Atheists and ghosts?

[ambush80]

I don't think of hearing voices you are familiar with and hearing 'voices' are even close to the same. No one could be familiar with the voice of God or their dog, etc.

Great point. The answer to that will be "I just knew it was him/her" or "It was unmistakably him/her".

 

[Dialer]

No eyes as in empty eye holes or no eye holes?

She just said the apparition had no eyes, and was right in her face when She woke up...

 

[ambush80]

I used to meditate allot. Often I would concentrate on my breathing. Sometimes I would try to focus on a single sensation. Some times I would try to recreate a sensation, like the taste of a strawberry. I got good enough at it where I couldn't distinguish the thought of eating a strawberry from the experience of actually eating one.

On more than one occasion I have been awakened from sleep (or I might have been on the verge of waking) by voices or touches. One time I heard a woman's voice say "hey" and I felt the sheets pulled off my legs and a hand grab my right calf. I snapped up and the sheets were off my legs and I had the lingering sensation of having been groped.

Two things, and this is in no way meant to explain anybody else's experience:

1. Weird things happen in the state of sleep or semi-sleep.
2. I am able to create experiences with my mind that are indistinguishable from the actual experience.

Those two facts give me a different way to analyze some kinds of paranormal experiences.

 

[j_seph]

In the story above regarding evil ghosts that can do physical things in the physical world, Why would a wall or door, or boards be able to contain something or things that do not operate within our laws of physics and time/place constraints?
A woman committed suicide in a bathroom. The bathroom is sealed off by less than magical means. All is good until the physical barrier is opened and then the dead lady and a host of other ghouls are now suddenly freed to run amok in the physical world and they actually have powers to interact and cause physical harm to the living? But those powers didnt work for many many many years because of some sheetrock?

Like I said, I cannot think of a legitimate answer for any of it. Nobody will be able to explain it using any sort of evidence.
So I wish I was there to witness it to compare my experience with someone else who was also there.

As of right now we have,: a dead lady's spirit locked away in a closed room and unable to escape because ?____? Is suddenly released because ?____? and also before her release somehow more bad spirits got in there because ?___? and they were also trapped in there because ?____? And they could get in there but couldn't get out because ?____? But once they got out they are all of a sudden able to use powers, which they could not use previously, to cause harm to people who are not dead...
Simply saying that a portal was opened is a claim or an assertion that has no proof. It is an excuse. I have a hard time being convinced that the sectioned off room became a gathering spot for numerous spirits who did not have the powers to defy physics and logic to get beyond a wall, then all of a sudden can defy physics and logic once the room was opened.

Maybe that doorway/boarded up area had been anointed and that was what kept them at bay

 

[bullethead]

Maybe that doorway/boarded up area had been anointed and that was what kept them at bay

Maybe.
Or maybe the spirits were allergic to wallpaper glue? Or.....X1000

 

[ambush80]

Maybe that doorway/boarded up area had been anointed and that was what kept them at bay

Who can close a portal? A Catholic priest? A Wiccan? A Buddhist monk? A Navajo shaman? Could I do it if I read a book of spells?

 

[660griz]

I used to meditate allot. Often I would concentrate on my breathing. Sometimes I would try to focus on a single sensation. Some times I would try to recreate a sensation, like the taste of a strawberry. I got good enough at it where I couldn't distinguish the thought of eating a strawberry from the experience of actually eating one.

On more than one occasion I have been awakened from sleep (or I might have been on the verge of waking) by voices or touches. One time I heard a woman's voice say "hey" and I felt the sheets pulled off my legs and a hand grab my right calf. I snapped up and the sheets were off my legs and I had the lingering sensation of having been groped.

Two things, and this is in no way meant to explain anybody else's experience:

1. Weird things happen in the state of sleep or semi-sleep.
2. I am able to create experiences with my mind that are indistinguishable from the actual experience.

Those two facts give me a different way to analyze some kinds of paranormal experiences.

To sum up 1 and 2, the mind is a powerful thing.
The reason placebos and prayer have the illusion of working sometimes.

 

[ambush80]

To sum up 1 and 2, the mind is a powerful thing.
The reason placebos and prayer have the illusion of working sometimes.

https://wgntv.com/2017/08/31/woman-...live-as-rare-condition-causes-blisters-sores/

“She will literally feel the heat come up and it will blister and develop to sores,” Dr. van der Merwe said.

Real physical bodily manifestations caused by a mental state. How much more likely is it to be able feel "The loving warmth and presence of God" than to think you're on fire and have blisters and sores appear. How about all those scratches and welts that appear on people "attacked by demons"? I'm sure she doesn't care if the pain is all in her head anymore than a believer feeling the loving warmth and peaceful presence of God does. It's real enough to them.

