Converting the dying

[WaltL1]

I sure wish God would have made it easier

1. Its not easy because he didn't want it to be.
2. Its not easy because its all man made stories that cant be proven.

If I was a bettin' man (which I am), I bet you choose #1

 

[Spotlite]

1. Its not easy because he didn't want it to be.
2. Its not easy because its all man made stories that cant be proven.

If I was a bettin' man (which I am), I bet you choose #1

Given the choices, good bet, I would go with # 1 over # 2.

 

[atlashunter]

Ahh - ok I see what you’re saying. In a sense, the non believer is saying that he doesn’t have enough evidence to support that God exist, but can’t ”prove” he doesn’t - while the believer says that he has enough evidence to support that God exist but can’t ”prove” it.

I was mostly curious as to why the burden of proof has to be on the believer (the claimer) when it appeared that both sides were making a claim.

Sort of like “I’m innocent” - ok prove it.

See post 376. The last sentence in particular.

 

[atlashunter]

A non believer doesn't have to claim anything. Something doesn't exist until its proven to exist. You don't have to "claim" that. It just is.
On the other hand, when you / a Christian says that in fact God exists you are saying that you and other Christians have proven that.
And don't forget, its not just a matter of proving it to yourself. You have now told us that God in fact exists.
That's puts the responsibility on you.

It's worse than that for the believer because the Bible does make claims about god that are demonstrably false. The evidence or lack of evidence is not equally weighted between the two claims.

 

[Israel]

We do all recognize we are continually in communications (even here with one another) to a thing that can't be seen? I'm not talking about the fact that we are not visible to one another over the computer.

If you got a wife, got a child, got a friend...go as much eye to eye with them as allowed...you'll find out.

 

[bullethead]

We do all recognize we are continually in communications (even here with one another) to a thing that can't be seen? I'm not talking about the fact that we are not visible to one another over the computer.

If you got a wife, got a child, got a friend...go as much eye to eye with them as allowed...you'll find out.

Is your first sentence a statement or a question?

 

[red neck richie]

It's worse than that for the believer because the Bible does make claims about god that are demonstrably false. The evidence or lack of evidence is not equally weighted between the two claims.

Not! Atlas I am really starting to think you have some superiority issues. It is not worse, In fact I find it to be a blessing. I think the burden is on you.

 

[bullethead]

Not! Atlas I am really starting to think you have some superiority issues. It is not worse, In fact I find it to be a blessing. I think the burden is on you.

With all due respect, you have shown that what you think and what is true are often two completely different things.

 

[red neck richie]

With all due respect, you have shown that what you think and what is true are often two completely different things.

How so? I have shared my experiences with you. You discredit them. I find them to be truth. Please explain. By the way I would like to see a picture of your Christmas tree this year. Did you hand a string of Lights?

 

[bullethead]

How so? I have shared my experiences with you. You discredit them. I find them to be truth. Please explain.

The experiences are yours. Many similar experiences happen to believers of other gods and non believers, so yes they are able to be discredited. Im not saying that you didn't have the experiences, what I am saying is that in no way are they evidence of any specific god or god at all...you just give credit to the god you believe in.


But, as in your reply to atlas above....you take no time or effort to show him why he may be wrong you say "not". Explain not. He has shown many times in multiple threads how certain things contained in the bible are demonstrably false.
You seem to be using your disagreement as your evidence.

 

[bullethead]

How so? I have shared my experiences with you. You discredit them. I find them to be truth. Please explain. By the way I would like to see a picture of your Christmas tree this year. Did you hand a string of Lights?

Didn't get a tree yet.
My wife and son's girlfriend love to do the decorating. My wife delivers for UPS. Xmas isnt what is used to be for her.

And WHY are you concerned about a tree and whether or not I hang (or hand) a string of lights?
Did I miss the xmas tree thread?

 

[red neck richie]

The experiences are yours. Many similar experiences happen to believers of other gods and non believers, so yes they are able to be discredited. Im not saying that you didn't have the experiences, what I am saying is that in no way are they evidence of any specific god or god at all...you just give credit to the god you believe in.


