gordon 2
Senior Member
While reading a very interesting AAA tread on the proofs and evidences or lack thereof of God's existance, it occurs to me that christians when talking of faith do not always talk about the same thing.
For example, there is the kind of faith whereby people will "step out" of reason, and senses and evidences into a belief in a devinity. This they call faith. I find that the reward or carrot of this kind faith is Salvation from a temporal, dual world onto eternity or the eternal.
Another example of christian faith which is dearer to me is that faith is a "stepping out" on the commandments of God.
Note that as a christian I take the Sermom on the Mount, the life of Christ and the Gospel of the Good News to be as important if not more so than the original Ten Commandments given to the Hebrews.
Now these commandments are opposed to our natures. What accounts for this opposition some will say that it is because we are fallen or we are party to a fallen world.
Or some will say perhaps more simply we are social predators not unlike other predators in nature. We have a complex brain unlike other predators--which permits more complex communications and extra competition unique to our group.
Now as a christian when I step out in faith, I step out of this reality or natural-predatory reality--and into the world of God's Commandments. This is for me to step out in faith.
Now how is God proved by faith? For me God is proved by faith because His commandments work!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And these his commandments that work!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! are the essential and the reality of His Holy Spirit. God becomes real to me as I step out and do...according to His will.
And I do this "by faith" not for salvation from a release from the temporal or fallen world and for a salvation reward of eternal worship.
I do it because I just like being with God. When I did not know God for his consels, how could I have known that knowing Him was the reward?
God is proved by faith. Faith in God's Holy Spirit, in the God of Jacob, trust in Jesus is to walk out on the commandments or councils of God.
Now proof is in the pudding. Predators and man need food, shelter and security. Now which has worked better for ourselves and our societies? --the laws of the jungles, apartieds, linchings, quarrels, impatience, genocides, wars which we have tackled by our base impulses? To jungles we have given jungles. To apartieds we give apartied. To quarrels we quarreled. To impatience we sent a hand in the face. To wars we made better wars.
How about the power of a lone stranger amist all the clamour? How about Isaiah hammering on Justice to his society. How about Jesus saying He had his Father in his heart to God's very Chosen People of all thing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
How about Martin Luther King stepping out on Grace? What was the outcome? Walking out, steppin out on a few simple words of God achieved what? Compared to two thousand yrs of man's history, thru the use of reason and logic, thru politics, thru all kinds of social enterprizes, Kings, Presidents, Do Gooder Societies... What worked?
What worked was God's commandments to His people.
So does God exist? Is the Pope catholic?
For example, there is the kind of faith whereby people will "step out" of reason, and senses and evidences into a belief in a devinity. This they call faith. I find that the reward or carrot of this kind faith is Salvation from a temporal, dual world onto eternity or the eternal.
Another example of christian faith which is dearer to me is that faith is a "stepping out" on the commandments of God.
Note that as a christian I take the Sermom on the Mount, the life of Christ and the Gospel of the Good News to be as important if not more so than the original Ten Commandments given to the Hebrews.
Now these commandments are opposed to our natures. What accounts for this opposition some will say that it is because we are fallen or we are party to a fallen world.
Or some will say perhaps more simply we are social predators not unlike other predators in nature. We have a complex brain unlike other predators--which permits more complex communications and extra competition unique to our group.
Now as a christian when I step out in faith, I step out of this reality or natural-predatory reality--and into the world of God's Commandments. This is for me to step out in faith.
Now how is God proved by faith? For me God is proved by faith because His commandments work!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And these his commandments that work!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! are the essential and the reality of His Holy Spirit. God becomes real to me as I step out and do...according to His will.
And I do this "by faith" not for salvation from a release from the temporal or fallen world and for a salvation reward of eternal worship.
I do it because I just like being with God. When I did not know God for his consels, how could I have known that knowing Him was the reward?
God is proved by faith. Faith in God's Holy Spirit, in the God of Jacob, trust in Jesus is to walk out on the commandments or councils of God.
Now proof is in the pudding. Predators and man need food, shelter and security. Now which has worked better for ourselves and our societies? --the laws of the jungles, apartieds, linchings, quarrels, impatience, genocides, wars which we have tackled by our base impulses? To jungles we have given jungles. To apartieds we give apartied. To quarrels we quarreled. To impatience we sent a hand in the face. To wars we made better wars.
How about the power of a lone stranger amist all the clamour? How about Isaiah hammering on Justice to his society. How about Jesus saying He had his Father in his heart to God's very Chosen People of all thing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
How about Martin Luther King stepping out on Grace? What was the outcome? Walking out, steppin out on a few simple words of God achieved what? Compared to two thousand yrs of man's history, thru the use of reason and logic, thru politics, thru all kinds of social enterprizes, Kings, Presidents, Do Gooder Societies... What worked?
What worked was God's commandments to His people.
So does God exist? Is the Pope catholic?
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