Help me understand !!!

[Jody Hawk]

How do you feel about a preacher rufusing to marry a couple where the bride or groom or both have been previously married. What if they have been married for 20 years and want to renew their vows and he still refuses to perform the ceremony because they were both previously married? How does God view these marriages? Both me and Rhonda have been previously married. I was lost when I was married the first time. I've been saved and baptised since I've been married to Rhonda. Sin is sin and God forgave that sin in my eyes. I'm struggling with this, help me understand. :huh:

[CAL]

Jody,

In my eyes I think we as individuals are too quick to judge.I know you already know the Bible tells us to"Judge not,least we be judged by the same merit we judge".I personally feel like I don't have to answer to no man,only God above.That being said I also feel like if I have prayed to God to guide me in a decision and feel like he has directed my decision,then who is man to judge me.From your post,I think Rhonda has been a gift from God to guide you in the proper direction to become a child of his.Only you know what your relationship with God is,I can not determine this and neither can a preacher.JMHO I might have to look for another preacher.

[Woody's Janitor]

This is a tough one. Jody, you know where you and Rhonda are, at this point, with the Lord. Don't let one man's decision tear you down. I would be doing a lot of praying. Take care and my prayers are sent.

[Jody Hawk]

I think Rhonda has been a gift from God to guide you in the proper direction to become a child of his.

No doubt about that one Alex !!!!!! I was on a road to ruin when I met Rhonda. I know without a doubt that God intended for us to be together all along.

[Gator1679]

Good question, but i believe it is up to the individual Pastor. In my opinion if they are both Christians now, and have gone through my pre-marital counseling- and have made the committment to make this time different than i dont have a problem with it. I have a much bigger problem though with a Christian and non-christian trying to marry. I won't perform that one.

[Dixie Dawg]

Well Jody, if you figure it out, I hope you'll pass it on to the rest of us :D

I don't think any pastor has the right to judge who can and cannot be married OR has the right to say what God does and doesn't recognize.

After all, isn't part of the vows "what GOD has joined together, let no man put asunder"? If God joined you and your wife together (which I would say you believe He did!) then why would a pastor try to keep you from being married? Either ALL of your sins were 'cancelled out' when you became a Christian, or they weren't.... seems a bit hypocritical of a pastor to deny your marriage to me!

Good luck to both of you, and just remember that God doesn't need a piece of paper OR a ceremony to make you and your wife one flesh :) That comes from the heart!

[Dawg In the Swamp]

How do you feel about a preacher rufusing to marry a couple where the bride or groom or both have been previously married. What if they have been married for 20 years and want to renew their vows and he still refuses to perform the ceremony because they were both previously married? How does God view these marriages? Both me and Rhonda have been previously married. I was lost when I was married the first time. I've been saved and baptised since I've been married to Rhonda. Sin is sin and God forgave that sin in my eyes. I'm struggling with this, help me understand. :huh:


Ask another preacher and get hitched.

[David Mills]

Jody, I know what the Bible says about marriage and divorce, we have debated it a number of times in this forum. Though God does not look favorably upon divorce, I believe there are but just a few exceptions that Scripture justifies it, infidelity is the one situation that comes to mind. There are also Scripture that says if any man that marries a divorced woman then he is guilty of adultery.

I don't know your situation or your wife's and I am not going to judge either of you. But, there is Scripture and I believe it's in Hebrews; it basically says that even if you approve of a sin then you are as guilty of that sin. Many pastors view any marriage of divorced people as adultery and if they have a part of that marriage, that would be the same as approval of it.

I really don't know how God views a marriage before one becomes a Christian. One thing is for certain, is that He forgives and His grace is sufficient. I wouldn't worry too much about it if you are certain about your relationship with Christ, no man can come between you and Him.

[Jeff Phillips]

Sounds like this Preacher is taking himself WAY too seriously and needs to lighten up!

[David Mills]

This is actually fairly common especially among the more conservative denominations.

