Leading atheist defends aborting babies with Down's syndrome

[ambush80]

Well I guess to know his complete I would have to be God. I know his will for me and that is enough.

Why are you certain you know His will for you but not certain about His will for the unborn?

 

[ambush80]

Well I guess to know his complete I would have to be God. I know his will for me and that is enough.

Why are you certain you know His will for you but not certain about His will for the unborn?

I'll cut to the chase. If you follow this to its logical conclusion you will be compelled by your personal interpretation of doctrine to believe that the process of invitro fertilization, as it's presently conducted whereby they end up destroying or experimenting on unimplanted zygotes, is a sin.

 

[bullethead]

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Well to be fair you haven’t found any evidence of God yet either, despite living in a universe created by him, using intelligence and communication only attributable to him, living a “life” upheld solely by his will, so one has to wonder just how acute your perception is.

To be delusional...is what you wrote above.

 

[bullethead]

Which great Athesist was is it that said these acts are immoral ? Many cultures embrace these acts !

Nobody needs to shout things out as directions.
We are all raised a certain way, in a certain society in a specific area of the world...yet there are no universal rules that everyone always adheres to.
I don't need to be told to do or not to do certain things.

 

[bullethead]

You’re right. IT always ends in denigration when you won’t accept what is patently obvious to believers and atheist alike. Guess I should be grateful for you saving me the time and cutting right to the denigration.

It ends when you get your tail whooped and go run and hide only to pop back in occasionally to make these redundant hit and runs assertions and claims and flat out lies.

 

[bullethead]

It’s not mine. Take it up with Dawkins and Singer if you find it immoral. They will tell you flat out evolution and atheism have no accommodation for morals beyond what is pragmatic. You just don’t like their answers.

They are right.

 

[SemperFiDawg]

I'll cut to the chase. If you follow this to its logical conclusion you will be compelled by your personal interpretation of doctrine to believe that the process of invitro fertilization, as it's presently conducted whereby they end up destroying or experimenting on unimplanted zygotes, is a sin.

I'm pretty sure I already said I felt it was.

 

[bullethead]

It’s not mine. Take it up with Dawkins and Singer if you find it immoral. They will tell you flat out evolution and atheism have no accommodation for morals beyond what is pragmatic. You just don’t like their answers.

I don't find it immoral, I find it socially unacceptable at this time in this place.
History show "morals" change with the times. You ignore the facts.

 

[ambush80]

I'm pretty sure I already said I felt it was.

Why did you say this before?

"I’m not God, and I won’t pretend to know his will as far as this goes."

So do you "feel" it is or do you know?

 

[Brother David]

Nobody needs to shout things out as directions.
We are all raised a certain way, in a certain society in a specific area of the world...yet there are no universal rules that everyone always adheres to.
I don't need to be told to do or not to do certain things.

I would like to congratulate you !

You are the first person that I have meet that was born with moral values . I thought all people have to be taught to share and care , but I guess science missed you !

 

[SemperFiDawg]

Walt, I don't doubt this one iota, but it has no bearing at all on the original point unless you can show that all self-identifying Christians are actually practicing Christians. I would suggest that the very fact that they performing something that goes AGAINST the tenets of being a practicing Christian would suggest not. On the other hand, it provides a stark contrast; One group getting abortions AGAINST the tenets of their purported beliefs, another belief that pragmatically endorses abortions.

 

[bullethead]

I would like to congratulate you !

You are the first person that I have meet that was born with moral values . I thought all people have to be taught to share and care , but I guess science missed you !

You must have misunderstood what you have read.
I clearly stated that we are all raised a certain way, in a certain society, in a specific part of the world.

The reason you thought that I was the first person to be born with morals is because even you know people are not born with morals. If so, and those morals came from your god, Everybody worldwide would be on the same page. Yours change according to the situation and the importance of the situation...just like everyone else.

Had you been born in China in a certain time period, you would have been drowning the baby girls and keeping the boys.

 

[bullethead]

Walt, I don't doubt this one iota, but it has no bearing at all on the original point unless you can show that all self-identifying Christians are actually practicing Christians. I would suggest that the very fact that they performing something that goes AGAINST the tenets of being a practicing Christian would suggest not. On the other hand, it provides a stark contrast; One group getting abortions AGAINST the tenets of their purported beliefs, another belief that pragmatically endorses abortions.

You coming in here and constantly making inciting posts are the example of you not being a practicing christian, yet acting like you are. WWJD and WW SFDD are two COMPLETELY different things. You just think doing whatever you want and praying for forgiveness later gets you off the hook.

 

[Brother David]

You must have misunderstood what you have read.
I clearly stated that we are all raised a certain way, in a certain society, in a specific part of the world.

The reason you thought that I was the first person to be born with morals is because even you know people are not born with morals. If so, and those morals came from your god, Everybody worldwide would be on the same page. Yours change according to the situation and the importance of the situation...just like everyone else.

Had you been born in China in a certain time period, you would have been drowning the baby girls and keeping the boys.

May you find peace in your search for all the answers !

 

[bullethead]

May you find peace in your search for all the answers !

