Bart D. Erhman

1gr8bldr · Jan 3, 2011

I just recently came across his site, While I have for the last decade been aware of bible inconsistences, I was surprised to see that he pointed out several that I was unaware of. I spent in excess of 10hrs going through his material by clicking on his radio/video links off his homepage. I'm surprised that I've never heard of him before. For my first question; Is he popular among atheist? I first thought that since he found errors that he concluded that all of it was false, which is not the only option, but upon further investigation, it seems that the problem of evil and suffering ultimately lead to his deconversion. Just fishing for some opinions of those familiar with Erhman.

1gr8bldr · Jan 3, 2011

1gr8bldr said:
I just recently came across his site, While I have for the last decade been aware of bible inconsistences, I was surprised to see that he pointed out several that I was unaware of. I spent in excess of 10hrs going through his material by clicking on his radio/video links off his homepage. I'm surprised that I've never heard of him before. For my first question; Is he popular among atheist? I first thought that since he found errors that he concluded that all of it was false, which is not the only option, but upon further investigation, it seems that the problem of evil and suffering ultimately lead to his deconversion. Just fishing for some opinions of those familiar with Erhman.

Correction; I don't recall Erhman speaking of evil, just suffering. I don't think that suffering would prove that God doesn't exist as was Erhmans conclusion but I can see how some would question "the God of love" as spoken of in the bible.

ambush80 · Jan 3, 2011

1gr8bldr said:
Correction; I don't recall Erhman speaking of evil, just suffering. I don't think that suffering would prove that God doesn't exist as was Erhmans conclusion but I can see how some would question "the God of love" as spoken of in the bible.

I'm unfamiliar with him. But you've piqued my curiosity. Pick a specific subject that he discusses and I will read about it and we can hash it out.

1gr8bldr · Jan 3, 2011

ambush80 said:
I'm unfamiliar with him. But you've piqued my curiosity. Pick a specific subject that he discusses and I will read about it and we can hash it out.

You can listen or watch his debates from his home page. He does have several books but I suspect that his best smoking guns are used in his talks or debates

Madman · Jan 3, 2011

1gr8bldr said:
I first thought that since he found errors that he concluded that all of it was false, which is not the only option, but upon further investigation, it seems that the problem of evil and suffering ultimately lead to his deconversion. Just fishing for some opinions of those familiar with Erhman.

I have not read much he has written, but from what I have read he appears to be from the same cloth as so many who are unable to reconcile evil with a loving god.

He then proceeds to attempt to pick apart ANYTHING that does not appear to be in agreement on a superficial level. Every argument I have ever seen by him has been put forth and refuted many times by many people.

I have yet to see any argument that would change the "theology" of Christianity, each argument is simply put forth to place doubt from a grammatical and translation stand point. He puts forth arguments yet when answered, I have never seen him admit that the answer may be a solution to his question, he simply moves to the next point.

At least Christopher Hitchens is honest enough to admit there is some chance of a creator.

1gr8bldr · Jan 3, 2011

I don't agree with some of his conclusions or interpertations but since he is now not affilated with any one group, he has no motivation to sway anyone. He is "tradition free". So his historian attitude in which he presents his opinions about his findings are rare. Most people today, as much as I admire their innocense, somehow think God wrote the bible and handed it off to Peter to which he gave to the church. They don't realize how many lost their lives over the raging debates as uninspired men, 2 and 3 hundred years later picked and chose which writings best described their own beliefs and then banned all else and banished and killed everyone who did not agree. There I go, getting all worked up, again. Anyway, Erhman discourses on this topic also. I think I might buy his book simply for the early church development aspect.

Madman · Jan 3, 2011

1gr8bldr said:
but since he is now not affilated with any one group, he has no motivation to sway anyone.

He's got you convinced to buy his book hasn't he.

Just like politics, FOLLOW THE MONEY.