[Dana Young]

Jody,
David Mills has given you the best answer. I don't think the pastor is judging anyone except himself and we have to judge ourselves lest we be judged. I couldn't preform the ceremony either for the simple reason as David stated. now I am not judging anyone nor is this pastor we are simply not taking part in something that is against our beliefs, thats not saying the marraige is right or wrong, we are just staying away from the chance that if we take part we might not be able to reach somone else because of it. Now you might say the pastor has lost your respect but even if your beliefs are different you should respect his decision and find someone else to do the service. I believe we use difference of minor beliefs as an excuse to get away from some bigger more important things.
Remember the only really important doctrine is Jesus coming to live as a man to show us it is possible to live a perfect life, dying for us to pay a sin debt we could not pay and rising to the father to prepare a place for us so that where he is we can be also.
We need to be very careful to not judge someone else just because they have a different opinion of doctrine than we do. Read I Corinthians chappter 1,2, and 3 and see what paul was telling the church at corinth. Basially that Gods wisdom is higher than our wisdom and there is somethings that only God Knows and has not revealed to us yet. somethings we will never know till he takes us home. so don't chastise someone for sticking to their beliefs unless they are contrary to the life of Jesus.
May God bless
Dana

[SBG]

How do you feel about a preacher rufusing to marry a couple where the bride or groom or both have been previously married. What if they have been married for 20 years and want to renew their vows and he still refuses to perform the ceremony because they were both previously married? How does God view these marriages? Both me and Rhonda have been previously married. I was lost when I was married the first time. I've been saved and baptised since I've been married to Rhonda. Sin is sin and God forgave that sin in my eyes. I'm struggling with this, help me understand. :huh:

If you were not saved when you were married the first time, you were not married in the sight of God.

[David Mills]

I don’t want what I am about to say to be misunderstood. I’ve met Jody and believe he is a fine person and I have no doubt that he has a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. It’s not my place to make such a judgment one way or the other concerning anyone’s salvation.

But, it seems to me that, by calling the pastor a hypocrite, that it is a hypocritical judgment to make such a statement. Why not look at the Biblical foundation that the pastor is using in his decision making, he didn’t condemn anyone to “heck”. Someone tell me where his decision is unbiblical. Please don’t come back with something abstract like “judge not less ye be judged”. I don’t believe he is necessarily judging Jody or anyone else in a similar situation, no more than the pastor saying that homosexuality is wrong.

Now, you can criticize me for challenging any of you, but you still haven’t provided a biblical explanation. I’m not saying what the pastor said or did was right or wrong, I saying that we need to search God’s word for the answer instead of relying on our own worldly understandings and/or beliefs.

I sometimes wonder about not being a REAL Christian when one gets married. Even though I was married in a church, at the time I had not surrendered myself to Christ. Since I have become a Christian, does God recognize my marriage? We haven’t had another wedding ceremony. So, what constitutes marriage in God’s eyes? (Maybe that would be a good topic for another thread).

[SBG]

Marriage in God's eyes can only be between two believers. Therefore, if a lost person marries another lost person, they are not married spiritually. If a believer marries a non-believer, they are not spiritually married in the eyes of God.

In Jody's case, he needs to explain this to the Pastor. Since he was lost at the time of the first marriage, he was married only in the sight of man.

[David Mills]

Marriage in God's eyes can only be between two believers.

Though I believe this may be true, I have searched Scripture that specifically addresses this and have yet to find it. I know that Paul addresses the marriage between a believer and a nonbeliever and says that they should remain together.

I cannot catagorically state that God does not recognize a marriage between nonbelievers because I cannot find specific Scripture. This may be one of them things that one has to put together a string of Scripture to draw a conclusion. If anyone has such a string, please share it so that we may see Biblical reference.

This is something that I have tried to piece together but have been unable to do so.

[Randy]

Jody,
First let me say that I am not judging or throwing rocks here. I am in the same boat you are although some say my first divorce was acceptable in God's eyes as adultry was involved. That being said, asking a pastor to marry or remarry a divorced couple is no different than asking a christian to accept homosexual marriage. Either/or is a sin in God's word. This is not to say that your marriage is a sin. That can be forgiven and is between you and your God. But a pastor does not have the right to approve of or forgive a sin. Only God can do that.

