Dr. Assisted Suicide

[georgia_home]

this is kinda interesting.

states like california are all concerned with "gun violence" of which the resulting death toll is 2/3 suicide.

in the same breath, they recently voted to allow physician assisted suicide (PAS).

i think that what they really don't like is the DIY'ers and the inability to tax them.

seems all they'd need to do is put a death tax in place for the DIY crowd, and things will be all right.

cali does have a waiting period for guns, 10 days i think?.?. not sure about PAS.

So, I asked in the political forum if there should be a waiting period for a pill to kill yourself but not one to get a gun to kill yourself. Is there a difference?

 

[WaltL1]

So, I asked in the political forum if there should be a waiting period for a pill to kill yourself but not one to get a gun to kill yourself. Is there a difference?

There are differences that would come into play for example if you "order" the pill your intended usage of it would be accepted.
If you go the gun counter and say "I need a gun so I can kill myself" you will probably be shown a squirt gun.
And I would imagine we would have to apply the same philosophy to everything anybody ever committed suicide with.
So I reject the question

 

[ryanh487]

If you've ever attempted suicide and were saved by medical personnel, you have been 1013'd/involuntarily committed in the process. You are not allowed to own a gun.

 

[j_seph]

There are differences that would come into play for example if you "order" the pill your intended usage of it would be accepted.
If you go the gun counter and say "I need a gun so I can kill myself" you will probably be shown a squirt gun.
And I would imagine we would have to apply the same philosophy to everything anybody ever committed suicide with.
So I reject the question

1 shot disposable guns

 

[ambush80]

this is kinda interesting.

states like california are all concerned with "gun violence" of which the resulting death toll is 2/3 suicide.

in the same breath, they recently voted to allow physician assisted suicide (PAS).

i think that what they really don't like is the DIY'ers and the inability to tax them.

seems all they'd need to do is put a death tax in place for the DIY crowd, and things will be all right.

cali does have a waiting period for guns, 10 days i think?.?. not sure about PAS.

Death tax. Interesting idea.

Your post made me wonder how much people are opposed to a pill because they think it makes it too easy.

 

[ambush80]

There are differences that would come into play for example if you "order" the pill your intended usage of it would be accepted.
If you go the gun counter and say "I need a gun so I can kill myself" you will probably be shown a squirt gun.
And I would imagine we would have to apply the same philosophy to everything anybody ever committed suicide with.
So I reject the question

Why would you have to order the pill? Shouldn't you be able to just go get one like a gun?

Think of it this way. In the PF I argued against the notion of people being allowed to have deadly substances like anthrax or C4 without some sort of permit. If we should be able to have those things without restriction then why not death pills?

 

[ryanh487]

Your post made me wonder how much people are opposed to a pill because they think it makes it too easy.

Nobody depressed enough to commit suicide is of sound mind to make any important decisions.

 

[ambush80]

Nobody depressed enough to commit suicide is of sound mind to make any important decisions.

OK. So what does that have to do with their right to take their own life? Are we still talking about rights or something else?

 

[WaltL1]

Nobody depressed enough to commit suicide is of sound mind to make any important decisions.

Why does suicide HAVE to be associated with depression?
Why cant one make a rational, competent decision that its time to go?

 

[georgia_home]

UPDATE

I intended some sarcasm with my post comparing guns and PAS

That said, a link off drudge said the PAS law in cali may be tossed out for procedural reasons.

The AG has time to appeal.

 

[red neck richie]

Why does suicide HAVE to be associated with depression?
Why cant one make a rational, competent decision that its time to go?

Why do you need assistance?

 

[WaltL1]

Why do you need assistance?

You mean Doctor's assistance?
Currently its the most humane/painless/cleanest/least traumatizing for people who would prefer you didn't do it, process we have.
People that are making a rational, conscience decision would find that much more appealing than splattering their brains on the wall for someone else to find.
I would think.

 

[WaltL1]

Why would you have to order the pill? Shouldn't you be able to just go get one like a gun?

Think of it this way. In the PF I argued against the notion of people being allowed to have deadly substances like anthrax or C4 without some sort of permit. If we should be able to have those things without restriction then why not death pills?

