Legal help with a contractor?

Here's the back story first. I own a home that I describe as "half house, half trailer ". This place is a 1970 something double wide. My momma and my stepdad use to own it and it's were I grew up. When they decided they wanted to move I said I wanted it. My moms name is on the loan but my name is on the deed. I have made the payments for the last 8 years. Over the years I have spent money trying to convert it over to a real house. Last year I landed a new job with 7 months of 80 plus hours a week. That means no time for me to do work to the place but extra money to fix it up and quickly. I have spent $8000 since September to February sheet rocking rooms, bathrooms, paint, new sink, toilet, tub, and finally new FLOORS.
So a lot of the house has been worked on but there is still a bathroom to do, hallway, one bedroom, and the kitchen to do and the inside is done. The outside is about halfway done also.
I have a contractor that I am not going to name come into our home and do the floors. Holes have been coming up in the old sub floor which is old particle board. A little moisture hits it and over time it desinagrates.
So the plan we came up with , with the contractor was to fix the holes and put a new layer of half inch osb over it. After two days he calls and says it's done and they didn't have to cover ,they just replaced most of the old particle board. This old particle board had thousands of staples and glue holding it down so I had my doubts as soon as I got off the phone with him.
I go by the house to check it out and everything looks really good. I'm on the phone with my wife walking around checking it all out saying how good it was when I get into the latest room to be renovated (Sheetrock, paint, new recepticals) I find a week spot in the floor. It hadn't been replaced. My wife gets to the house and she notices a spot where a hole used to be and there is a about a 2' by 2' square. It dips down. I got a sneaking suspension that if I pull the new carpet up I am going to find patch jobs and not the whole floor being replaced. The point of doing this was to prevent future holes not just to fix holes.
I don't have a contract but I have an invoice for material and some small descriptions of what was to be done.
We are far from people who want to sue someone but I can't get the guy back out there to do anything. He can keep the money for the carpet and padding but I need money back so I can have someone do it the right way.

Good luck. Fat chance.




Probably not a factual enough answer for the forum. The odds of you getting any money back are slim and none, and slim done left town.

You can ask, but when he says not just "no" but "heck no" then you will be back asking the same question. Under the circumstances, even suing would be about 50-50.

What does the invoice say?

Next time, don't pay until you inspect.

Unless he signed the "list of things to do",you hired a handyman and they're not bound the way a contractor is.

It's been my experience that you have to be there. Too late for that but sometimes lessons are painful and expensive. This isn't the 60's anymore. Professionalism has almost disappeared.

Good luck.

rayjay said:

It's been my experience that you have to be there. Too late for that but sometimes lessons are painful and expensive. This isn't the 60's anymore. Professionalism has almost disappeared.

Good luck.

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We definitely learned that.

calibob1 said:

Unless he signed the "list of things to do",you hired a handyman and they're not bound the way a contractor is.

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Is he considered a handyman if he has a showroom that has been in place for 30 years with a website to boost.

RUGERWARRIOR said:

Is he considered a handyman if he has a showroom that has been in place for 30 years with a website to boost.

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Well...seeing that he has a showroom and a website...could always go the social media route. Tell him to fix the issues, or you'll leave bad reviews.

I think you may be in trouble if you don't have a written scope of work to compare the work against.

Pic of invoice.

This includes material and describes what is to be done in the 5th line. Again, I made sure I didn't get the company name in the pic.

Stuff like that I like to check out before paying unless I know them. When we do a job for someone we haven't worked for before they usually check it out good before paying. You can always tell if someone has got burned before because they cross all t's and dot all i's. I can't blame them though. Like mechanic work, I hate having to have someone work on my stuff cause half the time it's not fixed right.

RUGERWARRIOR said:

This includes material and describes what is to be done in the 5th line. Again, I made sure I didn't get the company name in the pic.

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I would say the "repair holes" description covers him. He did not spec replacement of sub-floor, only repairing holes.

dawg2 said:

I would say the "repair holes" description covers him. He did not spec replacement of sub-floor, only repairing holes.