[SBG]

This is something that I have tried to piece together but have been unable to do so.

David, this passage from Romans 8, teaches that it is impossible for a non-believer to please God. :)

8:6
For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
8:7
Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8:8
So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
8:9
But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

[Spotlite]

If you were not saved when you were married the first time, you were not married in the sight of God.
God did not seperate a marriage for the saved / unsaved. God sees a marriage betewwn a man and a woman regardless if saved or not. He did not make any diff in them when he told us to marry if needed. He recognized that unsaved people, remember the woman that had been married and the man she is living with now was not even her husband? God saw her as being married and joined together with her past husbands. Your still considered by God an adulter if you cheat on your spouse regardless if married or not.

Jody as far as the preacher goes, he may be overstepping his bounds, depending on how he feels, I assume a preacher can accept or not accept the responsibility to marry or not marry for anyone. God told the married people what was acceptable in divorce and remarriage and I dont think a preacher should hold that over your head. You make your right and wrongs with God, not the preacher. God knows the circumstances and if you have talked to God about it and feel you have made your repenatance and God has forgiven you of it, I would care less what the preacher thought. If God cant forgive you of that then there is alot people in trouble.

[Branchminnow]

Sounds like this Preacher is taking himself WAY too seriously and needs to lighten up!
Actually I think alot of preachers dont take themselves seriously enough.

Just another veiwpoint.

[Branchminnow]

This is my take, I am not judging anyone I answer to god and him only, no man can kill both body and soul but God can (that is scripture) I wont marry anyone that has been married before, thats just me, as you can see there is no shortage of men that will marry folks in that situation.

[Branchminnow]

BTW I think Jody is a fine fellow as well and have the utmost confidence in alot of what he posts here.

[SBG]

God did not seperate a marriage for the saved / unsaved. God sees a marriage betewwn a man and a woman regardless if saved or not. .

I'm sorry...but that is just not correct. You make God to be a liar if you believe that. Christ himself said that what God joined together let no man put asunder.

God will not contradict Himself by joining together a lost person with a believer. If so, the following passage of scripture is useless:

2 Cor

6:14
Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?
6:15
And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?
6:16
And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said , I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
6:17
Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you,
6:18
And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.

[Spotlite]

I'm sorry...but that is just not correct. You make God to be a liar if you believe that. Christ himself said that what God joined together let no man put asunder.

God will not contradict Himself by joining together a lost person with a believer. If so, the following passage of scripture is useless:

2 Cor

6:14
Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?
6:15
And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?
6:16
And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said , I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
6:17
Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you,
6:18
And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.
I did not mention putting together a saved person and an unsaved person. I did say God sees no diff in a married couple regardless if they are saved or not, he still sees them as married or joined together, nothing to do with salvation. He also says if a man or woman is married to an unbeliever, the unbeliever can be justified through the believer, in so many words. So he does know that every marriage does not have two believers in it, and he still sees that as a marriage.

My comments were based on post #12 only, God does see a marriage between a man and a woman and there is no scripture in the Bible to say he only sees those of the saved.

[David Mills]

Russ,

I still don't see a clear answer. Yes, Paul warned the Christians of Corinth not to marry a non-believer. It still doesn't say if God recognized the marriage or not.
Paul does state in 1 Cor 7:12-14 that even if one is a believer and the other is not, that it is not a legit reason for divorce. God evidently recognized that this was happening and would continue to happen or we would not have Biblical guidance concerning it.

Romans 7:2 basically says marriage is until death of either the husband or wife, no stipulation based on saved or unsaved.

You may be right, but I cannot find nor has anyone provided clear Biblical guidance.

[mlmathis123]

Well speaking from experience, this is the way Jessica and Myself had to face it.

