Tepid spirituality

"And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; . . . I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot. So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth." (Revelation 3:14-16)

Lukewarm Laodicea

The Lord Jesus used intense language to rebuke this church, the last of the seven He had John write to in the book of Revelation. Laodicea was dangerously near the brink of being disavowed by He who is the Head of the church.

Such churches believe they "have need of nothing" (Revelation 3:17). Worldly wealth, extensive property, and popular recognition blinded these members and their leaders to their true spiritual condition. They failed to understand that, from the Lord's perspective, they are "wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked" (Revelation 3:17).

The cause of this terrible spiritual destitution is being spiritually tepid. It's like expecting a glass of cold water or a cup of hot tea but finding everything at room temperature. This church "tasted" just like the world around them. They were neither godly nor in rebellion--just "nice people" who blended in well with the community. Their spiritual reputation did not smell either like life or death (2 Corinthians 2:16).

Despite the Lord's distaste for such a condition, He loved and counseled them to "buy" from Him the gold of the kingdom's true wealth, righteous clothing that would cover their shameful exposure of worldly behavior, and to anoint their spiritual eyes so that they could see eternal values rather than temporal things.

As the Lord graciously closed His letter, He "stands at the door" of the church, waiting for anyone to open and let Him in (Revelation 3:20). Tepid spirituality keeps the Lord outside. What a shame that such could ever be said about any church. HMM III

From: Days of Praise articles
July 14, 2012

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The grace of God at the end of the message always astounded me too. Imagine a refuge when wandering in complacency, and not as a commander that would bring out the firing squad. I can think of times where the Lord has brought me back from those pits... praise His name!

Did God expect them to do some works for salvation?

Artfuldodger said:

Did God expect them to do some works for salvation?

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I think He meant that the city and all the Kingdom needed more roads.



This song was written by the drummer of this band Roger Taylor.( Queen). It is about his son--the love of his life--- who was back then(early 80's) a child. Jesus in our hearts often or sometimes asks us to walk--a walk of faith-- where at first we would rather care not to. So when we stay still, it begs what fire is in our heart after all, or what has broken us...to listlessness.

Folks cold to a life in the Holy Spirit and folks in the heat of Him are not the obsticles. Both need direction and compassion. But those in the middle, who think and praise "they have made it" usually can't shut up long enough to listen. They become clumsy obsticles within the heavenly cities.

Artfuldodger said:

Did God expect them to do some works for salvation?

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Of course not.

But getting so close to the world (standards) is like taking the grace of God for granted, not a good thing.

This is one reason I don't accept Revelations as inspired. This verse does not represent the Christian faith. It implies that someone might not be good enough.

1gr8bldr said:

This is one reason I don't accept Revelations as inspired. This verse does not represent the Christian faith. It implies that someone might not be good enough.

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That verse doesn't have to represent the Christian faith in order to be inspired.

100's of times, the apostles teach the commandment of discipleship. Paul warned the church in Rome not to have a sick, worldly view of how God's grace should be accepted (Romans 5 and 6).

The church in Laodicea has a lot in common with the church (Christians) today. Many are full of themselves. There isn't much difference in the world today and the people in the church. We've taken on the appearance of the world. We want the same things that people of the world want. We love the way people of the world love. We trust in God the way people of the world do.
We're fat on the world; lazy spiritually; and love ourself more than God..............

And some even blame us and our attitudes on God.

It's inspired alright. But it doesn't fit the modern day Christian faith.

Who does Jesus think he's talking to!!!!! He can's speak to us that way and have those expectations of us????? We're saved by grace aren't we? I demand my rights!!!
I don't have to be anything but saved.

Ronnie T said:

That verse doesn't have to represent the Christian faith in order to be inspired.

100's of times, the apostles teach the commandment of discipleship. Paul warned the church in Rome not to have a sick, worldly view of how God's grace should be accepted (Romans 5 and 6).

The church in Laodicea has a lot in common with the church (Christians) today. Many are full of themselves. There isn't much difference in the world today and the people in the church. We've taken on the appearance of the world. We want the same things that people of the world want. We love the way people of the world love. We trust in God the way people of the world do.
We're fat on the world; lazy spiritually; and love ourself more than God..............

And some even blame us and our attitudes on God.

It's inspired alright. But it doesn't fit the modern day Christian faith.

Who does Jesus think he's talking to!!!!! He can's speak to us that way and have those expectations of us????? We're saved by grace aren't we? I demand my rights!!!
I don't have to be anything but saved.

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Now where does this certain utterance come from? Gee don't tell me, your listening to Jesus and the Holy Spirit these days?!!!! I think your assesment of the patient is spot on Doc. Now your orders?

God does not expect us to work for salvation but he
does not want a slothful church either. Does anyone
here actually think God is pleased with someone who
never see's any need to work for the Lord.

GOD HATES LAZY, SLOTHFUL PEOPLE. HE WILL PUKE YOU UP.

Not my opinion, thats what God says.

A lot of people are trying to justify not doing anything, not giving anything, not caring about anything. Thats not Christian thinking.
Now thats my opinion.

But grace is grace. Paul said "his grace was not without effect on me". In other words, as with Paul, The Holy Spirit living in us has an effect on us. Works are a result. But not a requirement. So does that mean we don't try? No, not what I am saying. What I am saying is that particular verse is saying to already saved hearers, that you are not good enough. You are either washed by the blood white as snow or you are not. To defend that verse is to trample grace underfoot

thedeacon said:

God does not expect us to work for salvation but he
does not want a slothful church either. Does anyone
here actually think God is pleased with someone who
never see's any need to work for the Lord.

