for lube (bear grease is actually preffered).

If you can shoot you can "bark" squirrels with that 444 sir.

[bearpugh]

its all a guess. i've always felt i should keep a bunch of .22lr on hand in order to ride out things til you knew what was available. it will probably be something obscure. i think the common stuff like 223, 7.62x39, .308, will be the 1st stuff they put the hammer down on. but who knows.

[GA1dad]

Ammo should be available on the black market. BUT you may or may not want to avail yourself of that option. Pretty much anything will function with "home made" powder. Naturally you would have some trouble reloading rimfire shells such as the 22 (it is possible tho). Semi auto firearms wont like "home made" powder as it will be quite dirty. If you intend to be able to reload you need to stock up on wheel weights or lead ingots for bullet casting and primers and brass of the caliber you desire. 444 should be an awesome choice or 45-70. The 30-30 started life as a black powder powered cartridge and would work just fine. Black powder is actually very easy to clean, soap and water works great and plain water will get the job done. Crisco or lard will do nicely for lube (bear grease is actually preffered).

If you can shoot you can "bark" squirrels with that 444 sir.

Sounds like you understand the angle I'm looking at. I'm, thinking "Quigley" here.

I bet it would be possible to load up a shotshell in 444 brass also. Prolly wouldn't pattern very well,,,,,,,, but you'd look cool out there chasing rabbits with a short barreled lever gun.:bounce:

[GA1dad]

I suppose a 223 would be an "all around" caliber as well. Can you cast 22 caliber bullets??? 500 pieces of brass would last a lifetime when just used for hunting. And you could prolly load low powered small game rounds.

[JohnK3]

The 30-30 started life as a black powder powered cartridge and would work just fine.

This is incorrect information. The .30-30, aka .30 WCF, is America's first sporting (non-military) cartridge designed for smokeless powder.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.30_WCF

[Bill Mc]

I guess I learned something. Always thought it was 30 grains of black powder.

A little more history (http://www.leverguns.com/articles/3030history.htm)

But to the original subject. Just who know how to make "powder"

With Nic's rifle, all you need is powder lead and some replacement flints.

[will hunt 4 food]

The 45-70 he listed was a black powder cartridge though.

I agree with tv_racin_fan. Just find and old tire shop, they are usually glad to give you plenty of ammo.;)

The 45-70 also comes with its own loading data:bounce:

[will hunt 4 food]

What about a regular .45 cal smokepole, could you use some kind shot it it? Kind of like rat shot in a rimfire.

[tv_racin_fan]

Well guess I learned something as well as I thought it was 30 cal 30 grains...

You can shoot shot out of a BP rifle but there are some issues. IF you use a shot cup like a shotgun then the rifling will spin the cup and the shot which will result in having a range of about ten to twenty feet much like rat shot in a rimfire. If you dont you will have shot running afoul of the rifling which will deform the shot and cut down on accuracy. Which is why I suggested two guns, a small caliber rifle and a larger caliber musket or smoothbore. The smoothbore will be plenty accurate enough for larger game out to 100 yards or so and give the added advantage of working just like a shotgun with shot.

As to making the powder. I have been looking into that as it would happen. It's doesn't seem near as hard as some would believe nor as dangerous either since you work with the individual components until you have to mix them. Charcoal isn't so hard to make. Take some wood chips and put them into a metal can with a lid that you have made a couple of small holes in and set this in a fire. When the can really starts to smoke take it out and cover the holes. You can crush this any way you like but the best way is with a ball mill (rock tumbler gone heavy duty) you want this to turn into dust as fine as you can get it. Sulpher is a bit trickier but there are sulpher deposits all over and ways to distill it from other easier to find forms. Salt peter or some other very similar chemicals can be had pretty easily as well. Back in the day people would leach it out of bat dirt (dirt from the bottom of a cave with bats) or I believe you can leach it out of the manure and liquids from an outhouse.

http://www.dangerouslaboratories.org/foxfire5.html

http://www.musketeer.ch/blackpowder/recipe.html

http://www.musketeer.ch/blackpowder/homemade_bp.html

Hmm seems I had not remembered everything quite right.. No worries I'll figure it out when I finally get around to making some.

Home made powder wont be as powerful as what you can get from the store UNLESS you compress it.

[wildcatt]

black powder sounds easy untill you make it and it goes off in your face.many a powder factory went up.your better of to get primers,powder.cases,and molds to make bullets you dont need jacketed bullets.and get cals that are common.444 is not common and it ain't "cool"
22 lr,38/357,308.the bigger the bullet the more powder and lead you need.and you want to stay as quite as you can.:huh: :rolleyes:

[GA1dad]

444 is not common and it ain't "cool"

and you want to stay as quite as you can.:huh: :rolleyes:

Why is a 444 not "cool"?????

Quiet as I can?????? Remember, I'm not talking government takeoverhere.

If we have a serious depression, and no one is making any money to speak of. Ammo manufacturors are near out of business cause no one is buying, so they cut back how much they are making. Now what little bit of ammo that's available is too expensive to buy. For this scenario,,,, lets say a 50 count box of 22lr is bringing $50.

What would be the best chambering to own, if you had to (completley) fabricate your own ammunition to feed the family??

[Nicodemus]

I`d stay with a traditional flintlock rifle. Caliber wouldn`t matter, 32, 36 40, 45, or 50. 36 would probably suit me best. Although labeled a squirrel rifle, I would not be worried about shootin` anything in Georgia with it, if I needed to. With a little preparation, the rifle could be totally self sufficient.

[GA1dad]

Nic,
How is blackpowder pricing compared to smokless? If you wanted to buy a "keg I guess" with intent of it lasting your lifetime,,,,,,, how much would that run ya??

[tv_racin_fan]

"I'm not stock piling ammunition,,,,,,,, but I am aware of the rising cost of it. And I've been considering what I might choose if shooting/hunting just simply got too expensive."

Was how the thread started. So when powder is $200 a pound and primers are $200 a 1000 what exactly is your plan?

I was thinkin along the line of a SHTF scenario where a person can't buy powder and bullets. Again what exactly is your plan in this case?

It is true that many a powder plant went up but many more didn't. If they had all gone up there wouldn't be any powder available today.

If I could only have one gun I believe I'd choose a Brown Bess.

BP runs about $15 a pound, more if you only buy one or two and a bit less when you buy it in large lots. 50 pounds is the limit you can store at home.

http://www.powderinc.com/catalog/order.htm

I believe at 70 grains per shot, a pound of FFg will give you 100 shots. I paid $20 per pound at BPS for the last I bought. 100 ball cost me $13 and the lubed patches were about $4 per 100, flints were $1.25 and you use a couple for 100 shots so we're talkin about $40 for 100 shots. A bit more expensive than my 9mm range ammo at $9 per 50 round box but less than my 30-06 at $15 a 20 round box.

[GA1dad]

"I'm not stock piling ammunition,,,,,,,, but I am aware of the rising cost of it. And I've been considering what I might choose if shooting/hunting just simply got too expensive."

Was how the thread started. So when powder is $200 a pound and primers are $200 a 1000 what exactly is your plan?
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I've got no plan,,,,,,,,,,, still trying

Sorry if I've gotten off track.

Thanks for the pricing info on BP!!!!! You give a good comparison.

[mike bell]

When I run out of ammo, I'll still have my bow and traps