Ponder This---

Vernon Holt · Jul 13, 2006

Consider that you have two log trailers fully loaded with tree length logs. The logs are all cut to the same length, and are loaded to precisely the same height on both trailers.

The only difference in the two loaded trailers is that one trailer contains logs which are noticeably larger than the other.

Which of the two trailers will weigh in with the heavier load, and why???

Please note: Timberman is disqualified from participating since he is one of those capitalists who is in the business of buying logs by weight.

Flash · Jul 13, 2006

The oak over the pine??

My guess would be the smaller logs cause they fit together tighter allowing for more wood and less air.

Nicodemus · Jul 13, 2006

Won`t the trailer with the smaller logs be heavier because there is less gap between the logs, thus more actual wood on the trailer?

GTBHUNTIN · Jul 13, 2006

Those are great points by flash and nicodemus, those are my first thoughts but if one of the big logs weigh twice as much as say one of the smaller logs or even 3 times then it will take 3 small logs to match the weight of one large log or 2 logs to match one large log, so there would have to be room enough in the trailor with little logs to put more than twice the number of big logs.

GeauxLSU · Jul 13, 2006

I hate geometry..... :banginghe

Nicodemus · Jul 13, 2006

Now you got me studyin`.............and you have a point there. Might have to run up to Tollesons tomorrow, and then come back with an answer!

DYI hunting · Jul 13, 2006

I vote the larger trees are heavier because the fibers of a mature tree are tighter increasing the overall weight vs mass of the larger logs.

WTM45 · Jul 13, 2006

Larger diameter trees hold more moisture, and dry out at a slower rate. If both trailers are loaded with the same technique, the trailer with the larger diameter logs will be heavier than trailer with the smaller ones. My guess.

Bigslick · Jul 13, 2006

i agree with wtm45

BIG UNs

Swamprat · Jul 13, 2006

I would say that the larger logs would weigh less due to the fact that as you get into the heart of the tree it is more pourous for water flow to the top.

Why do you think when you see rotten trees they will always have the center of them gone first before the outer portion. More moisture and air pockets. How many have seen a fallen cypress in a swamp that has been there for a while and the inner portion of the trunk is gone while the outer is gone but if you see a 4-6" inch sapling that is down it will rot from the outside in.

CAL · Jul 13, 2006

Vernon Holt said:
Consider that you have two log trailers fully loaded with tree length logs. The logs are all cut to the same length, and are loaded to precisely the same height on both trailers.

Like some of the others I would think the smaller logs will weigh more than the larger ones since the above statement about the same length and height.I think the smaller logs will take up more total area than the larger logs creating more weight.The smaller logs will lay closer together.

Mr.Vernon,ya messing with us now!

Nicodemus · Jul 13, 2006

I`ll be ponderin` on this all night now!!

Vernon Holt · Jul 13, 2006

I had planned to hold off til' tomorrow to confirm the proper answer, but I would not dare keep Nic in suspense since I know he needs his sleep.

And the answer is--------The larger logs will indeed be the heavier!!

The weight difference stems from a combination of factors. It is hard to believe, but there is less void (air space) in the load of large logs. There is more bark on smaller logs (bark is lighter than wood). The larger logs are almost always more dense than smaller logs, thus heavier. Large logs are likely to have some heartwood, making them heavier than smaller logs with none.

Congrats to those who were correct.

GTBHUNTIN · Jul 13, 2006

I am right and your wrong

DYI hunting · Jul 13, 2006

Got it right. :clap:

GTBHUNTIN · Jul 13, 2006

I was just pickin just so yall know

Nicodemus · Jul 14, 2006

Great post Mr. Vernon!

rip18 · Jul 14, 2006

Ouch, I didn't see this until this morning... Oh well... Good one, Mr. Vernon!

If the trailers were on our property, they had better both weigh the same since our loggers are using in-the-woods scales to load each trailer to the maximum legal weight & optimize getting the landowner good returns! (But of course that would violate the assumptions that Mr. Vernon gave us of exactly the same height, length, etc....). So going by those assumptions, it would have to be the larger diameter logs (which have higher bulk density).

A seat of the pants way to figure this is that many times you will see a log trailer going down the road with big logs, but the trailer isn't loaded to the top of the bolsters. That is because the maximum legal axle weight is maxed out. A lot of times you see a load of small pulpwood piled to the top of the bolsters, packed down by the loader, & more piled on, and it still doesn't quite reach the legal weight that a tractor-trailer can carry on the highway...

For all practical purposes, it doesn't cost any more to carry a full load to the mill than it does a half load. So the logger (who is getting paid by ton basically) wants to maximize net profit by only carrying full loads.... In this case the trailer will hold more than a legal load because the big logs weigh more.

holadude · Jul 14, 2006

Are they PONDERosa pines?

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