GOD HATES LAZY, SLOTHFUL PEOPLE. HE WILL PUKE YOU UP.

Not my opinion, thats what God says.

A lot of people are trying to justify not doing anything, not giving anything, not caring about anything. Thats not Christian thinking.
Now thats my opinion.

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God don't care if the unsaved are lazy. You are implying that God hates lazy Christians. I could never say that. Lazy or not, they were bought by the precious blood of Jesus. This verse has no place in the Christian faith

I would hate to go around wondering if I were good enough. Had I done enough to get in??? Would he spew me out. What was the standard. Who do I compare myself to that I might think that I do more than they do, so hopefully I will be saved and not spewed out. Come on guys, you believe this, then you ain't saved by grace.

If I were to offend a group of students for their being behind others, would I not actually be offending the teacher of that group. Are we not new creations? Are we not God's workmanship?

"More straw, more bricks, increase the quota!"

Where have you seen this before? Are you free or still in slavery?

John 6:28 "Then they asked him, What must we do to do the works God requires?29 Jesus answered" The work of God is to believe in the one he has sent"

Scholars proved long ago that the writing of Revelations was not written by the same writer of John. Even Eusebius wrote about this. Origen also. It was first rejected by the Catholic church but later accepted.

This pasted from another site;
Universally maintained as last in the compilation after the Shepherd of Hermes was finally removed in the middle ages. It is written in a totally different style than the Johannine gospel and epistles. The difference is so pronounced in Greek that none of the patristic writers accepted that the same author of the gospel and epistles was the author of the book (accept Irenaeus). This has led to interesting disputes over the book. All of these began because Irenaeus accepted anything from Ephesus claiming to be from John because he said that Papias, Bishop of Hierapolis, was John’s student and scribe. Papias, however, had said he was the hearer and scribe to John the Presbyter, and not the apostle. Dionysius of Alexandria said the same author as the gospel cannot be the author of Revelation, based on its very different style. Eusebius popularized the idea that the Elder John wrote the book Eusebius dug up Papias own books, where Papias mentions the Elder frequently. This was commonly accepted from that time by others, including Jerome. Eusebius flushed the book into the “spurious” category. The claim of authorship and style of content maintained the book on disputed lists even during the time of Charlemagne (9th century). The Council of Trent would not hold the book as full canon. No Reformer accepted the book. Because of the literary disputes Calvin offered that John Mark could have been the author. The “visions” in Revelation are clearly stolen from Daniel, and they also clearly were applied against Rome. They were also soon to happen . . .but did not.

Notice the way Christ identifies Himself to them:
Rev 3:14And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;
*Very impressive isn't it? All Christians should be able to acknowledge those truths.

Now Christ mentions their outer person and their inner person.
(1) He knows what their physical life is all about. (2) He also knows the inner them. They don't love Christ, and they don't hate Christ. They don't acknowledge Christ.
Rev 3:15 I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou were cold or hot.
*That's not the effect Jesus is suppose to have on people.

Here, in verse 17, gives the details of what He is confronted with in them.
Rev 3:16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth
Rev 3:17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
*These Christians have forgotten what Christ did for them. They are no longer living in the realization that they needed, and continue to need Christ. They don't believe they need anything from anyone. Christ has a message for them, and us.

Christ is obviously profoundly upset with their response to His work. The son of the Almighty has that right.

I suspect God Himself is hurt to His core when He hears the heart of one of His creations say: "I'm saved through grace and I don't owe God anything."
I believe that's the greatest lie of present day Christian beliefs.

Ronnie T said:

Notice the way Christ identifies Himself to them:
Rev 3:14And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;
*Very impressive isn't it? All Christians should be able to acknowledge those truths.

Now Christ mentions their outer person and their inner person.
(1) He knows what their physical life is all about. (2) He also knows the inner them. They don't love Christ, and they don't hate Christ. They don't acknowledge Christ.
Rev 3:15 I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou were cold or hot.
*That's not the effect Jesus is suppose to have on people.

Here, in verse 17, gives the details of what He is confronted with in them.
Rev 3:16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth
Rev 3:17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
*These Christians have forgotten what Christ did for them. They are no longer living in the realization that they needed, and continue to need Christ. They don't believe they need anything from anyone. Christ has a message for them, and us.

Christ is obviously profoundly upset with their response to His work. The son of the Almighty has that right.

I suspect God Himself is hurt to His core when He hears the heart of one of His creations say: "I'm saved through grace and I don't owe God anything."
I believe that's the greatest lie of present day Christian beliefs.

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Sure, we owe, we are slaves to Christ. But to think that the good Christians get saved and the bad Christians get spewed. That is an oxymoran. Are we saved by grace or is it grace plus works? Or maybe saved by grace, kept by works? One more time. Works is a result, not a requirment. No works, then possibly not one of his. But this is not what the text implies. It implies that you have to be good enough. Don't throw your faith under the bus to protect your book of Revelations.

1gr8bldr said:

Sure, we owe, we are slaves to Christ. But to think that the good Christians get saved and the bad Christians get spewed. That is an oxymoran. Are we saved by grace or is it grace plus works? Or maybe saved by grace, kept by works? One more time. Works is a result, not a requirment. No works, then possibly not one of his. But this is not what the text implies. It implies that you have to be good enough. Don't throw your faith under the bus to protect your book of Revelations.

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The Christians that Jesus was writing to were not slaves to Christ.

Ronnie T said:

The Christians that Jesus was writing to were not slaves to Christ.

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But were they Christian?