 

[bullethead]

Our bodies are vessels of energy. For most people the things work as they are seemingly supposed to. For others, that energy manifests itself in different ways. There are always exceptions to the rule. I really doubt that all the "normal" people are actually normal as it seems that our bodies and minds are as unique as the individual. I cannot imagine that with over 7 billion humans in the planet that there are even two alike in every way. We each take in, use, and interpret energy in various ways.

 

[WaltL1]

I don't think of hearing voices you are familiar with and hearing 'voices' are even close to the same. No one could be familiar with the voice of God or their dog, etc.

Unless..... mentally…… you have assigned them a voice and therefore recognize it as being them.
Are you a pet owner? I'll bet dollars to donuts your family have assigned Fido a "voice".
I completely understand the distinction you are making though. Im just throwing out tid bits to maybe show it can be a little more complicated.
As for God's voice, I'm going with like Charlton Heston in the old movies as opposed to say PeeWee Herman.

 

[bullethead]

I watched the Joker movie over the weekend. Not gonna spoil anything and I am definitely not saying anyone specifically in here with a belief in a god or spirits, ghosts etc is in any way mentally unstable.
But, the movie made me think about how people with mental conditions have completely different versions of reality than people who do not and how they can be influential to others. I am sure these conditions range from mild to wild and their experiences also fit in that range. I also dont think that there is a perfect human specimen on the planet and we all are a unique in our own ways. I DO think people hear, see, and experience things that to them are indiscernible from reality. Some may be more in tune with another dimension that possibly exists and others may be way out of tune with the reality that exists around them. Some can tap into parts of their brain that others may never know exists while others do not seem to be able to access the common areas. I just am not able to fully relate to everything others claim about the paranormal and religious experiences and it may be something on my end as well as theirs. But I can totally see how see how someone else interprets things differently from me and I always try to get them to put in in ways I can understand or if they say things are true to back them up with proven examples and facts.

 

[660griz]

Unless..... mentally…… you have assigned them a voice and therefore recognize it as being them.
Are you a pet owner? I'll bet dollars to donuts your family have assigned Fido a "voice".
I completely understand the distinction you are making though. Im just throwing out tid bits to maybe show it can be a little more complicated.
As for God's voice, I'm going with like Charlton Heston in the old movies as opposed to say PeeWee Herman.

I have a dog, a cat, 5 goats, and 6 chickens. All pets. I have not assigned a 'human' voice to them. I guess I am weird. They each have their own sounds. I do talk to them like they are human though.

 

[WaltL1]

I have a dog, a cat, 5 goats, and 6 chickens. All pets. I have not assigned a 'human' voice to them. I guess I am weird. They each have their own sounds. I do talk to them like they are human though.

Yep, you are weird
Ive never met a pet owner that didn't vocalize for their pets to other family members etc using a particular voice for that pet.
Well I do know a guy that owns some serious coon dogs that hasnt but his dogs aren't really "family pets".

 

[660griz]

Yep, you are weird

I am not surprised. I am an atheist voting 'conservative'.

 

[WaltL1]

I am not surprised. I am an atheist voting 'conservative'.

Good luck. Im not sure there is actually a conservative to vote for.
But thats a whole other conversation.

 

[JB0704]

Yep, you are weird
Ive never met a pet owner that didn't vocalize for their pets to other family members etc using a particular voice for that pet.
Well I do know a guy that owns some serious coon dogs that hasnt but his dogs aren't really "family pets".

All my pets have voices. It's fun.

 

[JB0704]

Im a believer in God who doesn't believe in ghosts. I always use a quote from Ambush when discussing such with those who believe they exist......."how did their clothes, swords, etc pass through to the spirit world." It's interesting to me how all ghosts seem to be a snapshot in time of a certain person or thing..........if you became a ghost, what age ghost would it be? Teenage you? infant you? Adult you? Old you?

I may have missed a few pages of discussions on these things, just thought I would throw it out there for old times sake. Miss debating with you guys.

 

[bullethead]

I have dreamed things that seemed as real as anything that has happened while I was awake. I can believe instances can and do occur where the brain can blend dreams with reality. It seems to happen quite often in elderly and or people with illnesses so why could it not happen with younger/healthy people where they would be 100% sure they saw something or someone that was locked away in their brain somewhere?? Could be perceived as a ghost or a god....

 

[WaltL1]

All my pets have voices. It's fun.

Brent!
Of course your pets have voices. How else would they talk to us
And I saw your pics of your new little slice of Shangri-La.
To borrow a phrase - you certainly seem to be blessed!

 

[JB0704]

Brent!
Of course your pets have voices. How else would they talk to us
And I saw your pics of your new little slice of Shangri-La.
To borrow a phrase - you certainly seem to be blessed!

Thanks my friend! FYI.......that little pond is full of bass, some good'ns too. Come down fishing with me anytime! I will also have a dove hunt or two if you like that sorta thing as well. I'll send a PM sometime, and see if I can't get you down for a visit.