I was attending a C.O.G.O.P (Church of God of Prophecy) when we met and I really like the Pastor I think he is a fine man of God. Jessica was attending a local Baptist church and she also had a fine Pastor there also.
Well when we made the decission to get married I was fully aware that she had been married about 17 years earlier to a man that was commiting adultary. She tried everything to save her marraige because she did not believe in divorce. But he still left her and filed.
Well when I asked the COGOP pastor to talk with us about marriage he was friendly enough but Jessica knew what was about to happen. After dinner he asked 1 question and only one question to each of us. Have you ever been married. My reply was no sir, her reply was yes and she explained what had happened. His reply was Jessica you need to seek out your husband and talk with him and encourage him to return to you. Your marriage to Mike will be an abomination to God because in his eyes your still married.
Now her Ex husband at that time and still is married to the woman her left her for and they have 2 kids and this man of God wants Jessica to plead for his return :confused:
With tears in her eyes she told me that she did not want to cause me to sin and wanted to call the marriage off. But as I read and as I understand the scriptures and with out any conviction in my heart from God I refused to yeld to the COGOP pastors advise to remain friends. We spoke to her Baptist pastor and he informed us that before he was saved he had been divorced and he understood our position about the adultary.

Every man has to answer for the sins he commits before God on Judgement day. I feel that sometimes even pastors that know in their heart what the right thing to do is, they are bound by the by laws of religion and are afraid to lose their job as pastor if they follow their heart and Gods will concerning issues that scripture can back up but the church denies.


God Bless
Mike and Jessica

[SBG]

My comments were based on post #12 only, God does see a marriage between a man and a woman and there is no scripture in the Bible to say he only sees those of the saved.

It is the same principle. You don't think that God would join together a believer and a non-believer, but you don't have a problem believing that he would ordain two non-believer in marriage?:huh: :)

So...you believe that God would join together two lost people? Where is that found in scripture?

[SBG]

Russ,

I still don't see a clear answer. Yes, Paul warned the Christians of Corinth not to marry a non-believer. It still doesn't say if God recognized the marriage or not.


David, you know that there are many things in Christian principle that are not a "clear" answer. Like you said previously, it is compilation of the scriptures in their entirety. What do you suppose the passage means that says that someone in the flesh cannot please God? If a lost person can't please God, then their marriage cannot please God.


Romans 7:2 basically says marriage is until death of either the husband or wife, no stipulation based on saved or unsaved.


Notice in verse 12 Paul indicates that he is speaking here. As an evangelist he recognizes the hope in the non-believer being possibly saved through the testimony of the believing spouse. There is no "shall" that they remain married.

[SBG]

Well speaking from experience, this is the way Jessica and Myself had to face it.

I was attending a C.O.G.O.P (Church of God of Prophecy) when we met and I really like the Pastor I think he is a fine man of God. Jessica was attending a local Baptist church and she also had a fine Pastor there also.
Well when we made the decission to get married I was fully aware that she had been married about 17 years earlier to a man that was commiting adultary. She tried everything to save her marraige because she did not believe in divorce. But he still left her and filed.
Well when I asked the COGOP pastor to talk with us about marriage he was friendly enough but Jessica knew what was about to happen. After dinner he asked 1 question and only one question to each of us. Have you ever been married. My reply was no sir, her reply was yes and she explained what had happened. His reply was Jessica you need to seek out your husband and talk with him and encourage him to return to you. Your marriage to Mike will be an abomination to God because in his eyes your still married.
Now her Ex husband at that time and still is married to the woman her left her for and they have 2 kids and this man of God wants Jessica to plead for his return :confused:
With tears in her eyes she told me that she did not want to cause me to sin and wanted to call the marriage off. But as I read and as I understand the scriptures and with out any conviction in my heart from God I refused to yeld to the COGOP pastors advise to remain friends. We spoke to her Baptist pastor and he informed us that before he was saved he had been divorced and he understood our position about the adultary.

Every man has to answer for the sins he commits before God on Judgement day. I feel that sometimes even pastors that know in their heart what the right thing to do is, they are bound by the by laws of religion and are afraid to lose their job as pastor if they follow their heart and Gods will concerning issues that scripture can back up but the church denies.


God Bless
Mike and Jessica

Great post Mike.

[GeauxLSU]

I'm with David on this one. The pastor is simply doing what he is scripturally obligated to (not) do. I don't think he is judging, at all.

