I guess very few people shoot flint/percussion muzzleloaders now..

[Throwback]

I went to look around for some stuff (pyrodex powder, lead balls, patches, etc) for my percussion muzzleloader the other day. Seems all they have is inline stuff, pellets, and sabots. I know the inlines are more poplular, but how many people still shoot the "old" stuff?:huh:

I don't mind the inlines--to each his own. But I guess I'll be ordering most of mine online. :confused:

One other question, I assume you can't shoot pellets in the "old fashioned" percussion rifles (T/C Hawken, Lyman deerstalker/plains rifles, etc) at least it says "inlines only" on the pellet boxes. :huh:

T

[weagle]

When they added the week of ML season I went out and bought an inline. It worked great and I shot killed several deer with both pistol bullets in sabots and the powerbelt bullets.

Last year I went out and bought a used TC hawken and I like it much better. I'm shooting great plains conicals and triple 7. It's just a lot more fun to shoot to me.

Weagle

http://pic15.picturetrail.com/VOL592/2853877/6660839/108876500.jpg

[CAL]

That's er good lookin Hawkin for sure.Bet it shoots good too.I want me er blackpowder rifle what will shoot a round ball.I could enjoy shooting it,would be much cheaper to shoot.:shoot:




Note: Better git that greasy thang off the boss's eating table fore ya have to wear it!:rofl:

[Nicodemus]

I`m a traditionalist and shoot both flintlock and percussion rifles. From the pouch too. I get most of my supplies from rondyvoos.

Throwback, how about postin` a good pic of the rifle in your avatar. It looks nice.

[Throwback]

I`m a traditionalist and shoot both flintlock and percussion rifles. From the pouch too. I get most of my supplies from rondyvoos.

Throwback, how about postin` a good pic of the rifle in your avatar. It looks nice.

It ought to be nice! It is a pic of (one of) Jim Bridger's rifles from a museum! :cool: I was wondering who would finally ask what it was!

T

[7Mag Hunter]

CVA ---.54 Cal percussion Hawken for me....
Shoot patched round ball mostly, but sometimes conical
Maxi-Balls....
Had it for about 15 yrs....
No desire to get in-line...
Get ALL my stuff thru Midway

[Nicodemus]

Bridger did have a Samuel and Jacob Hawken Rifle. That thing looks nice layin` on that buffalo robe.

[Throwback]

Bridger did have a Samuel and Jacob Hawken Rifle. That thing looks nice layin` on that buffalo robe.

Are you a member of the AMM?

T

[jeclif]

I shoot a 50 cal cva harkin mostly it shoots best with black powder and rpb
flinch lock is not as good for me but I will keep trying

[Burl E.]

I shoot black powder in all my muzzleloaders (inline or not), Cap and ball pistol and shotgun. My inline seems to shoot better with a sabot. All the others get lead round balls. Powder, Patch and ball, the only differnce is I roll a paper cartridge for my .69 Springfield.

[moosejr]

It's gettin' tough to find primitive stuff all over the only gun shop that carried it here closed down last summer. My club buys powder in bulk so I can get it cheap( $9.00 a pound)for scheutzen. I pore my own .530 rnd balls and buy pillow ticking for $2.49 a yard at wallyworld

[Flintrock]

Nothing but tradition flintlocks for me.
.
I get my pillow ticking from wallyworld .
.
Pour my own balls.
.
Get my lead from the local metal scrap yard(soft stuff)
.
Purchased 100 + English flints from a local trader .
.
Won several lbs of powder over the years.still got about 20-25 lbs left.have not purchased any in 20 + years.
.
make my own gun cleaner . 1/3 alcohol ,1/3 hydogenporoxide , 1/3 murphys oil soap....cleans better than any over the counter stuff..
.
cant play all day as it only cost a few pennies per shot.

[Nicodemus]

Are you a member of the AMM?

T


No, but I am a member of The Scottish Freetrappers. But we are VERY disorganized. We`re all too independent for anything. :D

[Throwback]

Flintrock/Nicodemus,

What flinter would you recommed for a first one? I have a percussion, but I really want a flintlock. Nothing too expensive, and a kit gun may be doable.

Thanks.

