Did Jesus or Peter eat unclean food?

[BANDERSNATCH]

Do you believe that Jesus ate food that was biblically 'unclean', and taught others that they, too, could eat it? (Porkchops, Shrimp, BLTs, Frog legs, etc)

 

[Artfuldodger]

Wasn't Jesus born under the Law? Wouldn't he have to wait until he died to change things?

I guess it all boils down to if he died to do away with the Law or the dogma.

 

[BANDERSNATCH]

lol Not eating porkchops = God's commands. Not being able to eat food with dirty hands and in dirty dishes = Pharisee dogma

 

[BANDERSNATCH]

Ok...since no one wants to discuss this I'll go ahead and give you my 2 cents worth....

Most Christians love to point at Peter's Vision in Acts 10 as proof that God said we could eat unclean food. I say that Peter's Vision is THE BEST PROOF that God does not want us to eat unclean food! Here's why...

1) If Jesus had actually EVER taught people that they could now eat anything, then they would have used it against Him at His trial but, alas, THEY COULD FIND NO FAULT WITH HIM (when it came to the Law)
2) If Jesus had actually EVER taught people that they could now eat anything, including porkchops and BLT sandwiches, then Jesus' righthand man, Peter, would have heard Him teaching it and saw Him eating it but, YEARS after Jesus had ascended, Peter could still not even imagine eating something unclean!!! (as evidenced by his reply to the request to Kill and Eat) Eating unclean food was the furthest thing from his mind.
3) Peter explains the vision TWICE, and he never once mentions food, because he understood the vision to be only about people, who God had NEVER EVER declared unclean. No man, made in the image of God, anywhere in the world, no race or nation, had ever been declared unclean by God. It was only the Pharisees that had taught the Jews that anyone other than Jews (especially anyone from the dispersed Northern tribes who God had divorced) made you unclean to be around them. That was Pharisee dogma, not God's commandment. Peter understood that some animals had been declared as unclean food, but not any man!

 

[Artfuldodger]

ekatharisen; to cleanse

Acts 10:15
The voice spoke to him a second time, "Do not call anything impure that God has made clean."

I can see your interpretation as being nations in Peter's vision.

I would assume most Christians see it as food. Which makes me ask, was there ever a time when there was "unclean" food on the earth?
If it was so, how did God suddenly clean all of the unclean food?

I would assume the Cross cleaned all of the unclean in Peter's vision. If food, did the Cross clean unclean food?

 

[BANDERSNATCH]

Unclean animals have a God-given purpose the earth; to clean it of garbage...like pigs and catfish do. there has always been unclean animals on the earth from the beginning, and God's people knew it. Noah was told to bring 7 pairs of clean animals on the Ark, as compared to a pair of unclean, so Noah knew the difference between unclean and clean animals then.

God does not change. There has never been a commandment of God that He decided was no longer needed. The Law was perfect and was eternal (until heaven and earth passed away, per Jesus) Not one jot or tittle would pass from it, and men were not supposed to add to it or take away from it.

 

[Artfuldodger]

Unclean animals have a God-given purpose the earth; to clean it of garbage...like pigs and catfish do. there has always been unclean animals on the earth from the beginning, and God's people knew it. Noah was told to bring 7 pairs of clean animals on the Ark, as compared to a pair of unclean, so Noah knew the difference between unclean and clean animals then.

God does not change. There has never been a commandment of God that He decided was no longer needed. The Law was perfect and was eternal (until heaven and earth passed away, per Jesus) Not one jot or tittle would pass from it, and men were not supposed to add to it or take away from it.

Not even Love? Love didn't change anything?

 

[BANDERSNATCH]

Not even Love? Love didn't change anything?

????? Are you asking if love changed God's commandments, brother? God commendeth His love towards us in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. That changed a lot....but His commands were forever. Since Christ's death, those who accept His sacrifice no longer have to fear the punishment of failing.... but purposeful willful sin is still not ignored. Hebrews 10:26 I Cor 5 etc etc

 

[Artfuldodger]

Unclean animals have a God-given purpose the earth; to clean it of garbage...like pigs and catfish do. there has always been unclean animals on the earth from the beginning, and God's people knew it. Noah was told to bring 7 pairs of clean animals on the Ark, as compared to a pair of unclean, so Noah knew the difference between unclean and clean animals then.

God does not change. There has never been a commandment of God that He decided was no longer needed. The Law was perfect and was eternal (until heaven and earth passed away, per Jesus) Not one jot or tittle would pass from it, and men were not supposed to add to it or take away from it.

Does that mean we'll have to follow those commands for eternity? If eternity, why would they end when Heaven and Earth pass?
Eternity is longer than when the earth and it's atmosphere is gone.