SBG, there are several warnings in the bible (equally yoked) about a variety of things (including non marriage topics), but that does not make null and void relationships or the activity therein, nor is it a 'free pass'. The 'equally yoked' is read by me as a warning about the recipe for successful and blessed marriages. Not about the REQUIREMENTS for a marriage in God's eyes.

For the record, my wife was previously married and we rightfully went through a LOT to get my church to recognize our marriage (despite scriptural grounds). In retrospect, I was very annoyed. In fairness, I think it was misdirected frustration at the situation and not the church. To be honest, despite the church's rubber stamp, I was positive whether or not God has blessed our marriage, then my son was born. That doesn't mean it wasn't blessed before or wouldn't have been had he not been born, but for ME it was a big "Hello!" from him. If God still has an issue with my marriage, I guess I'll pay for it in due time.

Jody, I guess I'm saying, I've sorta' been there. Make sure the frustration is directed properly and if you feel you need a pastor's blessing (scriptural grounds or not), as others have mentioned, plenty will do it.

[Spotlite]

It is the same principle. You don't think that God would join together a believer and a non-believer, but you don't have a problem believing that he would ordain two non-believer in marriage?:huh: :)

So...you believe that God would join together two lost people? Where is that found in scripture?
Show the scripture that says they have to be saved or the one that God does not see a marriage if the couple are unsaved. Do all the people that got married before they got saved have to go back and get married again? Or are they automatically ordained as soon as they are saved? How does that work with your comments? Where is that found in scripture?

God only said it is better to marry than to burn. The bed of marriage is not defiled. The act of sex is forbidden before marriage and that was the concept of the unity of marriage. Salvation has nothing to do with that.

[Jody Hawk]

Well I just got a pm on this subject and since it was a pm I won't say who sent it but he put it perfectly as I see it. Hope you don't mind me putting it on the open board.

"Why do Christians say that when we become saved all sins are washed clean, we are reborn and washed as clean as driven snow. Then these same Christians tell you that being divorced and remarried is "not really forgiven". So which is it? If you are like me then you believe that God truly washed away your past sins and has truly forgiven you.

Remember God has forgiven you and you are to forgive those that can't or won't accept that. "

Amen, well put and I had to share it with others who may be struggling understanding this. Thank you to the one who sent me this pm !!!!

[David Mills]

Once again, let me emphasize that God is good and He is forgiving and is full of grace. No matter how big someone’s sin is, it is not too big for His forgiveness (except blasphemy).

Like I said, I’m not certain what the correct answer is. All I can say is that I cannot find a clear concise answer concerning this issue. In this and similar situations, I take the safe ground and try not to put myself in this type of situation.

Each and every one of us, as Christians, have to live by conviction of the Holy Spirit. I had a saying that I used to use when I taught Jr. High Sunday School “when in doubt, don’t”. I believe if one, especially a Christian, has doubts about something they have done or are about to do, then it was/is probably the wrong thing. I am not going to insist that anyone live by my convictions, I can only reconcile MYSELF with God. But, if you have some doubt about what you believe, then you need to be on your knees asking God for clear guidance. Put it behind you and trust the Lord that He will provide an answer in His time.

One other thing, this issue should not cast doubt on anyone’s salvation.

[SBG]

Do all the people that got married before they got saved have to go back and get married again? Or are they automatically ordained as soon as they are saved? How does that work with your comments? Where is that found in scripture?

God only said it is better to marry than to burn. The bed of marriage is not defiled. The act of sex is forbidden before marriage and that was the concept of the unity of marriage. Salvation has nothing to do with that.

Chris...you are confusing a marriage with a wedding. To answer you question...No. If two lost people have had a civil wedding service, and then are saved afterward...they don't have to "go back" and have another wedding ceremony. They are now new creations of God.

Scripture is quite clear and adamant. A lost person cannot do one single thing that is pleasing in the sight of God. I have given ample scripture that is very clear on this. Since a lost person cannot please God, it is impossible for two lost people to be recognized as being married in the sight of God. Furthermore, it is not possible for a non-believer and a believer to be married in the sight of God.