I'm still having trouble with your premise. I get the path you are trying to go down but I find its premise faulty by giving the gun a specified purpose ie suicide and trying to make the comparison to something that has only one purpose ie suicide pill.

people being allowed to have deadly substances like anthrax or C4 without some sort of permit.

The Walmart was fresh out when I was there

If we should be able to have those things without restriction then why not death pills?

I don't think we should have anthrax or C4 or death pills without restriction.

 

[atlashunter]

Switzerland has it right.

 

[Israel]

I'm still having trouble with your premise. I get the path you are trying to go down but I find its premise faulty by giving the gun a specified purpose ie suicide and trying to make the comparison to something that has only one purpose ie suicide pill.

The Walmart was fresh out when I was there

I don't think we should have anthrax or C4 or death pills without restriction.

Disclaimer: I am not arguing for suicide pills.

A man buys a 12 gauge like this.
Yes, it could be used for rabbit hunting.
It could be used on sporting clays.
But...(and regardless of all the other assumptions I'd prefer to address already in the mix of this argument/discussion...specifically as to "what is a right?") generally, we may (?) agree what this is for.
Do we agree its use is best suited for and to a man seeking to deliver himself from a situation he may think could occur(and from which he probably imagines he has a legitimate right).
Use though, despite seeming intent (and what could be surmised of it by observers) is really the only thing that ultimately bears the truer testimony. Intents, will, desires...all must submit to use. But even then...is use the final word? (I find that a big question, knowing absolutely, I can "make no other" even consider it).

One side says "suicide pill" is absolutely (solely because we ordain it) only for...one thing.
But even in the assumptions we may have about that shotgun and intentions regarding it as perhaps varied. we may still find even more variation.

The man who once may have even envisioned himself (if the situation arose) grabbing the gun and "blowing away" illegitimate and unwanted intruders...may find them scurrying out of harms way (and in fright for their lives) from his house...when they saw him merely rack it.
(A cop once said "get a pump action"...for even if they are not yet through the door, and they hear that on the other side...they know what that implies.)

So...could a man, does a man...have the right to then (even in the case of s suicide pill) say..."I don't think your assumptions about me purchasing it are quite correct"

"I know you assume it is for one thing only..."

"But, I want it...just in case..." (Watch a good spy movie! for starters)

The question is (for me)..."Is a man "free" by right...to have what does not enter into needing justification...by the assumptions...of others?"

BTW, I believe all men already have a built in self destruct button...it's called "their own lives", and they took it before they knew will to...in their very first breath. To what use they will put it to is yet for the adjudicating. Someone has got a foot already "in my door" and convincing me daily of its best use. Hate it...be separated from it...be free of its suicidal impetus and impulse to end itself...by taking matters "into its own hands".

But, I am just a beginner at this. I know...I am not good at it.

But who knows if the best use of a shotgun...may simply be as a door stop? To keep one open...of course. Or a leveler for a troublesome table, or a makeshift handle...for a water pump.

Vendors assume the obligation of assumptions about whatever product they seek to sell. What a man may give freely...has no such restriction of obligation. He is absolutely free to not care at all...what he gives...may be used for.

Beating swords into plowshares seems a work, but not when one has seen a harvest...waiting. Just "out of sight" seemingly.

Look...I met a man so full of powder and shot that had he chosen to "go off" the universe itself could not survive it. But...he was free...not to. He wasn't selling...a thing. But repurchasing...what is already...His own. Almost too crazy, especially when seeing what He paid.
But in that "almost" hangs all.
And I...am not...almost...your brother.
Who...doesn't need a right...to speak?
Just...does?


Thinkest thou that I cannot now pray to my Father, and he shall presently give me more than twelve legions of angels?

Sometimes the learning of what a man could say and do...but does not...is no less important in "sizing him up" than what is at very first...only seen and heard...of him.

 

[SemperFiDawg]

What do you all think about it?

It’s a broad spectrum that stretches from hospice care to arguably, abortion. May want to be a bit more specific with your parameters.

 

[SemperFiDawg]

So "No" to this?

http://www.catholicherald.co.uk/new...-euthanise-29-year-old-woman-with-depression/

In my opinion, in this instance, it's murder and premeditated.

As bogus as 90% of psychiatric diagnoses are, that's ONE slippery slope.

