"Coyote" NONSELECTIVE Poison Federal cyanide trap injures boy, kills dog

[NCHillbilly]

I find it odd that you side with the farmer when it comes to permit hunting Nic but don't side with the rancher on this issue.

People who raise sheep here keep them fenced in and keep a big Pyrenees dog in the pasture. And they do it on their own land, not on welfare public-land deals where everybody has a right to access it.

And if you don't understand what's wrong with indiscriminately poisoning wildlife, then you just don't get it and never will. I'm not Nic, but I'd say we share a similar opinion on poisoning coyotes along with anything else that comes along.

 

[across the river]

A "park?" I think you're confusing rural Idaho with the suburbs of Atlanta or somewhere. In the country, kids play in the woods, not in a "park."

I grew up in the country, but I didn't go wandering around the woods or riding my dirt bike or three wheeler on land I didn't have permission to be on. If I had, and fell in a well, ran into a fence, or set a M-44 off, my parents wouldn't have blamed the landowner for me getting hurt. I have been out west. Most of the BLM land is barren land. Some of it is closed, some of it you can't get to because it is surrounded by private property, some of it has oil, gas leases on it you can't get to. Some of it has "parks" or other public areas for people to be on. Until someone finds out where the kid was, I think it is pointless to discuss it. I personally just don't get this mentality that people, kids or not, are suppose to be able to just wander around wherever they want. I lived a long way from much of anything, but I never thought I had the right or reason to just wander around on someone else property.

 

[Nicodemus]

I find it odd that you side with the farmer when it comes to permit hunting Nic but don't side with the rancher on this issue.

Many here don`t understand my thoughts, but if you`ll read the writings of Aldo Leopold, you`ll get some insight into how I think. Also, do a search of my posts on the brush wolf issue here in the South, and that will help. Remember too, I`m not just in the woods on the weekend and the occasional week off for vacation. I`m out there nearly everyday, and I do a lot of observing. I know for a fact that these animals do more good than harm on a HEALTHY ECOSYSTEM. The reason I know is 24 years of observation on a particular large section of woods and swamp. I live right on the edge of it. In this time I have watched turkeys return, and wild quail flourish, in spite of predators of every kind in Georgia other than bears. Deer? We probably have more than any other part of this state. Since trapping furbearers is not longer profitable, coons and possums are more plentiful than ever, but brush wolves help keep them in check, along with eating many other nest raiding varmints. We don`t even have many dillers anymore. Nature evens everything out for the good. Man is the one who has to figure out how to fit in, with as little disturbance as possible. This means knowing the carrying capacity of your land, knowing what is on your land, and only taking enough from it so that balance is kept. It`s not hard to do.

As for siding with the farmer, I always will because I come from farming people. I`ll be the first out there to kill a varmint or varmints when they become a pest and start doing damage to domestic stock. This doesn`t mean that I will or even want to wipe them off the face of the earth. As soon as I was big enough to keep both ends of a shotgun off the ground at the same time, I was taught that there are critters and there are varmints. I was also taught that there is a very thin but distinct line between a critter and a varmint, and that a critter can cross that line and become a varmint. When that happens, it will be dealt with. That`s how I was raised, and I haven`t and won`t change.

People who raise sheep here keep them fenced in and keep a big Pyrenees dog in the pasture. And they do it on their own land, not on welfare public-land deals where everybody has a right to access it.

And if you don't understand what's wrong with indiscriminately poisoning wildlife, then you just don't get it and never will. I'm not Nic, but I'd say we share a similar opinion on poisoning coyotes along with anything else that comes along.

Yep.

 

[DAVE]

One human death in 87 years of use in America, to a man who was not treated after penetration to his hand, not a bad safety record. I don't kill coyotes or any other predator but I don't have a problem with people trying to control their numbers any more than I do with people who put out rat poison.

 

[pine floor]

Then you are

Special I GUESS. DO YOU HAVE KIDS.. Maybe not. This is not about hunting, its about stupid people putting stuppid things in places and then wanting your Government to take control.

Carru on my friend.

 

[Throwback]

By the m-44 or it's predecessor the "coyote getter"?