I know this is an emotional subject; however, we cannot allow "our" emotions to mute what is so abundantly clear in scripture.

[SBG]

SBG, there are several warnings in the bible (equally yoked) about a variety of things (including non marriage topics), but that does not make null and void relationships or the activity therein, nor is it a 'free pass'. The 'equally yoked' is read by me as a warning about the recipe for successful and blessed marriages. Not about the REQUIREMENTS for a marriage in God's eyes.



It doesn't make it null and void...it makes it irrelevant. You can only null and void something that may have appeared at first to have some form of legitimacy.

[Spotlite]

Chris...you are confusing a marriage with a wedding. To answer you question...No. If two lost people have had a civil wedding service, and then are saved afterward...they don't have to "go back" and have another wedding ceremony. They are now new creations of God.

Scripture is quite clear and adamant. A lost person cannot do one single thing that is pleasing in the sight of God. I have given ample scripture that is very clear on this. Since a lost person cannot please God, it is impossible for two lost people to be recognized as being married in the sight of God. Furthermore, it is not possible for a non-believer and a believer to be married in the sight of God.

I know this is an emotional subject; however, we cannot allow "our" emotions to mute what is so abundantly clear in scripture.
I understand what you are saying, but there is no scripture that says or leads us to believe that God does not see a marriage of the unsaved. If this were true, and a man that was unsaved cheated on his wife with another unsaved woman, how can God hold that man and woman accountable for adultry? A marriage is to unite a man and a woman together as one and it does not refer to salvation. I understand an unsaved person can not please God and getting married has nothing to do with salvation. There are a number of things he is not pleased with in the terms of a non believer. God still recognizes that couple as one and being married. It is most certainly possible for a couple to be married with one believer and one non believer. It is scripture and my sister is a perfect example. She started coming to church last year, her husband will come about once every couple of months. Well she is now saved, he is not, is she committing adultry or considered married in the eyes of God because her husband has failed to come in? Is she considered unequally yoked at this time? What is she to do, get a divorce, stop coming to church until he decides to? I am not for divorce but I have an aunt that filed for one last year. Her husband abused her, stayed drunk all the time and so forth. This did not happen right from the start. They were married for 18 years, raised 4 kids together. All of the sudden he went the other direction and never came back. Is she wrong for getting out of that marriage and into another one with a man that will attend church with her and love her kids as his own. You think God will not forgive her for the divorce she filed to get out of that and into one that she can be happy with now and not get beat? I think she had some praying to do but she did it and I think God forgave her and does not consider her as an adulter for it. But then again, that is between her and God, not man. I think he is more pleased with that than her getting beat up. Again, if there are scriptures to say that God does not see a marriage of the unbeliever when the whole time he basically says if you cant control your self, get married, making no ref to believer or non believer, I would like to see those scriptures.

[Dixie Dawg]

His reply was Jessica you need to seek out your husband and talk with him and encourage him to return to you. Your marriage to Mike will be an abomination to God because in his eyes your still married.
Now her Ex husband at that time and still is married to the woman her left her for and they have 2 kids and this man of God wants Jessica to plead for his return :confused:



:hair: :hair: :hair: :crazy: :crazy:

I thank God every day that He removed me from these 'beliefs' and showed me the TRUTH!!!

No offense :)

[Spotlite]

:hair: :hair: :hair: :crazy: :crazy:

I thank God every day that He removed me from these 'beliefs' and showed me the TRUTH!!!

No offense :)
Kerri, everyone that claims to be a man of God, is not.

[Spotlite]

Since a lost person cannot please God, it is impossible for two lost people to be recognized as being married in the sight of God. Furthermore, it is not possible for a non-believer and a believer to be married in the sight of God.

Read 1 Corinthians 7: 1 -15
Hebrews 13: 4

I think you will find God does see a marriage with one beliver and one non believer and you will see that marriage is honorable in ALL.

[GeauxLSU]

:hair: :hair: :hair: :crazy: :crazy:

I thank God every day that He removed me from these 'beliefs' and showed me the TRUTH!!!

