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Gone But Not Forgotten
Like I said, a small mind. Yet I am able to dismiss the Flying Spaghetti Monster and others fairly easily.
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Converting the dying
- Thread starter atlashunter
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Like I said, a small mind. Yet I am able to dismiss the Flying Spaghetti Monster and others fairly easily.
atlashunter
Senior Member
How about El Elyon, the god of Abraham and father of Yahweh? Does he get dismissed too?
WaltL1
Senior Member
All religious/believe or not believe stuff aside -Patience is a virtue bullethead, quit chirping
So lets see, I don't have a child however I do have 3 beautiful step kids. Matter of fact one of them was turned against his mom by his daddy and we hardly ever see or hear a word. No I would not nor would his mom quit loving him nor sentence them to eternal torture. However it takes 2 to have a relationship as I mentioned prior to this. We can send messages, letters, emails to him and call him. We cannot make him answer the phone or reply back to us. However any given time he needs something(not often) and reaches out we are there to make it happen and take care of it. Just in the last 2 years I have watched him grow farther from his mom and less and less contact with her. Kind of goes along with what bible mentions of heart growing hard creating more and more distance and resistance to be close with his mom. Even though he has seen what his dad done to his mom, and knows it was not right he was lead by another(his dad) or in a biblical sense, led by the world. To hear a mom say she would give her life for her child and he won't even try to have a relationship with her is pretty deep.
So see we have myself and my wife who are there for him, we can knock all day but he has to open that door. Until he is ready to make that first step away from his dad(the world) there cannot be a relationship. We cannot advise him not to do this or that because he will not seek council with us. He seeks it from his dad(the world) and probably why in the last 2 years his grades have went from straight A and B to C and D. He chose the wrong path that was broad instead of the narrow way. Had he seeked council with us we could have helped him maintain those grades. God help where he could end up if he doesn't get on that narrow path but we can do nothing but pray for him and her ex. The Ex was called to preach, stood 2 times and said this ain't for me. He lost his business, where he lived, the most caring, nourishing wife anyone could ever have. All of the problems and issues started right after he quit obeying God. Prayers have went up that their beds be hard and their sheets be short that both of them will do what they know in their hearts to be right. Last time I seen her Ex at a wedding he could hardly get around. Done Rambling
1. My hat is off to you for willing to continue to be there for him should he need you. Particularly with him being a step child.
2. As one who went down the wrong road and distanced myself from my parents, I sincerely hope that like me, he reaches a point in his life where he wants nothing more than to repair the damage done and that its not too late to accomplish that.
Ok back to
now.
PopPop
Gone But Not Forgotten
Yep. The quest for knowledge of what can't be known tormented me for a large part of my life. I won't trade in it again. I have discovered that I cannot know and neither can you. I do question my Faith and then find the Peace it delivers.
Lots of very intelligent people have reasoned themselves into knowing the things that can't be known, just as I did. Faith is funny like that, might it be possible that Faith is the ultimate grasp of knowledge. Rather than wondering why God allows children starve in Africa, maybe we should ask, why do we let children starve in Africa? Would that not be a more productive quest? I can see it also being the answer to why God lets Children starve in Africa.
I don't know who coined the phrase,"if you are praying for potatoes, you'd better have a hoe", but I like it.
bullethead
Of the hard cast variety
Patience is a virtue bullethead, quit chirping
So lets see, I don't have a child however I do have 3 beautiful step kids. Matter of fact one of them was turned against his mom by his daddy and we hardly ever see or hear a word. No I would not nor would his mom quit loving him nor sentence them to eternal torture. However it takes 2 to have a relationship as I mentioned prior to this. We can send messages, letters, emails to him and call him. We cannot make him answer the phone or reply back to us. However any given time he needs something(not often) and reaches out we are there to make it happen and take care of it. Just in the last 2 years I have watched him grow farther from his mom and less and less contact with her. Kind of goes along with what bible mentions of heart growing hard creating more and more distance and resistance to be close with his mom. Even though he has seen what his dad done to his mom, and knows it was not right he was lead by another(his dad) or in a biblical sense, led by the world. To hear a mom say she would give her life for her child and he won't even try to have a relationship with her is pretty deep.
