bullethead
Of the hard cast variety
Touchy subject and I mean no disrespect towards anyone's way of life. What is the Bible's/God's views of homosexuals? If their acts are considered a sin, why create them KNOWING that?
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Serious question,
- Thread starter bullethead
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TripleXBullies
Senior Member
From what I learned in the first 20 years of my life it is wrong and a sin.
I work with several people that have the lifestyle. I have worked with some that I detest for their daily actions. Several that I am around frequently still are perfectly moral people (other than that, if you consider it immoral). I don't mind socializing with them. I don't mind my daughter around them. They aren't best friends of mine, not for that reason.
A likely response might be that homosexuality is created by man's free will. God gave us all free will to create whatever sins we wanted.
Might I extend this thread further? If he created free will and sins are because of free will, then why was man created perfectly to begin with and sin didn't occur until man ate from the wrong tree? Is there a disconnect there?
I work with several people that have the lifestyle. I have worked with some that I detest for their daily actions. Several that I am around frequently still are perfectly moral people (other than that, if you consider it immoral). I don't mind socializing with them. I don't mind my daughter around them. They aren't best friends of mine, not for that reason.
A likely response might be that homosexuality is created by man's free will. God gave us all free will to create whatever sins we wanted.
Might I extend this thread further? If he created free will and sins are because of free will, then why was man created perfectly to begin with and sin didn't occur until man ate from the wrong tree? Is there a disconnect there?
VisionCasting
Senior Member
That's a good, and a common question, but you need to widen the audience a little.
According to the Bible, God's view of all mankind, without regard to sexual preference, is that they are sinners, and therefore separated from a relationship with Him, the Holy God. The Bible teaches that it's only through faith in Christ that any man is reconciled to God.
Gay or not, lifestyle decision or born that way, celibate from birth, whatever. It's ultimately irrelevant without Christ.
That's the Biblical take on God's disposition as I discern it.
IMHO, Christians spend too much time majoring in the minors on this topic.
Hope it helps.
According to the Bible, God's view of all mankind, without regard to sexual preference, is that they are sinners, and therefore separated from a relationship with Him, the Holy God. The Bible teaches that it's only through faith in Christ that any man is reconciled to God.
Gay or not, lifestyle decision or born that way, celibate from birth, whatever. It's ultimately irrelevant without Christ.
That's the Biblical take on God's disposition as I discern it.
IMHO, Christians spend too much time majoring in the minors on this topic.
Hope it helps.
Greaserbilly
Senior Member
People have either mistranslated deliberately or misunderstood various injunctions about only being with a woman in a woman's bed, not being a male temple prostitute, etc. to mean that homosexuality as we understand it in the modern day to be wrong.
In fact, one of the biggest "bashing" verses uses two words - MALAKOI and ARSENOKOITES - the former means "temple prostitute" and the latter is of unknown meaning. It's only known use is in two places - in the Bible in that verse, and also by a Greek Bishop some times later complaining that men committed that sin with their wives.
In fact, one of the biggest "bashing" verses uses two words - MALAKOI and ARSENOKOITES - the former means "temple prostitute" and the latter is of unknown meaning. It's only known use is in two places - in the Bible in that verse, and also by a Greek Bishop some times later complaining that men committed that sin with their wives.
centerpin fan
Senior Member
He didn't create people sinful. He created people with free will. Some people used that free will to choose the sin of homosexuality. Others used it to choose other sins.
Greaserbilly
Senior Member
Centerpin, when did you choose to be straight?
TripleXBullies
Senior Member
So specifically stated here, the bible has apparent mistranslations.
Greaserbilly
Senior Member
Is it really a newsflash that people have been using the Bible to their own ends?
You're right that if the Bible is read the way some people read it, then God creates things a certain way just to destroy them.
Some have decided therefore that in the face of any and all empirical evidence to the contrary, that homosexuality is a "lifestyle choice", something people decide (note that they never consider choosing to be straight. Ever.) and therefore that it is a deliberately chosen sin.
OR
They read the Bible in its original language and realise "wait a second, not quite".
In the case of the word ARSENOKOITES, it's got no meaning outside of two people using it. And it isn't as if Greek didn't have tons of terms for gayness. People have shied away saying "well, Paul wasn't a Greek, he was searching for the word in question". The word itself means "SOFT BEDS". How that has anything to do with "man and other man" is beyond me.
TripleXBullies
Senior Member
So what do you think god's intent was for those kinds of things making it to the bible?
atlashunter
Senior Member
Along the same lines, if the reason people sin is because God gave them free will and there will be no sin in heaven what does that say about free will in heaven?
TripleXBullies
Senior Member
I've never thought about it this way, but it does seem to be a good point. I definitely have the internal attraction to the opposite gender, but I do make the choice to pursue it.
For me it's definitely not a choice at all for me not to pursue guys. So it may be better to argue that. It's kind of a choice to be straight, it's definitely not a choice that I'm not homosexual. I'm just not to begin with.
centerpin fan
Senior Member
Ronnie T
Ol' Retired Mod
I shouldn't lie; I shouldn't murder; I shouldn't sleep with my neighbor's wife; and I should not have sex with another man.
There are things involved in the subject that confuse me. Things I don't quite understand. Are homosexuals born that way? Did they indeed not have a choice?
But ultimately, God's command and God's will trumps what anyone else thinks is right or wrong.
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Greaserbilly
Senior Member
Right.
So let's look at what actions are prohibited in the Bible.
1) Don't lie in the bed of a woman with another man (Leviticus). Sometimes translated as "as with a woman".
Look at the rest of Leviticus - only plant grapes with grapes, wheat with wheat, etc. Don't put an ox and another animal in the same yoke, etc. No two dissimilar theads in the same cloth.
2) Don't be a temple prostitute. In the OT this is explicit for women and men - in the NT for men.
Doesn't sound to me like there's anything else there.
Now, some people might pull up Romans, but you need to read the context there. People started worshipping a pagan fertility worship, not God - that whole "temple prostitution" again. So God CORRUPTS their ritual by turning them on themselves not the opposite gender.
Greaserbilly
Senior Member
Right after watching this:
Hat tip to pnome who came up with this first.
Oh, so if you'd seen an attractive man in a similar scene first, you'd have been gay?
Or was it that you're straight, so when you saw that you reacted to it.
centerpin fan
Senior Member
There is nothing in the context of Romans 1 that even remotely suggests that. This is just another example of people trying to explain away a completely unambiguous passage of scripture.
atlashunter
Senior Member
centerpin fan
Senior Member
No, that's one sin I'm not tempted by at all.
What about you? Are you defending homosexuality because you are a homosexual?
Greaserbilly
Senior Member
You're absolutely correct, it IS unambiguous.
For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools 23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like a mortal human being and birds and animals and reptiles.
This is a reference to pagan fertility worship.
centerpin fan
Senior Member
Now that's a funny typo! It is a typo isn't it Ronnie???
Very similar to the first edition of the King James Bible where it said, "thou shalt commit adultery".
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