No offense :)You held the beliefs of a misguided preacher? :huh: In that case, I'm thankful too! :D

[SBG]

Read 1 Corinthians 7: 1 -15
Hebrews 13: 4

I think you will find God does see a marriage with one beliver and one non believer and you will see that marriage is honorable in ALL.

I'm sorry Brother Chris...you are simply reading into scripture something that isn't there. I gave ample scripture that clearly establishes that there is a "difference" before and after salvation, and the act of salvation is entirely of God...you chose to disregard it.

There is no need to debate it. I choose to accept, however difficult it may be sometimes, the whole councel of God, and lean not on what I have been "taught" over the years.

[Spotlite]

I'm sorry Brother Chris...you are simply reading into scripture something that isn't there. I gave ample scripture that clearly establishes that there is a "difference" before and after salvation, and the act of salvation is entirely of God...you chose to disregard it.

There is no need to debate it. I choose to accept, however difficult it may be sometimes, the whole councel of God, and lean not on what I have been "taught" over the years.
The only scripture you gave was it was impossible to please God if you were not saved. :huh:

God made no stipulations regarding marriage and salvation, at least no scripture has been given to show it.

I am reading exactly what is in the word, nothing here to have to go to a commentary or ask about.
1 Corinthians 7 : 12 - 15

But to the rest speak I, not the Lord: If any brother hath a wife that believeth not, and she be pleased to dwell with him, let him not put her away.
And the woman which hath an husband that believeth not, and if he be pleased to dwell with her, let her not leave him.

Thats point blank, the kicker and reason for this is for vs 14.


So if that is not what that is saying, exactly what is it saying? Either way, God saw those marriages and realizes they are here and happen. I have never seen a couple come into a church and recieve salvation at the same time. I have seen one come in and the spouse a few weeks, months and maybe years down the road. Are these people adulters? Does their marriage really exsist?

[SBG]

The only scripture you gave was it was impossible to please God if you were not saved. :huh:



What more needs to be given? If an unsaved person cannot please God, how can their marriage possibly please God?::ke: :huh:

You have to realize that prior to salvation, all of our actions are irrelevant. I don't know how the Bible can be anymore clear about it.

This principle is not exclusively directed towards marriage. It is about all aspects of live. There is nothing that a lost person can do that pleases God. Not his good deeds, his giving to charity, his decision to be married. Two lost people are basically commiting fornication since their marriage is not ordained of God.

[David Mills]

There is nothing that a lost person can do that pleases God. Not his good deeds, his giving to charity, his decision to be married.

There are no works, either saved or unsaved, that is worthy of His glory. Isaiah said his works were no more than filthy rags.

Sin is sin, doesn't matter if one is saved or not. It's just that once we accept Christ we fall under God's grace and our sins are forgiven.

Not sure if I'm agreeing or disagreeing:hammers:

[Spotlite]

Two lost people are basically commiting fornication since their marriage is not ordained of God.
Never have read that or seen that in the Bible.

These people may not be pleasing to God because they are not saved, but enough scripture is in the Bible to show that God sees those marriages and has referred to them in scripture. As far as pleasing, our righteousnes is as of filthy rags. Them getting married has nothing to do with salvation, it will not save them, at least they got married and can not be held for fornication because they were married. Isnt that what scripture says, to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife and let every woman have her own husband?
By your statements and your beliefs, my sister is living in fornication and 1 Corinthians does not exsist. Im sorry, but the scripture saying a non believer can not please God is not saying that a marriage does not exsist to the non believer.

[SBG]

Never have read that or seen that in the Bible.



Well Brother it is there. I'm sorry you can't see it.::;

It is not an issue of salvation or not. It is a situation of whether God recognizes the deeds of the lost...He does not. Your point is valid about the "filthy" rags...and that is exactly what marriage outside of salvation is. There is no difference between two people co-habitating(shacking up) and two lost people that go through a man made ceremony. How anyone can believe that God recognizes that is beyond me.

Do you think that two satanist that get a secular marriage license from the state, and then has the "ceremony" conducted by a satanist priest are married in the sight of God or that God has joined these two together?:crazy:

A person cannot even get saved unless God first draws them and gives them repentance.

