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dexrusjak
09-30-2010, 09:11 AM
What do they mean to Christians today?

Are they unique, different from other Old Testament law?

Are you bound to obey the 10?

Are you bound to obey all OT law?

Are you bound to any OT law?

Israel
09-30-2010, 09:44 AM
They are a revelation of the Lord Jesus Christ.
Consider each, ponder each, look into each and you will see Jesus.
Try to "do" any of them, apart from this, and you will discover what you are apart from God.

gtparts
09-30-2010, 02:05 PM
It is a partial description of God. The task of understanding the complexities of the infinite God of the universe are also infinite in scope. The revelation of God is and has been progressive. The Ten Commandments are indeed a "picture" of His nature and His guidance for His creation to live by. No one would conceive of building a computer without an operating system, a set of instructions. They outline the basis for the best possible relationship for mankind: between men and between man and God. They take us to the point of recognizing our inability to satisfy His requirements for a relationship with Him out of our own efforts.

In the abstract, the unholy cannot grasp the holy, the unmerciful cannot comprehend the merciful, and the unloving cannot understand the loving. Those terms are meaningless without demonstration, a mere compilation of letters and sounds.

Jesus is the Son of God and the perfect representation of God in flesh. His life and His words are the faithful demonstration of God's character. He not only demonstrates God perfectly, but provides us the only way to be in relationship with God. This is not to say He has a lesser divine nature, for Jesus and the Father are one. Those who see Jesus, see the Father.

What a marvelous way for God (spirit) to express Himself to mortal, flesh and blood, man!

Lowjack
09-30-2010, 05:04 PM
In Yeshua , I'm Free to Follow the Law.

ronpasley
09-30-2010, 05:58 PM
I don't have to obey any of them, but I choose to live by them because I love Him. Love changes all things it will cover your sin completely and free you from your chains.

Ronnie T
09-30-2010, 06:41 PM
Matt 5: 21"You have heard that it was said to the people long ago, 'Do not murder, and anyone who murders will be subject to judgment.' 22But I tell you that anyone who is angry with his brotherwill be subject to judgment.

I think the teachings of Jesus are a continuation and completion of the 10 commandments.

crackerdave
09-30-2010, 09:08 PM
There are really only two commandments,these days. Jesus said for His people to love God with all we got,and to love our "neighbor" as ourselves. If we live by that,all ten will be covered.

Lowjack
09-30-2010, 11:29 PM
Let's contemplate for a moment that the Commandments were done away with .

So that means that sin doesn't exist, right ?
As the word says where there is no law , there is no condemnation ? Right ?

So does that mean there are no sinners and therefore no need to believe in Jesus or God or anything else ?

FritzMichaels
10-01-2010, 12:20 AM
I'll make one post and then bugout (not gonna bother posting just to see the thread closed for no reason).

What is "iniquity"? the BlueLetterBible.com says (great resource btw)

1) the condition of without law
a) because ignorant of it
b) because of violating it
2) contempt and violation of law, iniquity, wickedness

What did Jesus have to say about this condition of being "without law"?

Matthew 21Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, (professing Christians) shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, (professing Christians) have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23And then will I profess unto them (lawless Christians), I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

There are numerous supporting verses on being "lawless" and what God thinks about it. He's not a fan. If you think you are under no law, you may want to search law and iniquity at the BLB.com

We are most certainly under the moral law. The ceremonial law was done away with. God hates every sin and we cannot remain in "willful" sin.

I think Psalms 119 gives a great summary of how all men should see Gods moral law and commandments.

here are a few verses from Psalm 119 2Blessed are they that keep his testimonies, and that seek him with the whole heart. 3They also do no iniquity: they walk in his ways. 53Horror hath taken hold upon me because of the wicked that forsake thy law. 77Let thy tender mercies come unto me, that I may live: for thy law is my delight.

If i remember correctly, David was a man after Gods own heart...

Ronnie T
10-01-2010, 12:34 AM
A couple of verses to discuss.
I'm going to think about them until tomorrow.


Galatians 3:24
So the law was put in charge to lead us to Christ that we might be justified by faith.