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THIS, Are they Holes or weak spots.
The contract didn't say WEAK Spots...it said Holes.
Pull up the carpet and look. Ya'll should have been there when the old carpet was ripped up...and before the new carpet was laid.

OSB in 1/2 inch in good for a Jon Boat deck but pretty thin for a Floor

If he won't make good on his work, you can always file a claim in magistrates/small claims court. Maybe the threat of him having to waste a day at the courthouse will motivate him to make it right.

No guarantees you'd win, but the threat may work.

Thanks for all the replies. We have a friend of the family who is a contractor get in contact with him. He told him either he could fix it or he was gonna have a crew come out and fix it and record the whole process and post it somewhere. I guess Facebook or something. He seems to be open to coming and looking at our concerns now. We will see.

swamp hunter said:

THIS, Are they Holes or weak spots.
The contract didn't say WEAK Spots...it said Holes.
Pull up the carpet and look. Ya'll should have been there when the old carpet was ripped up...and before the new carpet was laid.

OSB in 1/2 inch in good for a Jon Boat deck but pretty thin for a Floor

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It says fix holes before underlayment goes down. The 1/2" osb is laying on the 3/4" partical board should dispers the weight good. It has work well in a room I did a few years ago. The only room he didn't have to touch.

I don't see much good coming from pursuing him. You take it before a judge, and even if you win the case, all you have is a ruling. You then have to hire a collection agency. How vindictive do you want to be?

What you can do is eviscerate him on review sites. Which is actually, pretty effective. One unhappy customer, airing it out on kudzu, can really kill business.

Now for the fix:

The floor is sagging, because it does not have Tongue & Groove supporting the space between joists. You cut 2x4's to fit between the floor joists. Smear them with PL400. Press the 2bys up to the seams, and bridge the two boards. A helper on top, screws the deck down to the 2bys on both sides of the seam.

You may be able to do this by yourself from the top. If your contractor didn't bother with glue. Chances are, he didn't. Just pull the nails, and lift the scab out.

If he made any 2' x 8' patches, block it every two feet. Or replace it with two 4' scabs. OSB stands for oriented strand board. The oriented strands need to run perpindicular to the joists. The whole scab will sag and bust out when run parallel.

two points

1-- I don't know enough about sub-flooring and construction to know exactly what he promised to do, what he actually did, and whether any variation between the two is something that contractors and customers can expect as wriggle room / gray area / contractor's implied permission to use his professional judgment in deciding what boards to pull up and replace versus which to keep.

However, there are other people in the building trades who are experts and can answer these questions. So that's the first line of inquiry. Was there a meeting of the minds as to what work was going to be done? Was it definite enough to be enforceable by a court later as a matter of contract law? Can the defects be proven and shown to be a violation of "the deal"? You may have to pull up that carpet, show it to others, take picture, etc.

2-- I have a feeling (just a gut feeling, not a legal opinion or evaluation) that a lawsuit in this case would be difficult to win, and not worth the effort for the amount of money you're talking just for this sub-flooring problem. It doesn't sound like fraud or bad faith. Your "contract" (if there is one at all) doesn't have a clause providing for attorneys fees or costs. Litigating this would likely be "throwing good money after bad."

It's probably better to pressure him, first privately and then (after you've had an expert in construction tell you you're right and this builder did wrong) in public. Pressure him to come back and do the job over, or add some additional braces, etc. to keep the floor from sagging.

So he didnt install the 1/2" under layment that is clearly stated on his invoice. He just patched holes. His work order says he is doing both.
He should pull the carpet and pad then do what his work order says. plain and simple

Wild Turkey said:

So he didnt install the 1/2" under layment that is clearly stated on his invoice. He just patched holes. His work order says he is doing both.
He should pull the carpet and pad then do what his work order says. plain and simple

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Yes sir, that's how it ought to be handled.
I work for a national home exterior remodeling chain, If we didn't do what was in the contract we would come and do it all over just like the contract stated, with no extra cost to the customer, including the cost of new materials.
Also, if it stated we would install plywood over the existing sub-floor and didn't, someone would be looking for a new job...