By your statements and your beliefs, my sister is living in fornication and 1 Corinthians does not exsist.

No. I didn't say that or even imply that. Your sister-in-law's situation is exactly the situation that is covered by verese 12. You may want to read on down to vs. 15

[David Mills]

I think this thread has just about run it's course.

[Double Barrel BB]

A person cannot even get saved unless God first draws them and gives them repentance.

AMEN!!!!

DB BB

[one_shot_no_mor]

I think this thread has just about run it's course.


Won't it be AWESOME in Heaven where there is NO RELIGION!!

[SBG]

Won't it be AWESOME in Heaven where there is NO RELIGION!!


When you consider the root meaning of the word...worship...that is all there'll be in Heaven.

[CAL]

I think this thread has just about run it's course.

I agree,it has sorta gotten confusing and appears to be a unnecessary power struggle between members!

[SBG]

I hope this don't come off sounding mean hearted...believe me I don't mean it too.

This is a discussion forum. The topics should close on their own volition. I believe if a discussion is not breaking the rules of the website and are substantive in nature, that it is rude, especially for moderators, to basically try and halt what the forum was intended.

[Spotlite]

I agree,it has sorta gotten confusing and appears to be a unnecessary power struggle between members!
No power struggle here, just wanted to see scripture, not thoughts.

SBG and I both are on a mature understanding level of one another and have no problems with each others post.

[SBG]

No power struggle here, just wanted to see scripture, not thoughts.

SBG and I both are on a mature understanding level of one another and have no problems with each others post.

Agreed! Two brothers in Christ that even PM each other to talk about this stuff!:D

Brother Chris...maybe we should take it to the chat.:bounce:

[Spotlite]

Agreed! Two brothers in Christ that even PM each other to talk about this stuff!:D

Brother Chris...maybe we should take it to the chat.:bounce:
I kind of like your other post, this is what this forum was created for to start with, but.............:pop:

[David Mills]

I, in no way, as a moderator or in any other position, try to shut this thread down.

My previous statement:
I think this thread has just about run it's course.
This was an attempt to stop the "is, is not, is, is not, etc,". It was going nowhere. To me it got to be a who was right and who was wrong debate instead of encouraging a brother with a problem, Jody needed help and, in my opinion, the thread was derailed (which I contributed to). I believe I had stated a page or 2 back that this probably should have been discussed in a different thread and the more I think about it, the better the idea seems.

[SBG]

the thread was derailed (which I contributed to).

That derailed reasoning really doesn't apply to this thread. The thread naturally went in the direction it did.

[CAL]

I, in no way, as a moderator or in any other position, try to shut this thread down.

My previous statement:

This was an attempt to stop the "is, is not, is, is not, etc,". It was going nowhere. To me it got to be a who was right and who was wrong debate instead of encouraging a brother with a problem, Jody needed help and, in my opinion, the thread was derailed (which I contributed to). I believe I had stated a page or 2 back that this probably should have been discussed in a different thread and the more I think about it, the better the idea seems.



I agree with you again David.The thread is going no where.Nothing is being done to help our Brother Jody with his problem.I am not exercising my powers as a moderator,I am only offering an opinion.

[Mechanicaldawg]

Jody,

Your marriage to Rhonda is a blessing from God and it has touched and blessed others as you two have grown together.

Please do not let the dogmatic views of a narrow-minded individual dampen your Spirit.

Move past it with your head up and enjoy the Love!

[Spotlite]

I agree with you again David.The thread is going no where.Nothing is being done to help our Brother Jody with his problem.I am not exercising my powers as a moderator,I am only offering an opinion.
After post #31, it was Ok to go ahead and talk about these other things that involve marriage, Jody already had his answer.

[Dixie Dawg]

You held the beliefs of a misguided preacher? :huh: In that case, I'm thankful too! :D



:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Phil, is this a trick question or something??? :bounce: :bounce: ::ke: ::ke:

[7401R]

"Jesus walked on the water and I know that is true,
but sometimes I think that Preacherman, he'd like to do a little walkin' too."

Charlie Daniels