Is it possible the earth has already pass? Perhaps it never will. It may be eternal as with the Law.

 

[Artfuldodger]

????? Are you asking if love changed God's commandments, brother? God commendeth His love towards us in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. That changed a lot....but His commands were forever. Since Christ's death, those who accept His sacrifice no longer have to fear the punishment of failing.... but purposeful willful sin is still not ignored. Hebrews 10:26 I Cor 5 etc etc

I was offered on another thread that perhaps Love changes how we view God's commands. That love may conquer all. That from a certain perspective, the Love of God in the gift of His Son removed those commandments.

That maybe now, through Love, we no longer need those commands to guide us in loving others and God.

Maybe in some way, God's love of his Son, was imputed to us and through us. That we now have this love within us as a way of no longer needing the commandments.

So if we accept this Love from God, through His Son, we can now live using love instead of commandments.

I don't see this as what Paul is teaching us but many do. I guess I can see both sides. The Love part and the commandment part.

I'm just not real sure exactly what the Love part replaced or fulfilled.

 

[BANDERSNATCH]

Does that mean we'll have to follow those commands for eternity? If eternity, why would they end when Heaven and Earth pass?
Eternity is longer than when the earth and it's atmosphere is gone.

Is it possible the earth has already pass? Perhaps it never will. It may be eternal as with the Law.

You're startin' to scare me In Deuteronomy, Heaven and Earth were the witnesses of the eternal covenant. As long as they exist, the covenant is valid. Not sure how/if things will change after the millennial reign. What Revelation does say, though, is that only those who keeps God's commandments will enter THE BRIDE, the New Jerusalem

I was offered on another thread that perhaps Love changes how we view God's commands. That love may conquer all. That from a certain perspective, the Love of God in the gift of His Son removed those commandments.

That maybe now, through Love, we no longer need those commands to guide us in loving others and God.

Modern Christians need to tell the apostle John that.....and Paul....and our Messiah, who repeatedly asked us to 'keep my commandments". "Time is the ally of deceit" You have to admit, what standard churchianity presents today is nothing like what we read of 30 years after Jesus ascended in Acts

Acts 21

20 And when they heard it, they glorified the Lord, and said unto him, Thou seest, brother, how many thousands of Jews there are which believe; and they are all zealous of the law:

21 And they are informed of thee, that thou teachest all the Jews which are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise their children, neither to walk after the customs. (Churches still propagate this lie today)

22 What is it therefore? the multitude must needs come together: for they will hear that thou art come.

23 Do therefore this that we say to thee: We have four men which have a vow on them;

24 Them take, and purify thyself with them, and be at charges with them, that they may shave their heads: and all may know that those things, whereof they were informed concerning thee, are nothing; but that thou thyself also WALKEST ORDERLY, and KEEPEST THE LAW.

 

[Artfuldodger]

You're startin' to scare me In Deuteronomy, Heaven and Earth were the witnesses of the eternal covenant. As long as they exist, the covenant is valid. Not sure how/if things will change after the millennial reign. What Revelation does say, though, is that only those who keeps God's commandments will enter THE BRIDE, the New Jerusalem



Modern Christians need to tell the apostle John that.....and Paul....and our Messiah, who repeatedly asked us to 'keep my commandments". "Time is the ally of deceit" You have to admit, what standard churchianity presents today is nothing like what we read of 30 years after Jesus ascended in Acts

Acts 21

20 And when they heard it, they glorified the Lord, and said unto him, Thou seest, brother, how many thousands of Jews there are which believe; and they are all zealous of the law:

21 And they are informed of thee, that thou teachest all the Jews which are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise their children, neither to walk after the customs. (Churches still propagate this lie today)

22 What is it therefore? the multitude must needs come together: for they will hear that thou art come.

23 Do therefore this that we say to thee: We have four men which have a vow on them;

24 Them take, and purify thyself with them, and be at charges with them, that they may shave their heads: and all may know that those things, whereof they were informed concerning thee, are nothing; but that thou thyself also WALKEST ORDERLY, and KEEPEST THE LAW.

Just presenting perspectives as other brothers have shared with us on this forum. Not necessarily the views of myself but perhaps if we view all the variations, we can learn from it and strengthen our own beliefs.

 

[BANDERSNATCH]

Just presenting perspectives as other brothers have shared with us on this forum. Not necessarily the views of myself but perhaps if we view all the variations, we can learn from it and strengthen our own beliefs.

Always a good thing!

 

[StriperAddict]

The rules and the Law is an impossibility, but that's the whole point. It doesn't have power to clean us on the inside like the One final sacrifice can, because it cannot "make men perfect, but bringing in a better hope DID" (Heb). Romans says we died to the law by the body of Christ. Why? Because law revives sin, where grace gives us the power to live godly.