T

[Darkhorse]

I don't own an inline but I do have 4 muzzleloaders.
A .54 Renegade caplock I bought back in 75. A .54 Lyman Great Plains Rifle in flintlock. A handbuilt Isacc Haines .54 flintlock and I'm finishing up an Isacc Haines .40 flintlock. All of these except the Renegade are left hand.
All my stuff nowadays I buy online. Mostly from Track of the Wolf or October Country. Both of these have websites. It's real hard to find .395 round balls down at the local sporting goods store.
My serious patching is pillow ticking I bought several yards of about 15 years ago at Hancock Fabrics in Warner Robins. For practice I'm lazy and load with prelubed, thinner patches.
The last blackpowder I bought I ordered 25 pounds of 2FG and 25 pounds of 3FG. I couldn't find any at all in my area.
So yes, there are still some of us around who shoot traditional black powder. Even if we are aging we are still around.
If I was going to get into flintlocks and didn't want to spend a lot of money I would have to go with either the TC Hawken or the Great Plains. I personally like the GPR because it looks more like a real plains rifle but the TC is probably a little better rifle.
The GPR kit can save you some money and these kits are an easy build. Mainly a very little inletting and finishing the wood and metal to your taste.
On the other hand there are several sources for component sets that are patterned off of original rifles of several different makers. These sets have the best quality locks and barrels. And they cost a lot more. I have right at $800. in parts in each of my Isacc Haines. And these sets will take you a couple of hundred hours to build.
I wouldn't recommend starting out with one of these. It's too easy to turn $800. worth of parts into a $400. rifle.:cry:

The reason the pellets aren't recommended for sidelocks is that you have an indirect fire path from the nipple and these things are harder to ignite than loose pyrodex or real BP.

[Throwback]

Darkhorse,

You're a man after my own heart! Not only do you shoot flintlocks (odd gun), you like odd calibers!! YE-HAW!!

I have looked at the GPR, since I have a Deerstalker, and I like the plains rifle type. but I may get a .32 for my flinter, that would make squirrel hunting feel like i was a kid again!

T

[Flintrock]

Throwback,
The rifles Darkhorse mentioned( the t/c and greatplains ) should meet your needs.
I suggest that you get one with a 1 n 66 rifle twist for shooting round balls.
Make sure it has a good quality lock.Caplocks arent picky they just have to bust a cap.The flint has to have a nice main spring and the frizzen has the be temperd currectly or it want make sparks.

What type of rifle do you currently own??. Does it have a removable Drum ( the part the screws into the side of the barrel that hold the nipple ) ?? Do you know who made the lock?..
You may be able to use your existing rifle and just swap out the drum for a vent liner about $5.00 and new flintlock ( $50 to 100) and presto. you have a flint.
If you can do this,you may have to remove a sliver of wood between the top of the lock and the current drum .

If you can and want to do this,you can call Dixie Gun works and ask them if they have a flintlock that you can fit in your existing rifle.
Let me know if I can help. Always willing to help out a traditionalist.

[moosejr]

darkhorse
i'm with throwback you sound like my kind of guy you shoot .54s and left handed. I've been shootin' RH caplocks lefty for 20 years and love my .54s sure would like have LH flinter though. I am building a brass barreled french style FL pistol with a LH lock it's a .50 smooth bore with cherry stock already got $200 wrapped up in parts and I hand made the barrel

[Darkhorse]

Flintrock,
Tell us about the Lancaster rifle on your avatar. It looks really nice. I know they feel and shoot good, that's why I went with the Isacc Haines pattern on both the .54 "C" profile and the .40 "B" profile barrel. Same feel and they weigh within a 1/2 pound of each other.

Throwback,
The .32 will make a nice squirrel gun but be aware it's not a legal caliber for deer in Georgia. A ML must be .44 cal or larger. If you start hunting squirrels with a rocklock then your going to want to hunt deer with one also.
Of course thats a real good reason to "Git another gun" and we can never have too many.
I went with the .40 because I already had 3 big game caliber ML's and I wanted to build one specifically to hunt Turkeys and small game with. The .40 bucks the wind a little better and retains more energy at longer ranges. Plus if I run into a boar down in the squirrel bottoms I'd rather shoot it with a .40 than a .32.