The "coyote getter" it's hard to find the accounts, being so long ago, killed a guy in 66, shot a 15 yr old in the eye in 59 and got 17 more people from 65 to 71.

The m-44 got a woman in 94 that was set on HER PRIVATE PROPERTY by a USDA employee, poisoned one in 03 that the USDA denied responsibility for even though it left the man with severe health problems, another in 06 and now another in 2017



It's pointless to mention Australia, Australia has 23 Mil. people living in 2.97 million SQ miles, the US has 318 million people with 3.7 mil. SQ miles, 14 times as many people with just 1 mil. SQ miles more, New York state has just as many people living within it's 54,556 SQ miles as Australia does in the entire country.

Like comparing a grape to watermelon.

idaho has 20.1 people per square mile
georgia has 165 people per square mile

 

[shdw633]

People who raise sheep here keep them fenced in and keep a big Pyrenees dog in the pasture. And they do it on their own land, not on welfare public-land deals where everybody has a right to access it.

But your not here!!! That's my point, you don't know the circumstances out there, it's a different world, no different then the north and the south when it comes to dog hunting. People in the north show great disdain for people that dog hunt, yet it's a proud tradition that is carried on to this day down here. You want people in the north telling you how you should live your life? Or how to deal with the issues that are plaguing you on a day to day basis. My point was you don't have the whole story and you don't have to deal with the situations out there so I don't think your statements of how to handle it is warranted. Walk in the shoes of those you condemn before you climb upon that pedestal to render justice is all I'm saying.

 

[Dustin]

I find it odd that you side with the farmer when it comes to permit hunting Nic but don't side with the rancher on this issue.

Black bear, Elk, Cougar, Bison, Wolves, Jaguar(to an extent), Carolina parakeet, Heath hen, Bobwhite quail, Passenger Pigeon, along with many other species that have been killed down to nothing or totally wiped out from the southeast were at once looked at as a nuisance, you see how it works out when humans looks at something like it doesn't belong... you end up 100 yrs later wishing you had it back.

Over the last 400 yrs people have ruined this country by thinking that way, what we have now is nothing compared to what was here then.

 

[Dustin]

I grew up in the country, but I didn't go wandering around the woods or riding my dirt bike or three wheeler on land I didn't have permission to be on. If I had, and fell in a well, ran into a fence, or set a M-44 off, my parents wouldn't have blamed the landowner for me getting hurt. I have been out west. Most of the BLM land is barren land. Some of it is closed, some of it you can't get to because it is surrounded by private property, some of it has oil, gas leases on it you can't get to. Some of it has "parks" or other public areas for people to be on. Until someone finds out where the kid was, I think it is pointless to discuss it. I personally just don't get this mentality that people, kids or not, are suppose to be able to just wander around wherever they want. I lived a long way from much of anything, but I never thought I had the right or reason to just wander around on someone else property.

Glad I didn't grow up where you did, even to this day around here neighbor kids going through the woods playing are a common thing.

 

[across the river]

One human death in 87 years of use in America, to a man who was not treated after penetration to his hand, not a bad safety record. I don't kill coyotes or any other predator but I don't have a problem with people trying to control their numbers any more than I do with people who put out rat poison.

Yet there are hundreds of accidental deaths in this country due to gun incidents. I wonder if these same people want to ban guns.

 

[Dustin]

Yet there are hundreds of accidental deaths in this country due to gun incidents. I wonder if these same people want to ban guns.

and cars account for around 30 times the amount that guns do, unintentional poisoning accounts for even more that cars... lets start by banning those high numbers first.

I have a problem with poisoning wildlife in the first place, it gets even worse when people get involved and hurt by it.

It's obvious the usda isn't accomplishing much by poisoning since they only got 75,326 coyotes in 2013 (one of the higher yield years, they killed over 5 million animals).

birds were the bulk, 2,336,840 invasive birds, 2,041,615 native birds, they killed nearly as many non target birds as they did target birds.

of the 574,390 mammals they killed they reported, 75,326 coyotes, 24,390 beavers, 23,153 Canada geese, 18,656 Cormorants, 9,121 Crows, 6,498 Vultures, 5,528 Herring gull, 4,810 Whitetail, 2,378 Cliff swallows, 2,122 Killdeers, 866 bobcats, 631 Great blue herons, 419 Black bears, 194 Barn owls, 57 Ospreys, 21 Eastern bluebirds , 5 Snowy owls and 1 Flying squirrel.