Galatians 6:2
Carry each other's burdens, and in this way you will fulfill the law of Christ

FritzMichaels
10-01-2010, 10:14 AM
Ronnie, I would love to discuss it, because i love to learn, and could gain a lot from these discussions, but you have the a crowd that sits on the sideline that start whining every time a good discussion gets going. so anyway, I appreciate your stance on grace. I really do. But there is other bible to consider. EX: Rom 7:12Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good. Jesus said, If you love me, keep my commandments. Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

Are we under the law for salvation? No. But we should love the law and do our best to keep it, because we love Christ and his comandments are not greivous to us....

It is my belief as i have moved around alot in my life and have tried hundreds of different churches from charismatic to catholic and everything in between that they just go crazy on "grace"... I am speaking of the protestant churches here. Grace, Grace, Grace and more grace.

Grace is great, there will be NOT ONE single person in heaven who got there without grace... but grace is just a small part of Christ. The way grace is taught these days in most churches is that that is the end all be all of Christianity... just say a 10 second prayer and you are now saved and full of grace... But it just dont work that way. Theres law, repentance, obedience, commands, holiness, the will of God and so on. Grace is just a part of the whole picture. But almost every church just focuses on grace. If you ask every person in heaven how they got there they will say grace but also, repentance, obedience, loving Christ, and faith. Anyway, I am rambling a will shut up now. Love discussing this with you. I dont know you but see you as a brother.

crackerdave
10-01-2010, 11:27 AM
Hey,Dex - this is your thread,right?:confused:

dexrusjak
10-01-2010, 12:07 PM
Hey,Dex - this is your thread,right?:confused:

If starting it makes it mine, then yes. Your point?

Ronnie T
10-01-2010, 01:41 PM
Ronnie, I would love to discuss it, because i love to learn, and could gain a lot from these discussions, but you have the a crowd that sits on the sideline that start whining every time a good discussion gets going. so anyway, I appreciate your stance on grace. I really do. But there is other bible to consider. EX: Rom 7:12Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good. Jesus said, If you love me, keep my commandments. Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

Are we under the law for salvation? No. But we should love the law and do our best to keep it, because we love Christ and his comandments are not greivous to us....

It is my belief as i have moved around alot in my life and have tried hundreds of different churches from charismatic to catholic and everything in between that they just go crazy on "grace"... I am speaking of the protestant churches here. Grace, Grace, Grace and more grace.

Grace is great, there will be NOT ONE single person in heaven who got there without grace... but grace is just a small part of Christ. The way grace is taught these days in most churches is that that is the end all be all of Christianity... just say a 10 second prayer and you are now saved and full of grace... But it just dont work that way. Theres law, repentance, obedience, commands, holiness, the will of God and so on. Grace is just a part of the whole picture. But almost every church just focuses on grace. If you ask every person in heaven how they got there they will say grace but also, repentance, obedience, loving Christ, and faith. Anyway, I am rambling a will shut up now. Love discussing this with you. I dont know you but see you as a brother.


If you're talking to RonnieT, you got me alllllllll wrong.
I completely agree with you're words above.
It is my life calling and ambition to live a perfect life before my Savior..... And God forgives me when I fail. When I often fail.

FritzMichaels
10-01-2010, 02:19 PM
If you're talking to RonnieT, you got me alllllllll wrong.
I completely agree with you're words above.
It is my life calling and ambition to live a perfect life before my Savior..... And God forgives me when I fail. When I often fail.

I was not referring to you as how could I do that if I dont know you?? :huh:

Man, some of you people really wear your Christianity on your sleeve around here... ruins any fun in posting here.

Ronnie T
10-01-2010, 04:44 PM
I was not referring to you as how could I do that if I dont know you?? :huh:

Man, some of you people really wear your Christianity on your sleeve around here... ruins any fun in posting here.

Don't get ruined.
I just thought you had read me incorrectly. :cool:

dexrusjak
10-01-2010, 06:53 PM
What makes these ten commandments more significant than the other multitude of commandments in the OT?

possum steak
10-01-2010, 07:15 PM
I don't have to obey any of them. Thing is, I want to.