But, as in your reply to atlas above....you take no time or effort to show him why he may be wrong you say "not". Explain not. He has shown many times in multiple threads how certain things contained in the bible are demonstrably false.
You seem to be using your disagreement as your evidence.

I do not feel a burden. I have witnessed healing during prayer. I have witnessed people speaking in tounges. I have witnessed too many things to believe it is coincidental any more. I have felt the Holy Spirit in my very being. I have witnessed loved ones die. I don't claim to know exactly how it works. I only know it is real. And for those of you that believe it is a hallucination I disagree. I don't doubt that science has found chemicals in the body. I doubt that that is the cause, It is the by product of the experience. Kind of like a cut. The body didn't create it but tried to heal it.

 

[WaltL1]

Didn't get a tree yet.
My wife and son's girlfriend love to do the decorating. My wife delivers for UPS. Xmas isnt what is used to be for her.

And WHY are you concerned about a tree and whether or not I hang (or hand) a string of lights?
Did I miss the xmas tree thread?

To borrow a phrase - Good Lord!
She probably couldn't be happier to see Christmas over with !

 

[red neck richie]

Didn't get a tree yet.
My wife and son's girlfriend love to do the decorating. My wife delivers for UPS. Xmas isnt what is used to be for her.

And WHY are you concerned about a tree and whether or not I hang (or hand) a string of lights?
Did I miss the xmas tree thread?

How will you teach your Grandchildren?

 

[bullethead]

I do not feel a burden. I have witnessed healing during prayer. I have witnessed people speaking in tounges. I have witnessed too many things to believe it is coincidental any more. I have felt the Holy Spirit in my very being. I have witnessed loved ones die. I don't claim to know exactly how it works. I only know it is real. And for those of you that believe it is a hallucination I disagree. I don't doubt that science has found chemicals in the body. I doubt that that is the cause, It is the by product of the experience. Kind of like a cut. The body didn't create it but tried to heal it.

Burden in this sense means The Ball is in your court.
I dont remember anyone saying you witnessing someone talking in tongues is a hallucination, but someone on the verge of dying absolutely has a release of DMT and as a result absolutely has hallucinations.
I trust people who study these things for a living more than your doubt and my wishful thinking. I go with the evidence.

 

[bullethead]

To borrow a phrase - Good Lord!
She probably couldn't be happier to see Christmas over with !

Yeah

 

[bullethead]

How will you teach your Grandchildren?

How will I teach my grandchildren what?

To decorate a tree?
My 3 sons seemed to have learned it quite well.

If the day comes that I am blessed with grandchildren I am quite confident that I will not have lost the capacity to string up some lights and hang ornaments.

 

[Spotlite]

It is not worse, In fact I find it to be a blessing.

I would agree.

I have witnessed too many things to believe it is coincidental any more

I’m with ya on this, but unfortunately bullet is correct. And until a person actually has personal experience with what we are saying, there’s nothing that you and I can provide as evidence. Although there are some that claim an experience and still chose not to believe, there are those that went from non believers to believers.

The experiences are yours.

 

[bullethead]

I would agree.

I’m with ya on this, but unfortunately bullet is correct. And until a person actually has personal experience with what we are saying, there’s nothing that you and I can provide as evidence. Although there are some that claim an experience and still chose not to believe, there are those that went from non believers to believers.

I have shared my experiences in these threads a few times.
Strange
Creepy
Phenominal
Spooky
Amazing
Odd
Unexplainable
Explainable

But in no instance did I automatically think that a god took one second to have a hand in any of them.
I've thought of a dead relative helping more than a god...and I know how ridiculous that sounds.

 

[bullethead]

How will I teach my grandchildren what?

To decorate a tree?
My 3 sons seemed to have learned it quite well.

If the day comes that I am blessed with grandchildren I am quite confident that I will not have lost the capacity to string up some lights and hang ornaments.

Richie???