With that, I'll take both my justification in Christ with a pork sloppy Joe.

 

[Israel]

It's odd how any oath taking, any vow making, anything of the sort of "I will to do" from the now to the "then" ends up in frustration.

Now, admittedly, from the vantage of point of "the me" I easily survey many who are far greater in ability, will power, a devotion, clarity. God forbid I despise any from an envy. (and I ask for God's forbidding as a necessity, only because I see how very easily I have and may, fall into that) I admire endurance in those things I cannot deny (to myself) as good things, patience in tribulation, endurance in hope, sacrifice.

But, if I am allowed to be honest in admiration...I cannot but also be honest how for me...such a willing of myself to be more of what I admire, has always ended in failure. I, at best can only agree if seeing something I identify as a "good", that I see it...but to "be it" by will, is all of what has proven...frustrating.

That I may find some sort of scriptural endorsing of this is moot to me, not because I hold the scriptures of no regard, but more because I have learned, and perhaps am learning I am not, nor can be, justified by them. To say this has come with much use of them to a self justification is also kind of moot...for no one can believe this of me, unless they have been there, themselves. And, maybe no one has...or ever...should be! I may be far too peculiar to ever be found in the company of man. And of course, that can easily be no less a testimony of the grossest confession of pride.

Am I a man? Singular? Different...or just so unbearably common I truly...cannot bear this admission?

And I may well be (I don't know) whether this is a plain disqualification, that any and all of "what believes" would not and could not, ever do such. (Be so given to self deceit) So, at best I can only present myself as beggar, supplicant, mendicant for light. I recognize an ability (even strong proclivity!) to handle ...anything ...everything ...quite deceitfully in myself. For the purpose of...myself.

Unless there is a somebody to be "for me" what I plainly see is totally, not only inadequate, but dead set against any adequacy by a perversity, I am surely lost. The utter necessity of Jesus Christ to me (and for me) bears nothing of myth. Nor can be supported by it...even the most precious of all, once so tightly embraced (but O! so suddenly displayed as all of ash) "I am now a (the) better man".

I can no more make any sense of this to anyone, than I can make any sense of myself...to myself. How a thing can recognize good...and yet be totally bereft in all of its own will to the performance of it.

I don't doubt this can convey some ring of hopelessness to it. But it's funny how man is.

He saved others; himself he cannot save. If he be the King of Israel, let him now come down from the cross, and we will believe him.

Always demanding what they think will be to their increase and betterment, not knowing how they are contradicting their own salvation.

 

[NCHillbilly]

Unclean animals have a God-given purpose the earth; to clean it of garbage...like pigs and catfish do. there has always been unclean animals on the earth from the beginning, and God's people knew it. Noah was told to bring 7 pairs of clean animals on the Ark, as compared to a pair of unclean, so Noah knew the difference between unclean and clean animals then.

God does not change. There has never been a commandment of God that He decided was no longer needed. The Law was perfect and was eternal (until heaven and earth passed away, per Jesus) Not one jot or tittle would pass from it, and men were not supposed to add to it or take away from it.

I will give up my unclean pork, shrimp, catfish, and frog legs when Jesus pries them out of my cold, dead fingers.

 

[gemcgrew]

The rules and the Law is an impossibility, but that's the whole point. It doesn't have power to clean us on the inside like the One final sacrifice can, because it cannot "make men perfect, but bringing in a better hope DID" (Heb). Romans says we died to the law by the body of Christ. Why? Because law revives sin, where grace gives us the power to live godly.

With that, I'll take both my justification in Christ with a pork sloppy Joe.

Yes. God's measuring of our behavior was put away at Calvary.

 

[welderguy]

The kingdom of God is neither meat nor drink.

Romans 14
1 Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations.
2 For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs.
3 Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him.


If you're in the kingdom, you're free from the law of sin and death.

 

[Artfuldodger]

The kingdom of God is neither meat nor drink.

Romans 14
1 Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations.
2 For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs.
3 Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him.


If you're in the kingdom, you're free from the law of sin and death.

Those people that were "in," back in Paul's day sure did have a lot of problems with being, "weak in the faith." I'm not denying that they weren't "in," just that Paul sure presented them with a lot of guidelines.

I guess I'm trying to understated Paul's purpose beyond being free from the Law of Sin and death. He did preach that.

Yet I also see he had many rules and guides similar to laws. Maybe not the Law but laws.

 

[Artfuldodger]

Yes. God's measuring of our behavior was put away at Calvary.

But then Paul explains in his epistles how to behave?