1gr8bldr · Jan 3, 2011

Madman said:
I have not read much he has written, but from what I have read he appears to be from the same cloth as so many who are unable to reconcile evil with a loving god.

He then proceeds to attempt to pick apart ANYTHING that does not appear to be in agreement on a superficial level. Every argument I have ever seen by him has been put forth and refuted many times by many people.

I have yet to see any argument that would change the "theology" of Christianity, each argument is simply put forth to place doubt from a grammatical and translation stand point. He puts forth arguments yet when answered, I have never seen him admit that the answer may be a solution to his question, he simply moves to the next point.

At least Christopher Hitchens is honest enough to admit there is some chance of a creator.

I agree that lots of his material can have a logical answer. I observed that rather quickly, yet when we try so hard to make it fit, it becomes an issue of probability. Now, if we find only one unreliable instance, then are probability figures skyrocket since it only takes one to prove that the bible isn't perfect. Take for example, Judas death. Many try to say that Judas's rope must have broke and he fell and was busted into and his guts came out because of the difference of his death accounts. One being that he hanged himself, another that he fell headlong and his guts came out. That would be possible. But we must also look at more. ???Is it likely that after throwing the money back that Judas did not go directly out and hang himself, but waited for the scribes to go out and buy the field and then he went and hanged himself in that field. I can overlook the difference of the scribes bought the field contrary to Judas buying the field said by Peter as an expression but with the recorded evidence, Judas had to hang himself, rope had to break in the same field that Judas or the scribes bought with the thirty pices of silver. Probability, not good.

apoint · Jan 3, 2011

I read on Bart's bull and don't find his rhetoric anything new.
Nothing new under the sun. He just digs up old junk, he's not even original. What a farce.

Madman · Jan 3, 2011

1gr8bldr said:
Probability, not good.

If you read Matthew's account it seems God ordained the purchase of the field years before Judas, and Jeremiah the prophet spoke of it.

The majority comes back to what you choose to believe, what the evidence shows, and how God has worked in your life.

Madman · Jan 3, 2011

Madman said:
He's got you convinced to buy his book hasn't he.

Just like politics, FOLLOW THE MONEY.

1gr8bldr,

do you see his motivation yet?

Madman · Jan 3, 2011

1gr8bldr said:
I agree that lots of his material can have a logical answer. I observed that rather quickly, yet when we try so hard to make it fit, it becomes an issue of probability.

My last post was not a "jab" I'm just fun ‘in with that one. The point being that EVERYONE has an agenda.

I will agree with you to a point. That being that on the surface there appears to be some discrepancies; however I am not a linguist nor a Hebrew or Greek scholar so I am forced to yield to their knowledge on the subject.

Over the years I have been forced to “lay aside” some verses until God has seen fit to reveal their meaning to me. I have no problem with that. I still have a few that pop up every now and then. For years the Corinthian’s passages about women’s hair made no sense but after a lengthy study on Corinth it fit perfectly.

What I do know is what the God of the Bible has promised to do. I know what he has done in my life, what he has done in other’s lives, he is good and faithful.

atlashunter · Jan 3, 2011

Madman said:
He's got you convinced to buy his book hasn't he.

Just like politics, FOLLOW THE MONEY.

Madman said:
1gr8bldr,

do you see his motivation yet?

Sure you want to go there?

atlashunter · Jan 3, 2011

apoint said:
I read on Bart's bull and don't find his rhetoric anything new.
Nothing new under the sun. He just digs up old junk, he's not even original. What a farce.

I doubt you've read much. If you had you would know that he doesn't claim to be original. He is putting out information that has been widely known to biblical scholars for many years but isn't taught in the pulpit (one can only guess why) in a format friendly to the layperson, and he says as much.

atlashunter · Jan 3, 2011

Madman said:
I have not read much he has written, but from what I have read he appears to be from the same cloth as so many who are unable to reconcile evil with a loving god.

