Is my atheist dad in heaven?

[welderguy]

Wow.

He said that the voices in your head have been yours all along. Just like you said. Just like everybody else.

That has been well established. No argument there. I only wanted to know how Walt knew what was in my head. He already answered it honestly when he said "I don't know". And he's right, he doesn't know. And you don't either. You have zero proof of voices or lack thereof. You only know what I've said today which is "I've not had voices in my head except for my own".
Now, based on what I've told you, you know I don't have voices in my head. But, you still don't know if everybody else does or not, unless they also tell you. See how that works? Wow

 

[bullethead]

I wonder that same thing about the Council of Nicea. Why did God use a council of more than one man? It would be better if the Holy Spirit had spoken through one person at Nicea instead of many.

Likewise let God speak through one man and choose a Pope.

One and there is doubt.
When 50 or 100 all come to the same conclusion and write down the exact same thing every time then that is a sign there might be something bigger involved.

 

[ambush80]

That has been well established. No argument there. I only wanted to know how Walt knew what was in my head. He already answered it honestly when he said "I don't know". And he's right, he doesn't know. And you don't either. You have zero proof of voices or lack thereof. You only know what I've said today which is "I've not had voices in my head except for my own".
Now, based on what I've told you, you know I don't have voices in my head. But, you still don't know if everybody else does or not, unless they also tell you. See how that works? Wow

I don't understand what you're saying. It seems to me that we must be talking about something different from each other or talking past each other or something. When I get time I'm going to re-read this until I get a grasp of what you're talking about. If anyone else has been following and understands what Welder is trying to say please chime in.

 

[WaltL1]

I don't understand what you're saying. It seems to me that we must be talking about something different from each other or talking past each other or something. When I get time I'm going to re-read this until I get a grasp of what you're talking about. If anyone else has been following and understands what Welder is trying to say please chime in.

My grasp -
Welder told us yesterday there were no voices in his head except his own.
I said that's what we/I have been saying along. Which would mean we/I knew that before he told us.
So his question is how could we/I possibly know that before he told us?
To which I responded that we/I don't actually "know it" its just what a preponderance of the evidence is.
His point here -

Now, based on what I've told you, you know I don't have voices in my head. But, you still don't know if everybody else does or not, unless they also tell you.

is that we didn't actually "know" until he told us and we cant "know" if anybody else does or not until they tell us like he did.

 

[ambush80]

My grasp -
Welder told us yesterday there were no voices in his head except his own.
I said that's what we/I have been saying along. Which would mean we/I knew that before he told us.
So his question is how could we/I possibly know that before he told us?
To which I responded that we/I don't actually "know it" its just what a preponderance of the evidence is.
His point here -
is that we didn't actually "know" until he told us and we cant "know" if anybody else does or not until they tell us like he did.

Thanks Walt. Not trying to speak for you but, I submit that when you and I commented we were operating from the position that it was common knowledge that everybody hears a voice in their head when they think and that its always their own. Everybody does it all the time. He can try to refute that if he likes.

No one hears voices in their head that that aren't their own, but everyone hears voices in their head as they think. Perhaps he's talking about ideas, which could come from someone else (like when you read my words).

Welder,

In good faith I accept your explanation. Let's move on.

Do you ever hear God speak to you? Does God ever implant thoughts in your head?

 

[atlashunter]

If I had voices in my head that I thought weren’t mine my first thought would be that I need psychiatric help. People who think they are in communication with a being that created the universe are probably overestimating their relevance in the universe.

 

[NCHillbilly]

I wonder what language the voices in your head would be if you were born deaf?

 

[welderguy]

Thanks Walt. Not trying to speak for you but, I submit that when you and I commented we were operating from the position that it was common knowledge that everybody hears a voice in their head when they think and that its always their own. Everybody does it all the time. He can try to refute that if he likes.

No one hears voices in their head that that aren't their own, but everyone hears voices in their head as they think. Perhaps he's talking about ideas, which could come from someone else (like when you read my words).

Welder,

In good faith I accept your explanation. Let's move on.

Do you ever hear God speak to you? Does God ever implant thoughts in your head?

It all started going south when you labeled me as dangerous. Maybe I misinterpreted, but it seemed as if you wanted to categorize me as some kind of psychopathic danger to society. That was, in my opinion, unfounded, especially since you have no idea what is in my head unless I tell you. I see this type of stereotyping going on more and more lately, and Christians are being lumped into the same group as the radical Islamic murderers. It's wrong, and it ruffles my feathers. That's all.

 

[hummerpoo]

It all started going south when you labeled me as dangerous. Maybe I misinterpreted, but it seemed as if you wanted to categorize me as some kind of psychopathic danger to society. That was, in my opinion, unfounded, especially since you have no idea what is in my head unless I tell you. I see this type of stereotyping going on more and more lately, and Christians are being lumped into the same group as the radical Islamic murderers. It's wrong, and it ruffles my feathers. That's all.

Welder, I think you are WRONG; mindreading, big box profiling, hyperbolical accusations, and stereotyping have not increased since I've been here.

 

[SemperFiDawg]

How about some of you other Christian Brothers jump into this lion's den and save me.