[CK'n]

I too am a muzzle loader fan. I bought 2 kits (both 50 cals)after getting the 36 caliber going. A flint lock with a kinda/sorta copy in Maple of the original stock. I need to try a few ideas you guys gave me to get it to ignite. The other is same thing in percussion with the original stock that came in the kit. Added a little checkering to it.

Welllll....then I got seriously bitten, made a 45 cal for match competition. Stuck it in Maple with a bit of brass trimming. One problem with that long barrel, it destroys my shoulder shoving the cleaning rod up and down it during a day of competition. Getting old is so wonderful :bounce:

The pictures:
The 36 stocked in cherry is the one that got me started: The barrel is from the rifle my great-great uncle had (early1800's) and used to feed the family. It was a 32 cal, had to "freshen" the barrel to get it shoot able again and was the only salvageable part. The stock's shape was kept very simple and elegant. It shoots better then I can now.

Then 2 pic of the flintlock - based on the TC kit:

and my baby: a 1-72 twist 45 cal in Maple, those are Lyman peep sights from a Winchester 52D that where "aged".

The percussion 50 is out of the box stock. I added a bit of checkering and nice finish, but that is it. No pics yet, -looks like Weagle's with a semi-gloss finish.

Is there a cure for shooter's knees? Somebody mumble something sounding like Jack Daniels ?:bounce:

Now if I could take a picture...hopefully the learning curve is short!

Take care,
Chris

[Nicodemus]

Throwback, I agree with the flintlock Plains Rifle. It`s a good, sturdy, and accurate rifle.

Darkhorse, could you post some pics of your guns? I`d like to see em.

[Flintrock]

.
Darkhoarse.
Thanks for the kind words . You know your guns. Only a true traditionalist would know that.
Rifle description:
45 cal Flintlock
42 inch Goetz barrel ( straight. not swamped I wanted the extra weight.)
Brass furniture with wooden patch box
Curly maple stock
Siler lock
Davis trigers
a little relief carving around the lock and rist
Has a small german siver star inlet into the cheek piece
It also has a small ring of silver around the breach of the barrel and a small strip in the center of the front sight.
.
It has easily had 10,000 shots fired thru it and counting.It still shoots great. I even wore out the frizen and had to get it reshoed.

.
Eventhough I have built 7 rifles . not the kits,( I Know you know what I mean) . I did not make this one. I ordered it/had it made back from a fine rifle maker back in 1986.
I use to use it in competition from 1987 to about 1994 but my eyes changed . It is retired from competition but it is still the only gun I take to the woods for hunting.

[Throwback]

Flint,

I have a Lyman Deerstalker. I don't think it will convert without a whole new barrel, but I may be wrong.

DH,

I know that's one reason I want a 32 squirrel rifle, cause I can get another gun!

T

[Nicodemus]

Throwback, that`s a good reason to get more of those beauties! :D

[FERAL ONE]

i started shooting frontstuffers about 10 years ago. i had a traditions 50 cal and a pedersoli 45 (the loooong one). i shot with the muscogee long rifles for a couple years but then work and family kind of took most of my time so i put the guns up for sale and did not shoot for a while. it was easier to put a cartridge in the rifle and make meat. but i admit something was missing. so last year i bought a new gun, an inline and i shot the pellets and sabots and got 5 deer with it that year, this year i got 4 deer and a hog. but still something was missing. it was a muzzleloader, but i really missed shooting round balls and i like the traditional look. i like the ease of cleaning the inline though so i compromised and got a nef sidekick, it looks more traditional but it is still an inline. i shoot loose powder and i can shoot balls or ballets with good accuracy. but i have to admit, when i see nics avatar it makes me want to go back a little farther. i found out the other week that one of my great grandfathers actually traveled with daniel boone and was with him when his son was killed so i guess i get it honest. my son would rather shoot the muzzleloaders than his centerfires so he has it bad also.i hope one day to try a flintlock and see how it feels to shoot one. i made the decision to hunt with a longbow a couple of years ago and dabbled at it till i was serious enough that i sold the compounds and never looked back. i have not "blooded" it yet but maybe this will be the year. yall just keep talkin' bout the old ways, some of us younger ones are listenin' and are very interested.

[Nicodemus]

Feral, I bet you know my old Eastern Longhunter buddies, Ed and Keith Seeley. We rondyvoo together.