On the flip side I worked Critical Care for years and it was, and still is very common to place someone who is suffering, no hope of recovery, and literally dying a slow death on a morphine drip to both ease and speed the course along.

There is a TIME to die. We have just come so far with our technology that in many instances we can revive and sustain shells of persons who should by all rights HAVE died. In many instances the surviving family is not prepared for the often suddenness of whatever catastrophic event befalls the loved one, and it often takes a while for them to come to the conclusion that granny, for all practical purposes, died at home and it's just the drugs and ventilator that's substaining her. Some never do, and sadly some will keep them alive to keep the check coming in one more month. I've seen hundreds of people die; some with dignity, but most not.
Only one really stands out in my mind: an elderly man with failing lungs. He simply asked me to pull the curtain and let him spend his last minutes with his family at his bedside. I did. In my mind, he died with dignity.

Sorry for the rambling.

 

[SemperFiDawg]

Disclaimer: I am not arguing for suicide pills.

A man buys a 12 gauge like this.
Yes, it could be used for rabbit hunting.
It could be used on sporting clays.
But...(and regardless of all the other assumptions I'd prefer to address already in the mix of this argument/discussion...specifically as to "what is a right?") generally, we may (?) agree what this is for.
Do we agree its use is best suited for and to a man seeking to deliver himself from a situation he may think could occur(and from which he probably imagines he has a legitimate right).
Use though, despite seeming intent (and what could be surmised of it by observers) is really the only thing that ultimately bears the truer testimony. Intents, will, desires...all must submit to use. But even then...is use the final word? (I find that a big question, knowing absolutely, I can "make no other" even consider it).

One side says "suicide pill" is absolutely (solely because we ordain it) only for...one thing.
But even in the assumptions we may have about that shotgun and intentions regarding it as perhaps varied. we may still find even more variation.

The man who once may have even envisioned himself (if the situation arose) grabbing the gun and "blowing away" illegitimate and unwanted intruders...may find them scurrying out of harms way (and in fright for their lives) from his house...when they saw him merely rack it.
(A cop once said "get a pump action"...for even if they are not yet through the door, and they hear that on the other side...they know what that implies.)

So...could a man, does a man...have the right to then (even in the case of s suicide pill) say..."I don't think your assumptions about me purchasing it are quite correct"

"I know you assume it is for one thing only..."

"But, I want it...just in case..." (Watch a good spy movie! for starters)

The question is (for me)..."Is a man "free" by right...to have what does not enter into needing justification...by the assumptions...of others?"

BTW, I believe all men already have a built in self destruct button...it's called "their own lives", and they took it before they knew will to...in their very first breath. To what use they will put it to is yet for the adjudicating. Someone has got a foot already "in my door" and convincing me daily of its best use. Hate it...be separated from it...be free of its suicidal impetus and impulse to end itself...by taking matters "into its own hands".

But, I am just a beginner at this. I know...I am not good at it.

But who knows if the best use of a shotgun...may simply be as a door stop? To keep one open...of course. Or a leveler for a troublesome table, or a makeshift handle...for a water pump.

Vendors assume the obligation of assumptions about whatever product they seek to sell. What a man may give freely...has no such restriction of obligation. He is absolutely free to not care at all...what he gives...may be used for.

Beating swords into plowshares seems a work, but not when one has seen a harvest...waiting. Just "out of sight" seemingly.

Look...I met a man so full of powder and shot that had he chosen to "go off" the universe itself could not survive it. But...he was free...not to. He wasn't selling...a thing. But repurchasing...what is already...His own. Almost too crazy, especially when seeing what He paid.
But in that "almost" hangs all.
And I...am not...almost...your brother.
Who...doesn't need a right...to speak?
Just...does?


Thinkest thou that I cannot now pray to my Father, and he shall presently give me more than twelve legions of angels?

Sometimes the learning of what a man could say and do...but does not...is no less important in "sizing him up" than what is at very first...only seen and heard...of him.

Huh? Never mind.

 

[SemperFiDawg]

Why cant one make a rational, competent decision that its time to go?

I'm split on this. One part of me says "They can." and the other part says that a "rational, competent" person by definition, wouldn't make that decision, but maybe they would.

 

[SemperFiDawg]

But regardless, Dr's should have no part in ending the life of a physically health individual.

This I totally agree with for a myriad of reasons.