You're not the one that needs to be saved by the sound of it, and these are not lions. I've used to wondered what kind of person would exhibit the rebellion spoken of here

And the people were scorched by intense heat, and they cursed the name of God, who had authority over these plagues; yet they did not repent and give Him glory.

Now I know. Don't let them bring you down. They won't listen. They're full of nothing but deception and denigration. If they shake their fist at God, why would you expect different treatment. Count it as an honor that they denigrate you. It means you're on the side of truth and life.

 

[welderguy]

Welder, I think you are WRONG; mindreading, big box profiling, hyperbolical accusations, and stereotyping have not increased since I've been here.

I meant increasing out in the world in general(not so much per se in here)
But you certainly have a right to your opinion, as well as does Ambush or anyone else.

 

[hummerpoo]

I meant increasing out in the world in general(not so much per se in here)
But you certainly have a right to your opinion, as well as does Ambush or anyone else.

O.K., gotcha.

I have debated with myself about the general increase. Is it a substantial increase, or an increase in visibility? It would be good have a certain answer to the question, but I doubt that it will be revealed.

From a positive perspective, it provides recognition and a large income for some and recreation for many.
>>>edit<<< it probably serves to support the self-esteem of several.

 

[welderguy]

O.K., gotcha.

I have debated with myself about the general increase. Is it a substantial increase, or an increase in visibility? It would be good have a certain answer to the question, but I doubt that it will be revealed.

From a positive perspective, it provides recognition and a large income for some and recreation for many.
>>>edit<<< it probably serves to support the self-esteem of several.

I can agree with this.

 

[Artfuldodger]

I meant increasing out in the world in general(not so much per se in here)
But you certainly have a right to your opinion, as well as does Ambush or anyone else.

From an Election standpoint, would the number of folks God calls be less today than in the 1600's? I'm wondering that even if what is known by the world as Christianity or Atheism has any bearing on God's calling?

God is no respecter of man and his election isn't based on Atheism's increase or it's tactics.

 

[NCHillbilly]

It all started going south when you labeled me as dangerous. Maybe I misinterpreted, but it seemed as if you wanted to categorize me as some kind of psychopathic danger to society. That was, in my opinion, unfounded, especially since you have no idea what is in my head unless I tell you. I see this type of stereotyping going on more and more lately, and Christians are being lumped into the same group as the radical Islamic murderers. It's wrong, and it ruffles my feathers. That's all.

I think you confuse someone disagreeing with you with someone attacking and completely devaluing you. They are different things.

 

[WaltL1]

O.K., gotcha.

I have debated with myself about the general increase. Is it a substantial increase, or an increase in visibility? It would be good have a certain answer to the question, but I doubt that it will be revealed.

From a positive perspective, it provides recognition and a large income for some and recreation for many.
>>>edit<<< it probably serves to support the self-esteem of several.

So just my opinions. Got no facts or figures to back it up -

and Christians are being lumped into the same group as the radical Islamic murderers.

My opinion is anybody that compares modern day Christians to radical Islamic murderers is basically just an idiot.

I have debated with myself about the general increase. Is it a substantial increase, or an increase in visibility?

My opinion is that yes Christianity/organized religion is scrutinized much more so today than it used to be. Lots of different reasons for that.
And I'll be honest fellas, its your fellow Christians who are causing much of the scrutiny. Think about what folks see on the news -
Swaggart crying his eyes out, Catholic priest scandals, Lear jets and on and on...
As far as people literally "persecuting" Christians of today (here in the US)....... a lot of ya'll are just being drama queens.

 

[atlashunter]

It all started going south when you labeled me as dangerous. Maybe I misinterpreted, but it seemed as if you wanted to categorize me as some kind of psychopathic danger to society. That was, in my opinion, unfounded, especially since you have no idea what is in my head unless I tell you. I see this type of stereotyping going on more and more lately, and Christians are being lumped into the same group as the radical Islamic murderers. It's wrong, and it ruffles my feathers. That's all.

Both Christians and muslims claim to be operating with the authority of the same deity. Both groups have at different times committed atrocities because of that belief. That’s not a stereotype that’s a historical fact. Surely you can see the potential danger in such beliefs.

 

[WaltL1]

I think you confuse someone disagreeing with you with someone attacking and completely devaluing you. They are different things.

That is a super important point. We see it very frequently right here.
Read SFD's post up there for a perfect example.

 

[hummerpoo]

I think you confuse someone disagreeing with you [in an uncaring, uncivil, denigrating, self-righteous manor] with someone attacking and completely devaluing you. They are different things.

Fixed it; as a general statement concerning this sub-forum, not Ambush specifically.

 

[hummerpoo]

So just my opinions. Got no facts or figures to back it up -

My opinion is anybody that compares modern day Christians to radical Islamic murderers is basically just an idiot.

My opinion is that yes Christianity/organized religion is scrutinized much more so today than it used to be. Lots of different reasons for that.
And I'll be honest fellas, its your fellow Christians who are causing much of the scrutiny. Think about what folks see on the news -
Swaggart crying his eyes out, Catholic priest scandals, Lear jets and on and on...

And, at least in most cases here, when someone tries to point out that the thing is being evaluated by its abuse, they are denigrated for that.

As far as people literally "persecuting" Christians of today (here in the US)....... a lot of ya'll are just being drama queens.

Yes some are.

....