He then proceeds to attempt to pick apart ANYTHING that does not appear to be in agreement on a superficial level. Every argument I have ever seen by him has been put forth and refuted many times by many people.

I have yet to see any argument that would change the "theology" of Christianity, each argument is simply put forth to place doubt from a grammatical and translation stand point. He puts forth arguments yet when answered, I have never seen him admit that the answer may be a solution to his question, he simply moves to the next point.

At least Christopher Hitchens is honest enough to admit there is some chance of a creator.

As with apoint, it is obvious you haven't read any of his books. Since you are passing judgment on his work while still ignorant of it I can only chalk it up to a closed mind.

1gr8bldr · Jan 3, 2011

Madman said:
My last post was not a "jab" I'm just fun ‘in with that one. The point being that EVERYONE has an agenda.

I will agree with you to a point. That being that on the surface there appears to be some discrepancies; however I am not a linguist nor a Hebrew or Greek scholar so I am forced to yield to their knowledge on the subject.

Over the years I have been forced to “lay aside” some verses until God has seen fit to reveal their meaning to me. I have no problem with that. I still have a few that pop up every now and then. For years the Corinthian’s passages about women’s hair made no sense but after a lengthy study on Corinth it fit perfectly.

What I do know is what the God of the Bible has promised to do. I know what he has done in my life, what he has done in other’s lives, he is good and faithful.

I did not take it as a jab, I'm sure that money had something to do with it. By the way, I like to laugh and I don't get offended easily. Lots of the posters, what I'd better term as "newer to the faith" take offense at my views so I am not offended because opinions sometimes do change over time. But you seem to have an open mind, firmly grounded. I too wondered about that verse but I think I understand now. I appreciate the discussion and look foward to more.

1gr8bldr · Jan 3, 2011

Hey Atlashunter, them pics, that's funny and the truth

atlashunter · Jan 3, 2011

Madman said:
At least Christopher Hitchens is honest enough to admit there is some chance of a creator.

So does Ehrman. I've seen very few non-believers who would disagree. Now are you honest enough to admit there is some chance there could be leprechauns?

1gr8bldr · Jan 3, 2011

1gr8bldr said:
I agree that lots of his material can have a logical answer. I observed that rather quickly, yet when we try so hard to make it fit, it becomes an issue of probability. Now, if we find only one unreliable instance, then are probability figures skyrocket since it only takes one to prove that the bible isn't perfect. Take for example, Judas death. Many try to say that Judas's rope must have broke and he fell and was busted into and his guts came out because of the difference of his death accounts. One being that he hanged himself, another that he fell headlong and his guts came out. That would be possible. But we must also look at more. ???Is it likely that after throwing the money back that Judas did not go directly out and hang himself, but waited for the scribes to go out and buy the field and then he went and hanged himself in that field. I can overlook the difference of the scribes bought the field contrary to Judas buying the field said by Peter as an expression but with the recorded evidence, Judas had to hang himself, rope had to break in the same field that Judas or the scribes bought with the thirty pices of silver. Probability, not good.

Been thinking about this. What may be more likely, assuming my NIV has "where he fell" meaning that Judas fell in the field [same] is that Judas hung himself, then the rope broke later, he fell into a field where his guts poured out and then the scribes purchased that same field with the money that he returned. It is possible that the field was so offensive to the community, called the field of blood, that the scribes saw this as the only use of it. So did he hang himself in this field? Maybe????

apoint · Jan 3, 2011

atlashunter said:
I doubt you've read much. If you had you would know that he doesn't claim to be original. He is putting out information that has been widely known to biblical scholars for many years but isn't taught in the pulpit (one can only guess why) in a format friendly to the layperson, and he says as much.

I have read plenty enough to see he spreads the same garbage that atheist love to feed on. Nothing original about him, he just gets rich off other atheist rhetoric.
I'm smart enough not to waste much time with his garbage. Why would the pulpit teach his insanity? Glad to know you put your faith in man.

Bart D. Erhman

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