[Flintrock]

i shot with the muscogee long rifles for a couple years

yall just keep talkin' bout the old ways, some of us younger ones are listenin' and are very interested.
.
.
The Muscogee long rifles are still there. I have shot there a few dozen times myself.
.

I am raising my son with the traditioanl ways.Built him a made to fit little 36 call caplock when he was 4 yrs old but he mentioned wanting a flintlock because he says they are "easier". He is now 11 and hunts with a 50 cal traditional caplock that we traded for. When he gets a little older. I will build him a flint if he still wants it.

[Flintrock]

Nic,
You ever shot at the Brushy Creek range at thier annual March shoot and rendezvous ? Dont have to be pre 1840 on the paper targets but have to on the "primate"side. Shoot, throw hawks/knives, make fire with flint and steal .

[Nicodemus]

Yessir, I spent many a weekend down there, It`s changed a little now though. We have a good one every January at Chehaw Park in Albany too. That`s where the pic in my avatar was taken at.

[MULE]

Here's mine hanging over the back door. Its one of the cheaper ones, I really want a nice custom one done bad.

[Slasher]

Dad burn it!!! I had been lookin at at caplocks (dixie & midsouth) for the last two years and keep telling my self, "nah... you don't need one... muzzleloader is only a week and mamma is usually fed up with ya enuff by the third week of archery that ya need to lay low around the house, so you can fall back off the wagon during the rut!!!!"

Well, I had myself talked outta all that foolishness...and here you guys go keeping this thread up day after day after day.... you get a fella thinkin... "man a deerstalker, a trade rifle, or a GPR with a peep in .54 cal would fit the bill nicely"

now see what ya done:biggrin2:

[Throwback]

slasher,

a deerstalker/GPR ain't that expensive...::ke:

Then again, you could get one of these..

http://www.blackhartlongarms.com/

T

[Darkhorse]

Nicodemus, I don't have a photobucket account but I need to get one. As soon as I get the .40 finished I'll post photos of both the ones I built. It will still be a couple of weeks I put the final (maybe) coat of finish on the wood today. Now I need to finish the metal, this one has iron (steel) mounts and will be browned, and then tune the lock and triggers, and make a new front sight. I made one out of a quarter but I don't really like it. Too narrow for these older eyes.

Flintlock, The .54 has a Colrain barrel and the .40 has a LC Rice. I had Mr. Rice make this barrel for me and it took 4 months till delivery. The finish is really nice I just hope it shoots up to expectations. I talked to Don and John Getz but at that time they couldn't promise me a barrel for about a year. Maybe next time. Both of these are 38" swamped but my next one will either be a 42" .45 straight southern mountain for match shooting or maybe a 42" B profile .50 in a Lancaster, or maybe both.

Does anybody know Benny Coogle from Oglethorpe. He was sorta my mentor way back when. Got me on the right track with patches and so forth. I never knew a flinter could shoot so good until I watched him shoot a deer rifle match offhand at 100 yards back in 75. After that I knew I had to have one.
Back then I shot at a lot of BP matches around the state including Americus, Fort valley, Macon County, Carrolton (Cherokee bark busters) and the Southeastern regionals at River bend gun club. I'm sure a lot of these small clubs we shot at have long since folded.
It's been a long time since I shot competition but I know I don't focus on that rear sight well anymore so any matches I attended now would be for fun only. I don't think I could be competitive.

[Darkhorse]

Slasher, What do you mean "Blackpowder season is only a week"?
It lasts all season for me. The best time to kill a big buck with a flintlock is during the rut not during that one week the state uses to sell extra licenses.
Plus that big white cloud of smoke just looks better hanging in cold, frosty still air than it does hanging in a cloud of humidity and skeeters.

[Nicodemus]

Darkhorse, Benny Coogle is a friend of mine, and one of the characters of the Chehaw Rondyvoo. He`s also the main entertainment after the saturday night Round Robin Trade Blanket. It`s worth any buckskinners` time to set within listenin` distance when he fires up that geetar to play those old songs around the fire.He doesn`t know it yet, but he`s gonna make me a Tennessee Po Boy with a curly maple stock before it`s over with! I`ve got an old original silver quarter that will be used for the front sight. :D

All of ya`ll are invited to come spend the weekend with us at this event. I`ll post more details in plenty of time.

[CK'n]

around here?