Oh I do. Thank you

 

[Israel]

Sometimes I feel like the wrong sperm "won" the intrauterine freestyle, sometimes I realize...so does everyone most everyone else...want to "have" enough difference to their satisfaction...without losing consciousness or continuity of identity.

I think it goes both ways...into the past...into the future. I have an inkling were I to have seen myself 30 years ago...looking through the window of my now double wide paradise from the outside...I might have taken, or made effort, having seen the old man sitting at this keyboard in a house full of dogs and cats, surrounded by people completely unknown to the watcher, to adjust something. But, he really could never know me at all...

But, I am having such a wonderful time of things...mostly, I almost feel like running to the door and shouting out at an unseen phantasm "dude...you don't understand at all!"


"Don't taze me bro!" But, if you wanna floss more, I guess that's OK.

Then I realize...I am talking to myself, and only that thing that wrote the first part of sentence starting this post. I have to be reminded what thing is subtle...but resident in the grossest of presumptions...regret. And...it is a thing "invited" when I would even begin to consider this in regard to anyone else too...that "they" should be different. Mostly I am finding out...they got enough of their own dread burden for self adjustment to deal with...and how downright cruel it would be to do a "pile on".

Some of you may see the complete vanity of saying "30" years ago...for what does it matter if it's only one second ago...or a fraction thereof. I don't know at all who or what I may be. I sure didn't know this "fine, upright, self controlled christian man" would turn into that thing beheld when rising in the dark to relieve himself he stepped in warm dog poop. No, that surely wasn't me. (I would add an innumerable amount of ha ha's but you guys have mostly convinced me I needn't)

I believe "it is finished" was as supremely a triumphant a cry as ever has been uttered on this plane. Reverberating. "Job" done.

God forbid I make a world (yet which seems my almost singular occupation) "just like me." (good thing...even that is forgiven)

But...I have changed significantly since starting this "answer", not sure if I am even me...right now.

Thanks guys...for showing up in this venue. You all look so different.

OK...who's playing with the lighting?

 

[ambush80]

You must have misunderstood what you have read.
I clearly stated that we are all raised a certain way, in a certain society, in a specific part of the world.

The reason you thought that I was the first person to be born with morals is because even you know people are not born with morals. If so, and those morals came from your god, Everybody worldwide would be on the same page. Yours change according to the situation and the importance of the situation...just like everyone else.

Had you been born in China in a certain time period, you would have been drowning the baby girls and keeping the boys.

I don't think that's right. I think that the natural reaction that mothers have towards their offspring is moral behavior. The way that the alpha chimp protects and fights for his troop is a moral act. The way that the alpha chimp has access to breeding females is part of their morality.

 

[bullethead]

Sometimes I feel like the wrong sperm "won" the intrauterine freestyle, sometimes I realize...so does everyone most everyone else...want to "have" enough difference to their satisfaction...without losing consciousness or continuity of identity.

I think it goes both ways...into the past...into the future. I have an inkling were I to have seen myself 30 years ago...looking through the window of my now double wide paradise from the outside...I might have taken, or made effort, having seen the old man sitting at this keyboard in a house full of dogs and cats, surrounded by people completely unknown to the watcher, to adjust something. But, he really could never know me at all...

But, I am having such a wonderful time of things...mostly, I almost feel like running to the door and shouting out at an unseen phantasm "dude...you don't understand at all!"


"Don't taze me bro!" But, if you wanna floss more, I guess that's OK.

Then I realize...I am talking to myself, and only that thing that wrote the first part of sentence starting this post. I have to be reminded what thing is subtle...but resident in the grossest of presumptions...regret. And...it is a thing "invited" when I would even begin to consider this in regard to anyone else too...that "they" should be different. Mostly I am finding out...they got enough of their own dread burden for self adjustment to deal with...and how downright cruel it would be to do a "pile on".

Some of you may see the complete vanity of saying "30" years ago...for what does it matter if it's only one second ago...or a fraction thereof. I don't know at all who or what I may be. I sure didn't know this "fine, upright, self controlled christian man" would turn into that thing beheld when rising in the dark to relieve himself he stepped in warm dog poop. No, that surely wasn't me. (I would add an innumerable amount of ha ha's but you guys have mostly convinced me I needn't)

I believe "it is finished" was as supremely a triumphant a cry as ever has been uttered on this plane. Reverberating. "Job" done.

God forbid I make a world (yet which seems my almost singular occupation) "just like me." (good thing...even that is forgiven)

But...I have changed significantly since starting this "answer", not sure if I am even me...right now.

Thanks guys...for showing up in this venue. You all look so different.

OK...who's playing with the lighting?

You were the fastest swimmer Izzy. Be proud.

 

[bullethead]

I don't think that's right. I think that the natural reaction that mothers have towards their offspring is moral behavior. The way that the alpha chimp protects and fights for his troop is a moral act. The way that the alpha chimp has access to breeding females is part of their morality.

I'm not sure I agree that/they are morals.
More instinctual than moral. If the alpha chimp used morals, he would try to talk to the other chimps without hurting their feelings instead of pounding on them with both fists.

 

[Israel]

You were the fastest swimmer Izzy. Be proud.

LOLOL!

As much as I may like to, it's a wash. "Half" of me just sat like a blob ova there.