What the other 400,214 non target animals that were killed that they didn't include in the report is anyones guess.

I'm no tree hugger, I'm a hunter, have no problem killing an animal for food, farm or wild... but that does irritate me a little, to say the least, at how many animals they are wasting... A rancher may see those coyotes as a problem, a trapper see's them as money.

 

[pine floor]

Dang

Is this a fact, just asking. I still stick with Nic And NCH. I don't think you can annihilate something that was here way before you or anyone.

Some may discover that facts are facts, and some may discover a sand box is buried below.

PF

 

[Silver Britches]

Does it have an affect on the predatory birds that feed on the carcasses?

Or any other wildlife that feeds on the carcasses?

And I find it very disturbing that some on here think that using a device like this is okay. Private land or not, I just don't agree with putting something as dangerous as this out in the wild. Nothing but a disaster waiting to happen. Incredibly bad idea!

Also, there's another method I've heard of people using to try and kill coyotes- which I won't repeat here. It's an extreme danger to all other wildlife as well.

 

[Throwback]

and cars account for around 30 times the amount that guns do, unintentional poisoning accounts for even more that cars... lets start by banning those high numbers first.

I have a problem with poisoning wildlife in the first place, it gets even worse when people get involved and hurt by it.

It's obvious the usda isn't accomplishing much by poisoning since they only got 75,326 coyotes in 2013 (one of the higher yield years, they killed over 5 million animals).

birds were the bulk, 2,336,840 invasive birds, 2,041,615 native birds, they killed nearly as many non target birds as they did target birds.

of the 574,390 mammals they killed they reported, 75,326 coyotes, 24,390 beavers, 23,153 Canada geese, 18,656 Cormorants, 9,121 Crows, 6,498 Vultures, 5,528 Herring gull, 4,810 Whitetail, 2,378 Cliff swallows, 2,122 Killdeers, 866 bobcats, 631 Great blue herons, 419 Black bears, 194 Barn owls, 57 Ospreys, 21 Eastern bluebirds , 5 Snowy owls and 1 Flying squirrel.

What the other 400,214 non target animals that were killed that they didn't include in the report is anyones guess.

I'm no tree hugger, I'm a hunter, have no problem killing an animal for food, farm or wild... but that does irritate me a little, to say the least, at how many animals they are wasting... A rancher may see those coyotes as a problem, a trapper see's them as money.

A lot of those species (geese especially) come from places like airports where it's a life or death situations and hunting is not practical.

 

[across the river]

Is this a fact, just asking. I still stick with Nic And NCH. I don't think you can annihilate something that was here way before you or anyone.

Some may discover that facts are facts, and some may discover a sand box is buried below.

PF

Passenger pigeons would disagree with you, as would the caribbean monk seal and a host of other animals.

 

[Browning Slayer]

I agree, I don't think anybody anywhere has any reason to be putting these things out in the woods.

^^This^^...

Poison does not belong in the woods. If you can get a yote to tug on this device using bait, why not use a leg trap?

 

[shdw633]

^^This^^...

Poison does not belong in the woods. If you can get a yote to tug on this device using bait, why not use a leg trap?

Most likely due to the amount of land that they would have to cover would not make that practical and this would be the most humane way for the animal not to suffer.

 

[Browning Slayer]

Most likely due to the amount of land that they would have to cover would not make that practical and this would be the most humane way for the animal not to suffer.

The trap was 500 yards from the boy's home so it's not that remote.

 

[NCHillbilly]

Passenger pigeons would disagree with you, as would the caribbean monk seal and a host of other animals.

I think he was actually saying that he feels that annihilating things that were there long before us is wrong and that we don't have the right to do that; not that it isn't possible.

 

[nickel back]

some times I find myself asking if shdw633 is the biggsteve of the hunting forum.

anyways, off to edit my ignore list