Nicodemus, could you add a little info for the unenlightened? (where, when, special events, etc.) Thanks!

Mr. Throwback, those rifles you sent the link to look at are phenomenal. I looked at his prices.... I hope they are that low because he hasn't updated his site in awhile. I'd go broke at the rate he is charging! They are certainly worth more.

Really gorgeous, makes me almost want to change my business from modern to ML's. :( Gotta pay the bills though.

Take care,
Chris

[CK'n]

Darkhorse,

Don't stop shooting yet. They are still shooting meat matches. I think they are the 4th Sat or Sun of the month and go almost all year round. If you are interested, PM me and I will find out for you.

Since it is a match, you do not have to be a member. Just show up. The competition is very laid back, not to say there aren't some terrific shots, just a pretty easy going crowd.

And as for eye sight - well, let's just say you are not the only one trying to figure out which black dot out there is a target, much less is it mine?!


Take care,
Chris

[TurkeyCreek]

Throwback,

I have a T/C .45 Hawken that I've had since the early 80's. Killed a few deer with it too, all during regular gun season. Would like to one day get a flintlock.

[Flintrock]

Slasher, What do you mean "Blackpowder season is only a week"?
It lasts all season for me. The best time to kill a big buck with a flintlock is during the rut not during that one week the state uses to sell extra licenses.
Plus that big white cloud of smoke just looks better hanging in cold, frosty still air than it does hanging in a cloud of humidity and skeeters.
.
Agree 100%:cheers:
.
After bow season. Its flintlocks only for me.
,
Still trying to figure how to shoot an arrow in my flint for bow season .Figured if they can call an inline with a scope a primitive weapon. Then why cant a use a arrow in my flintlock and call it a bow :huh: ::ke:

[Flintrock]

Darkhoarse.
I have'nt scene Benny in a few years. Does he still have the 100 cal Flintlock he made out of a truck axel. 4 balls to the pound. ..very unique.

[Hawken2222]

I shoot a 50 cal TC Hawken with 85 grains of fff black powder, and a patch & ball. I have killed several deer with this gun, and it is suprisingly accurate out to 100 yards.

[Slasher]

Slasher, What do you mean "Blackpowder season is only a week"?
It lasts all season for me. The best time to kill a big buck with a flintlock is during the rut not during that one week the state uses to sell extra licenses.
Plus that big white cloud of smoke just looks better hanging in cold, frosty still air than it does hanging in a cloud of humidity and skeeters.

Yeah well after bow season its my lil boys turn ... and if not him then my lil princess (weather permitting) So... This year it focussing on getting them into it or taking them with... so probably won't be this year...

But I feel the pull...

[Throwback]

Dang ya'll are killing me! I gotta smell that powder burning! I wish it would cool down so it would be enjoyable!

T

[Nicodemus]

I`ll try to get somes times and dates for some rondyvoos up soon.

[LJay]

Dang Nick, ain't it time to go a huntin' yet??????

[CK'n]

jimminy crickets! That 4 balls to a pound -wow- a 4 bore is mean. I was dumb enough to shoot one once - that had a 1500 grain ball in front of 220 grains of BP. That was supposedly a half load of powder.... not nice! I had enough sense not to try that again. Some one took a picture of me stuffing my .50 cal barrel a little ways into the bore of that thing to get a good prespective of just how big it is.

Flintlock, if a crossbow can have a scope, a tube to guide the bolt, and what you hang on to looks like a rifle stock....well what is it to augment that bow string with a little BP? That bow string would have a metal catch to hold the bolt. Some thing like a breech plug? hmmmmm....


naw, wouldn't work, who am I kidding?

well imagination is fun though

Take care,
Chris

[moosejr]

I built a small swivel gun 18" barrel 1" bore shoots 1200gr. roundballs and 300gr bp it's on a tripod and I still won't hang on to it. that 4 bore's gotta be mean.....

[Darkhorse]

Back in those days I lived in Macon County, a lot of my family's from there. I haven't seen Benny in quite a few years. The last time I saw him was at a BP match in Fort Valley and he was demonstrating one of his mortars he builds. He used a can (beer probably) filled with concrete as the projectile and used about 1/2 pound of 2fg each shot. That thing would really lob that projectile a long ways with no tumbling.
The last time I talked to him on the phone he said he was into smoothbores and had started making smoothbore barrels.
I keep thinking I'll attend one of these Rondys one day and run into him, just haven't done it yet.