I don't think that anyone can name one negative circumstance that can come from adhering to them.

apoint
10-01-2010, 07:21 PM
Don't get ruined.
I just thought you had read me incorrectly. :cool:

Ronnie and Fritz, I believe you are agreeing with each other. I too believe as Fritz has explained it.
Im saved thru grace and I keep His commandments to show my love for Jesus. The commandments tell me how to live, and anyone else that does not know Jesus.
Great point Possum.

GunnSmokeer
10-01-2010, 07:24 PM
I'm considering writing an article for publication in some mainstream, general-interest media on the subject of the Ten Commandments.

Specifically, the article would be about to what extent they are reflected in our laws of today. Not religious codes, but the Official Code of Georgia, caselaw, administrative law, etc.

Whenever Christians want to display the 10 Commandments in public, the ACLU types scream about how it's offensive to non-believers and, if done on public property, an impermissible government endorsement of religion.

The Christians always respond that our legal system is based on religious law, including much of the 10 Commandments. So it's part of our "legal history" and should be respected and celebrated as such. (Not as laws that the State demands you obey today, but as old law which shows our evolution as a society).

But I'm also wondering if the 10 Commandments were, like so many other ancient laws of the Old Testament, voided by the coming of Christ and His ministry as shown in the new testament? We don't follow rules like slaughtering a fatted calf on an altar. We don't kill adulterers, homosexuals, or people who get divorced (and remarry even!)

apoint
10-01-2010, 07:32 PM
I'm considering writing an article for publication in some mainstream, general-interest media on the subject of the Ten Commandments.

Specifically, the article would be about to what extent they are reflected in our laws of today. Not religious codes, but the Official Code of Georgia, caselaw, administrative law, etc.

Whenever Christians want to display the 10 Commandments in public, the ACLU types scream about how it's offensive to non-believers and, if done on public property, an impermissible government endorsement of religion.

The Christians always respond that our legal system is based on religious law, including much of the 10 Commandments. So it's part of our "legal history" and should be respected and celebrated as such. (Not as laws that the State demands you obey today, but as old law which shows our evolution as a society).

But I'm also wondering if the 10 Commandments were, like so many other ancient laws of the Old Testament, voided by the coming of Christ and His ministry as shown in the new testament? We don't follow rules like slaughtering a fatted calf on an altar. We don't kill adulterers, homosexuals, or people who get divorced (and remarry even!)

Slaughtering the calf's arnt needed because of Jesus.
mosaic law was for barbarians, but I think we still have them around today.

earl
10-01-2010, 11:03 PM
Slaughtering the calf's arnt needed because of Jesus.
mosaic law was for barbarians, but I think we still have them around today.

Haven't heard Jews called barbarians in a while.

Biblical law
See also: Biblical law
Besides the narrative, the Torah also contains statements or principles of law and ethics. Collectively these laws, usually called biblical law or commandments, are sometimes referred to as the Law of Moses (Torat Moshe תּוֹרַת־מֹשֶׁה), Mosaic Law or simply the Law.

Ronnie T
10-02-2010, 12:16 AM
I'm considering writing an article for publication in some mainstream, general-interest media on the subject of the Ten Commandments.

Specifically, the article would be about to what extent they are reflected in our laws of today. Not religious codes, but the Official Code of Georgia, caselaw, administrative law, etc.

Whenever Christians want to display the 10 Commandments in public, the ACLU types scream about how it's offensive to non-believers and, if done on public property, an impermissible government endorsement of religion.

The Christians always respond that our legal system is based on religious law, including much of the 10 Commandments. So it's part of our "legal history" and should be respected and celebrated as such. (Not as laws that the State demands you obey today, but as old law which shows our evolution as a society).

But I'm also wondering if the 10 Commandments were, like so many other ancient laws of the Old Testament, voided by the coming of Christ and His ministry as shown in the new testament? We don't follow rules like slaughtering a fatted calf on an altar. We don't kill adulterers, homosexuals, or people who get divorced (and remarry even!)

As a Christian, I don't consider the 10 Commandments a part of Christian Doctrine, except that it represented the Law that Jesus himself followed.
The teachings of Jesus and then the teaching of His apostles brought God's Law to the Jews up to date, and made it relevent to me.

Do I now disregard those 10? No. I don't disregard anything of the Old. But I use it in accordance with the Gospel of Christ.