So see we have myself and my wife who are there for him, we can knock all day but he has to open that door. Until he is ready to make that first step away from his dad(the world) there cannot be a relationship. We cannot advise him not to do this or that because he will not seek council with us. He seeks it from his dad(the world) and probably why in the last 2 years his grades have went from straight A and B to C and D. He chose the wrong path that was broad instead of the narrow way. Had he seeked council with us we could have helped him maintain those grades. God help where he could end up if he doesn't get on that narrow path but we can do nothing but pray for him and her ex. The Ex was called to preach, stood 2 times and said this ain't for me. He lost his business, where he lived, the most caring, nourishing wife anyone could ever have. All of the problems and issues started right after he quit obeying God. Prayers have went up that their beds be hard and their sheets be short that both of them will do what they know in their hearts to be right. Last time I seen her Ex at a wedding he could hardly get around. Done Rambling
Exactly.
All the rest is anecdotal filler.
Why would you not make him suffer for eternity for turning his back on his mother and you?
Israel
BANNED
That's right. There's not a thing "noble" to it. Every bit of favor is being done me. All and every bit of what I don't deserve, could never deserve, and have in practice...resisted, even to its withholding toward others...remains speaking to me.
I have not one thing that hasn't been "given to me" by a grace I cannot fathom.
atlashunter
Senior Member
The question was a simple one based on scripture. I assume you're a monotheist yet even your god of choice originated out of polytheism. There is scripture (biblical inerrancy?) that indicates the god of Abraham is a different god from Yahweh. That's problematic for Abrahamic monotheism. We can run away from good questions and call it faith but that doesn't make the questions go away. There are truthful answers to the difficult questions. I've never understood those who prefer not to seek them out.
atlashunter
Senior Member
You're talking in circles. Justice is getting what you deserve.
Israel
BANNED
Till one knows they are only in a position to beg mercy, they believe they are fit to call for justice.
Among men, I have never seen it any other way. And justice revealed will make one beg for mercy.
j_seph
Senior Member
Because of Love for him. No matter how much Love his mom has combined with mine, until he is ready and makes his freewill choice all we can do is love him, pray for him. The door is open, he has to make THE choice. If his daddy(world) ain't telling him what he is doing is dangerous where we would and he gets killed doing it, no matter how much love we have, his choices effected by his daddy(world) would be the reasoning it happened.
j_seph
Senior Member
Thank you sir, funny his mom said that she hoped and prayed that it doesn't take her death to finally see it/get it.All religious/believe or not believe stuff aside -
1. My hat is off to you for willing to continue to be there for him should he need you. Particularly with him being a step child.
2. As one who went down the wrong road and distanced myself from my parents, I sincerely hope that like me, he reaches a point in his life where he wants nothing more than to repair the damage done and that its not too late to accomplish that.
Ok back to
atlashunter
Senior Member
You continue to contradict yourself. In one breath you claim a god is just and in the next you say merciful. Make up your mind. If he is one he isn't the other. If you've received a reprieve from justice that may be merciful but it isn't just.
bullethead
Of the hard cast variety
Again I agree.
Now how would you punish him if he never chooses to make the effort to have a relationship with you and your wife?
Is punishment necessary?
Would you have him suffer eternally if you could?
atlashunter
Senior Member
Do what any just and loving father would do, set him on fire. It was his choice after all.
ambush80
Senior Member
Do what any just and loving father would do, set him on fire. It was his choice after all.
"Vengeance is mine."
Just more of the "Do as I say, not as I do". It's the answer to why a believer calls the horrific "loving" when God does it. His world, His rules. He can call lighting you on fire good and loving and you just better go along with it. I feel as though I completely understand their position.
bullethead
Of the hard cast variety
Do what any just and loving father would do, set him on fire. It was his choice after all.
Yes. I am wondering if that would be an option for jseph and his wife.
And if not,
Why?
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atlashunter
Senior Member
What would god have to do to be considered evil? If the answer is nothing then it really renders the good and evil distinction for god moot.
PopPop
Gone But Not Forgotten
The answer is not available to us. Just not enough evidence. At that time there was thought to be a possible difference in the mind of the author of that scripture.
There are many good questions generated by scripture and I am poorly equipped to answer them. Yet I have not seen one example of error or confusion or duplicity which shoots the thing down.
Faith does not mean, I have more knowledge or facts than the Atheist, the Atheist does not have more knowledge or facts than the Faithful. The difference is how we process the unknowable. Just as the Big Bang v Intelligent Design question, you can no more show proof than can I.
atlashunter
Senior Member
There is archaeological evidence of Canaanite polytheism and the pantheon of deities which included Elyon. Kind of tough to determine whether there is sufficient evidence to know something when you aren't willing to look at it in the first place.
PopPop
Gone But Not Forgotten
I acknowledged the evidence, it indicates polytheism and you extrapolate something else from that. There are archaeological suggestions that we were bred by ancient space travelers and called them gods, I don't dismiss them, I know that I don't know.