[leoparddog]

I shoot a Hawkins style side lock. I have used the powder pellets in it, but couldn't get it to group worth a darn with them.

[CK'n]

I would like to build one of those noise makers.. a small cannon or huge bore tripod mounted gun. Doesn't have to be particularly accurate, just a noise maker and smokescreen producer. The kids around here kinda go over board once in awhile with the fireworks. I have wondered what I could do with a little "mature" tinkering. Have a lathe, mill, welder, etc I use for gunsmithing. Now how to make one that is safe to fire....the only thing that has held me back. Oh ya, I don't really want to hold it. That 4 bore taught me a lesson I won't soon forget (I'm 6'-2 @ 260 lbs), getting stomped on is not an option I want to consider.

How did you guys make yours... I would like to try to copy one already proven to be safe to fire (please take my copying as flattery) . I am too old to willingly go through all that crying, pain, bandages, etc. any more experimenting!


Thanks in advance,
Chris

[Flintrock]

One other question, I assume you can't shoot pellets in the "old fashioned" percussion rifles (T/C Hawken, Lyman deerstalker/plains rifles, etc) at least it says "inlines only" on the pellet boxes. :huh:

T
.
Sorry Throwback, A little slow but sure. I overlooked your question.
.
You are correct. You can't shoot the pellets in a traditional sidelock because the pellets stay in the breech of the barrel and do not turn the corner to enter into the drum area,therefore, the fire from the exploding cap is going into a empty drum.
Powerdex is hard to ignite and inconsistant .For tighter groups try blackpowder or another substitute

[moosejr]

I started out with a 22" piece of 3" cold roll shaft, I left it full size for about 4" inches on the breach end and tapered it to 2-1/2" about an inch and a half from the muzzle then flaired it back up to just under 3" at the muzzle. Before turning it I bored my barrel first with a 1/2" bit then 31/32 and finaly a 1" reamer. I left 2" of meat at the breach end. (I chose not to bore it through. I figgered a solid breach would be stronger plus a lot less work.) With a 1" hole that left me with 1" walls at the breach. I turned a seperate handle and threaded it into the breach end for looks.:D :D I'll try to get some pics and post then if I can figure out how.:huh: Hope this helps. The trunions are slotted and bolted to the bottem of the barrel and I cut the swivel out of a solid piece of 3" thick by 5" wide steel, I know this sounds like alot of work but it only took me about 4 weeks (nights and weekends) from start to finish. I sure have alot of fun with mine, It's a big hit at the rondies.:cool:

[CK'n]

this gives me enough to get started... how much powder did you say you used?

Thanks & look forward to the photos!
Chris

[moosejr]

I,m useing 300gr. ffg behind a 15/16 patched round ball, for makin' noise just replace the ball with a wad of damp news paper. Here's the only pic I got right now. Makes a good avitar don't it.:shoot: :shoot: :shoot:

[Southbow]

I have a .50 cal Hawken made for Cabela's that I bought about 10 years ago. I've been hunting with a longbow for the last 6 years, but I'm thinking about taking the Hawken some this year. I saw a new foam cleaner in one of the catalogs. Is this stuff worth using? Is there a better alternative for cleaning?

thanks,
chris

[CK'n]

The legs heavy enough on that thing? (4x4's?) 300gr is not so bad. I am seriously looking into making a copy of it.

One of the best cleaners I have found for BP is Ballistol. It is not the best smelling stuff (kinda like sweat socks in a gym bag). It does a very good job removing powder residue and seems to have an amazing ability to prevent corrosion. You mix it with water...yet the metal won't corrode. It has been around since something like the beginning of WW2.

I like it.

Thanks,
Chris

[Throwback]

Now HERE is a cool website!
http://www.longrifle.ws/

Reckon how much his horns cost...:cry:

http://www.longrifle.ws/artisans/pics/ron_1.jpg

T

[moosejr]

The legs heavy enough on that thing? (4x4's?) 300gr is not so bad. I am seriously looking into making a copy of it.

I like it.

Thanks,
Chris

Ya, a friend had some spare oak layin' around. He glued up the legs and planed them to fit into the 4x4 tubing I used for my top cap. The legs slide out for transport.