Wasn't it Peter(?) who said that "all scripture is inspired and useful". I think at the time he said that, he was referring to the Old Testament scriptures also.

Israel
10-02-2010, 11:13 AM
I have often used this analogy, and please bear with me in a little foolishness.
The law is spiritual and perfect.
Like a broadcast from God.
Actually, it is a broadcast from God.
But the receiver is faulty, unable to understand "spirit".

It is not unlike trying to interpret a foreign language...but worse, much worse...for it reveals the fault in the receiver perfectly. We think we understand. And then go about trying to "do" it...and get as far from the intent as we could possibly be.
But this serves the purpose to show us we understand nothing. (Sin, that it might be exceedingly sinful)

A rich and powerful Australian man employed me for a while. He was great to work for, and very awesome. Kind to me in every way.

One day he told me to put the "billy on the boil" and I was puzzled. I didn't know why he would do this, but I did my best to obey. I didn't want to show how ignorant I was, so I set out to do what I thought he wanted.
I found a young man named William, hogtied him, found a huge pot, filled it with water, put plenty of heat under it till it was roiling and threw Billy in.
Then I called the boss and proudly told him it was ready. I had done everything he had asked, even though it took a lot of effort, and, as weird as it seemed to me, he'd surely appreciate all my efforts.

He was horrified.
Wept bitterly at what I had done.
For he was a good and kind man.

Had I simply stopped...had I simply said...
"what do you mean by all this..." I wouldn't have broken his heart.
Instead, it was far more important for me to show I do right by the boss man.

David understood something. David touched something of God that made him a man after "his own heart"...and because of this the psalms are replete with magnificent revelations, which, even if David did not quite grasp all their significance in total, still knew the joy of the intimacy that birthed them.

And David ate the shewbread. And was held blameless.
And David wrote "happy is the man whose sins are forgiven, to whom the Lord does not impute iniquity"

He who is forgiven much, loves much.
David loved much.

The law is not given so we can talk to one another about how we try to keep it.
Or worse, like pharisees, make a show of it.

The law is given to show us the One who never stole, never committed adultery, never bore false witness, had no strange God, keeps the sabbath perfectly, and is deliriously content with his own wife so he never dreams of coveting another...etc.

The law, as everything that has ever issued from God's mouth is not to get us to "do" something...but to see something.
In the seeing is contained all the doing God has ever wanted.
God has always wanted us to see him as he is...the "trying to do" came in after we had rejected his image and likeness as being sufficient for us.
So he sent another in his image and likeness...but who this time did not listen to the lie..."You shall not surely die", but instead said, "I have come to die...and I will"

crackerdave
10-03-2010, 04:20 PM
If starting it makes it mine, then yes. Your point?

There is no "point." It was a question.Never mind.

gtparts
10-03-2010, 05:00 PM
As a Christian, I don't consider the 10 Commandments a part of Christian Doctrine, except that it represented the Law that Jesus himself followed.
The teachings of Jesus and then the teaching of His apostles brought God's Law to the Jews up to date, and made it relevent to me.

Do I now disregard those 10? No. I don't disregard anything of the Old. But I use it in accordance with the Gospel of Christ.

Wasn't it Peter(?) who said that "all scripture is inspired and useful". I think at the time he said that, he was referring to the Old Testament scriptures also.

Paul to Timothy, I believe.

Israel
10-04-2010, 08:21 AM
Paul to Timothy, I believe.

BTW, have I told you how much I like your sig?
How true it is, the "props" are not needed for the truth.

Eph 1:1.
You are what you are by the grace of God.

jason4445
10-04-2010, 05:32 PM
This is another example of hokey-pokey - trippy trot through the Old Testament snagging up what you like and ignoring the rest. I always thought that since the Ten Commandments were the one and only thing God actually wrote and gave to a human being they are the most important thing in the Bible. Follow those then worry about everything else.

Grace is more important lets look at the Sermon on the Mount where Jesus said

"You must not think I have come to abolish the Law (including the Ten Commandments) or the prophets. I have not come to abolish them but to complete them. Indeed, I assure you that, while Heaven and earth last, the Law will not lose a single dot or comma until its purpose is complete. This means that whoever now relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches men to do the same will himself be called least in Heaven.