Straw Purchase??

Buck Nasty · Nov 7, 2011

Ok, I love watching these shows on TV such as Border Wars and Bordertown, Laredo about the war on illegals, drugs and guns crossing the borders.

So me and my three boys were standing at the gun counter at Academy Sports in Snellville on Friday evening. I am also a huge people watcher, and noticed a man and a woman with two small children standing down by the far end where they keep their AR's. The gentlemen was pointing to various AR's and talking in a non-native language to his lady friend. So the sale associate makes his way down to the couple to help them few the various AR in stock and hands them several different ones which the gentlemen briefly holds and hands back to the female and has her hold it and fiddle with it. It is obvious that the female had NO CLUE about the AR. The female was also acting as the go between with the sales associate and the gentlemen who showed the most interest in the gun. Finally after some quick conversation they decide on the one they want and they walk toward the center of the counter where the sales associate proceeds to explain to the woman what SHE needs to fill out. Now any half minded nimwit could have seen that this gun was not intended for this woman and clearly for the gentlemen who she was with.

My questions are these:

Would this be considered a straw purchase?

Should I have said something to the Manager, because maybe the young lad behind the counter had no clue about Straw Purchases?

What were the chances of this gun being shipped across the border?

If this was a Straw Purchase, could anything be done now?

cobra97 · Nov 7, 2011

Except for the language and small children, you pretty much described when Mrs. Cobra bought HER Bushmaster AR. She had no clue but wanted one. And it really is hers, not mine. You may be reading way too much into this.

Or maybe not.

Terry

jcountry · Nov 7, 2011

I doubt it-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_purchase

The trick is that the dealer has to somehow "know" that the intent of the purchaser is to buy a gun for someone who is not legally eligible. Then the dealer could be prosecuted as well.

It probably was a straw purchase, but it also could have been that she was buying it as a gift for someone who can't speak English.

Now, if I were the dealer, I may have chosen to not sell the gun to her. But, maybe there is a plausible explanation.

As far as trying to prosecute her for a "straw purchase," I would bet that gun would have to turn up at a crime scene, and then they would do it after the fact. I am no lawyer, but my understanding is that it is very difficult to prove "intent," and that is what you would have to do here. You would have to prove that she "intended" to buy for someone she was aware was not legally able to purchase, and she would have had to have reasonable knowledge that he was not able to buy.

I sure wouldn't buy a gun for someone else, but maybe there is more to the story.

Rest assured, that it this gun does turn up at a crime scene-and that guy was the suspect for something bad, questions will be asked, and this woman would probably have some serious "splaining to do," but until then-I would be there is nothing anyone could do.

rayjay · Nov 7, 2011

That sounds like a straw purchase but it could be that the man was a citizen. I don't know what the store is supposed to do but I don't think they are supposed to complete the sale in a situation like this. The best case scenario would be for the store to contact the BATFE within minutes of completing the sale and for them to go knock on the 'buyers' door.

Buck Nasty · Nov 7, 2011

I know when a gun was being bought for me as a gift, I had to fill out the paperwork once the salesman understood that the gun was for me...regardless of who the money was coming from..I was going to be the owner of the firearm.

FX Jenkins · Nov 7, 2011

If her paper work comes back clean, so be it....If the gun gets picked up in a crime, she's responsible...period. Doesn't matter if she is bi-lingual, if she's a US citizen with a clean record, she has a right to buy to firearm.

Now, this may be a deal fixing to go bad, but I don't think the situation you described above is enough to warrant discrimination so long as her paperwork comes back legit.

Jim Baker · Nov 8, 2011

FX Jenkins said:
If her paper work comes back clean, so be it....If the gun gets picked up in a crime, she's responsible...period. Doesn't matter if she is bi-lingual, if she's a US citizen with a clean record, she has a right to buy to firearm.

Now, this may be a deal fixing to go bad, but I don't think the situation you described above is enough to warrant discrimination so long as her paperwork comes back legit.

The Right answer, pun intended.

Throwback · Nov 8, 2011

she may have been filling it out for him since the paperwork was in english and he obviously didn't understand it

T

holton27596 · Nov 8, 2011

probally bought it as a gift for her illegal hubby. My wife has bought several guns for me, and it was like the above (except I speak english and im legal) I handled the guns and let her handle them. The store had me fill out the paperwork, nt her.

ASH556 · Nov 8, 2011

Throwback said:
she may have been filling it out for him since the paperwork was in english and he obviously didn't understand it

T

That's still technically a straw purchase.

I don't know if what the OP saw was or not. Most likely, yes, but would be difficult to prove.

When I was behind a sales counter, if I ever had any reasonable doubt, I'd politely tell the customer that I couldn't sell them the gun and why. Sometimes they were polite and sometimes they weren't. Didn't matter to me. I was polite and I was obeying the law.

One instance in particular was quite similar to what the OP is describing with the exception of children being present. In that case, the mid-30's daughter was playing translater for the much older father. When she tried to fill out the form for him, I explained that the Federal form 4473 clearly stated that it must be completed by the transferee. She told me he couldn't complete it as he didn't speak English. I replied that I was sorry, but that was the law. She then proceeded to cuss me in Spanish, which she didn't know I understood. I politely asked her to leave the store. After a few more words, she was gone.

Simple enough.

gunsaler111 · Nov 8, 2011

The person handing over the cash,check ,or card fills out the paperwork.
If it is a gift ,the person buying it is the only one who does the paperwork.
If he cant read,or write, someone else can fill in his info.

Fletch_W · Nov 8, 2011

The Athens East Side Walmart is now selling guns, as of right now, according to my inside source. I can guarantee you that at least 50% of the purchases will be of the straw variety.

groundhawg · Nov 8, 2011

Throwback said:
she may have been filling it out for him since the paperwork was in english and he obviously didn't understand it

T

The form 4473 is offered in Spanish.

gunsaler111 · Nov 8, 2011

Josh Vibert said:
That's still technically a straw purchase.

I don't know if what the OP saw was or not. Most likely, yes, but would be difficult to prove.

When I was behind a sales counter, if I ever had any reasonable doubt, I'd politely tell the customer that I couldn't sell them the gun and why. Sometimes they were polite and sometimes they weren't. Didn't matter to me. I was polite and I was obeying the law.

One instance in particular was quite similar to what the OP is describing with the exception of children being present. In that case, the mid-30's daughter was playing translater for the much older father. When she tried to fill out the form for him, I explained that the Federal form 4473 clearly stated that it must be completed by the transferee. She told me he couldn't complete it as he didn't speak English. I replied that I was sorry, but that was the law. She then proceeded to cuss me in Spanish, which she didn't know I understood. I politely asked her to leave the store. After a few more words, she was gone.

Simple enough.

IF she was using HIS info ,it was legal.
IF it was a gift for him, it was legal.
How do you know he wasnt a citizen?

Read "instructions to the transferee/buyer", paragraph 1. on the back of the 4473. Let us know what it says.
Unable to speak english isnt good enough to deny someones second

gunsaler111 · Nov 8, 2011

groundhawg said:
The form 4473 is offered in Spanish.

yep.

Milkman · Nov 8, 2011

groundhawg said:
The form 4473 is offered in Spanish.

Im not sure how someone made the assumption the language in question was spanish

Bet even so, we must make the assumption the gentleman in question can read and write to be able to fill out the paperwork in any language.

SgtPat · Nov 9, 2011

Buck Nasty said:
Ok, I love watching these shows on TV such as Border Wars and Bordertown, Laredo about the war on illegals, drugs and guns crossing the borders.

So me and my three boys were standing at the gun counter at Academy Sports in Snellville on Friday evening. I am also a huge people watcher, and noticed a man and a woman with two small children standing down by the far end where they keep their AR's. The gentlemen was pointing to various AR's and talking in a non-native language to his lady friend. So the sale associate makes his way down to the couple to help them few the various AR in stock and hands them several different ones which the gentlemen briefly holds and hands back to the female and has her hold it and fiddle with it. It is obvious that the female had NO CLUE about the AR. The female was also acting as the go between with the sales associate and the gentlemen who showed the most interest in the gun. Finally after some quick conversation they decide on the one they want and they walk toward the center of the counter where the sales associate proceeds to explain to the woman what SHE needs to fill out. Now any half minded nimwit could have seen that this gun was not intended for this woman and clearly for the gentlemen who she was with.

My questions are these:

Would this be considered a straw purchase?

Should I have said something to the Manager, because maybe the young lad behind the counter had no clue about Straw Purchases?

What were the chances of this gun being shipped across the border?

If this was a Straw Purchase, could anything be done now?

Does not speaking english make someone inelligable to own a firearm?

packrat · Nov 10, 2011

Hmmmmmm....

Buck Nasty said:
My questions are these:

Would this be considered a straw purchase?
Possibly
Should I have said something to the Manager, because maybe the young lad behind the counter had no clue about Straw Purchases?
You should have informed the manager that you have seen suspicious activity
and you wanted to mention that you was concerned "for the benefit" of the business to ensure that his employee
was properly trained to avoid any illegal transactions
What were the chances of this gun being shipped across the border?
Slim, however there is a good chance that laws were being bent possibly on both sides of the counter. Intentionally or unintentionally.
If this was a Straw Purchase, could anything be done now?
Not much of a chance without a proper investigation and evidence.

The Govt. has been illegally pushing thousands of them across the border for a while now.
"Fast & Furious" & "Operation Gun runner".
Way to keep your eye for such activity.
It's straw buyers that ruin the name of honest gun owners.

SgtPat said:
Does not speaking english make someone inelligable to own a firearm?

No, but it should unless they have some type of physical disability that prevents them from doing so.
Love the land, love the language, adapt to your surroundings and way of life or go home. Just my .02 cents

garnede · Nov 10, 2011

it could be a straw purchase, or it could be woman buying a gun for her husband and was seeking the advice of a friend that did not speak english.

SgtPat · Nov 10, 2011

garnede said:
it could be a straw purchase, or it could be woman buying a gun for her husband and was seeking the advice of a friend that did not speak english.

It could be that her husband is not a US citizen and does not speek english. It is not a straw purchase if her husband can legally posess a firearm, which he can if he is a resident alien.

Straw Purchase??

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