Another sad case

[Artfuldodger]

I hope most of the Protestants realize they came from the Catholic Church. That at one time there was only One Church.
Protestants also believe that this same Church they are now calling a cult established at Nicea the creeds that they themselves follow.

There are some Baptist that don't follow these "creeds of man" as they call them.

 

[SemperFiDawg]

I could agree with getting away from that. Although I don’t view the whole denomination the way I view a certain church in a denomination. There’s good honest people in all denominations that are really doing everything they know to live right. Those will find their way.

I agree.

 

[SemperFiDawg]

I hope most of the Protestants realize they came from the Catholic Church. That at one time there was only One Church.
.

Wrong. After even a casual reading of Foxes Book of Martyrs most would come to the conclusion there were many groups outside of the Catholic Church that held up protestant beliefs down through the ages.

 

[WaltL1]

Wrong. After even a casual reading of Foxes Book of Martyrs most would come to the conclusion there were many groups outside of the Catholic Church that held up protestant beliefs down through the ages.

Cults!!

 

[ky55]

Cults!!

AKA heretics.

 

[Artfuldodger]

Wrong. After even a casual reading of Foxes Book of Martyrs most would come to the conclusion there were many groups outside of the Catholic Church that held up protestant beliefs down through the ages.

I did say most, perhaps half?
Anyway many of the Protestant Churches that stem from the protest still believe in what was settled at the Nicene Councils. It's even a part of their own covenants and creeds. The Ecumenical creeds.

There are some Baptist that don't follow these creeds. I'm sure there are others as well. I should not have said "most." Maybe some.

It's interesting to me how those from the protest can call them a cult when they still follow their creeds. Maybe they see them as becoming a cult and not having always been one.

Even in Protestant Churches where these creeds are not a part of their creed, some Churches still use them in worship. They aren't actually used in every Protestant Church's doctrine.

They also use the same Bible books indexed by those men in Nicea.

I stand corrected.

 

[redwards]

Why would that one belief make them only claim to be a Christian denomination? Some denominations believe in Oneness meaning they aren't Trinitarian. We can't all be right. Do we even have to be as long as we believe Jesus is the Son of God and died for our sins?
Oneness believe Trinitarians are as wrong as the JW's.

None of us really know the answer because it hasn't even been revealed yet. Yet we are quick to cast other believers into the pit because they don't see every belief exactly as we do.

There is one God, the Father ... and one Lord, Jesus Christ.
Jesus said "My Father and your Father, my God and your God."

Wasn't trying to imply that the one verse is the reason...was only pointing to the fact that while their beliefs are stated with certain scripture...if one looks on their website and does some searches, they believe Jesus is Michael the archangel...
quoted directly from their website...
"Rather, it is more reasonable to conclude that both names, Jesus and Michael, refer to the same person."
As for my "claiming to be christian" statement...I base that on some of the beliefs of the founder...Charles Taze Russell...
"Unlike so many other false teachers before and after him, Russell did not rely upon visions or other extra-biblical revelation. Rather, he simply interpreted, and misinterpreted, the Bible. While claiming to be a Christian and, in fact, a Christian who was restoring the faith of the New Testament, he denied many key Christian doctrines including eternal punishment, the Trinity, the deity of Christ, and the existence of the Holy Spirit.

Russell, as with most Adventists, denied the existence of **** as a place where the wicked face God’s wrath. He also held that the soul simply ceases to exist after death." ...
Source of the quote...
https://www.challies.com/articles/the-false-teachers-charles-taze-russell/

 

[Artfuldodger]

Wasn't trying to imply that the one verse is the reason...was only pointing to the fact that while their beliefs are stated with certain scripture...if one looks on their website and does some searches, they believe Jesus is Michael the archangel...
quoted directly from their website...
"Rather, it is more reasonable to conclude that both names, Jesus and Michael, refer to the same person."
As for my "claiming to be christian" statement...I base that on some of the beliefs of the founder...Charles Taze Russell...
"Unlike so many other false teachers before and after him, Russell did not rely upon visions or other extra-biblical revelation. Rather, he simply interpreted, and misinterpreted, the Bible. While claiming to be a Christian and, in fact, a Christian who was restoring the faith of the New Testament, he denied many key Christian doctrines including eternal punishment, the Trinity, the deity of Christ, and the existence of the Holy Spirit.

Russell, as with most Adventists, denied the existence of **** as a place where the wicked face God’s wrath. He also held that the soul simply ceases to exist after death." ...
Source of the quote...
https://www.challies.com/articles/the-false-teachers-charles-taze-russell/

Do you really believe one must believe He11 is a place of eternal punishment by fire to receive a call and acceptance from the Father?
If that belief was a prerequisite, why would God even call an individual who believes differently?
I've always thought it was salvation from eternal death to everlasting life.

 

[Spotlite]

Or is it that some things worked out to your benefit and some did not?

I ask because if you've had multiple prayers answered just for you alone , how is a child that is peril denied an request?

Frankly, it's my opinion that it is a twisted thought process to think that some creature is answering some and not others. And I do think praying to have a molester stop what they are doing is a worthy prayer to ask and have answered.

Do you feel

I`ve had many that were specific and not associated with happen chance.

Who said the child was denied a request? Praying to have molesters stopped is a worthy prayer, who done it there? Who done what to stop what they know is happening? If you expose you and your family to certain things, who`s fault is it?

The rest is noted as your opinion.

 

[Spotlite]

Especially when his employees are the ones at fault...

Not everyone wearing the suit is an employee though. Just like every Atheist isn't a murderer..............

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...-creepy-weird-classmates-latest-a8041161.html

 

[Spotlite]

I did say most, perhaps half?
Anyway many of the Protestant Churches that stem from the protest still believe in what was settled at the Nicene Councils. It's even a part of their own covenants and creeds. The Ecumenical creeds.

There are some Baptist that don't follow these creeds. I'm sure there are others as well. I should not have said "most." Maybe some.

There`s many that don't follow those creeds and have no ties to the catholic church regardless of what the Wikipedia says. A lot of stuff that some of those research groups have to say are not even close to what happens in other denominations and what they believe in.

 

[bullethead]

Not everyone wearing the suit is an employee though. Just like every Atheist isn't a murderer..............

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...-creepy-weird-classmates-latest-a8041161.html

They might not act like employees, but after you have completed the process to become a priest, you are an employee.

Apples and oranges to your atheist murderer analogy.
You can compare and athiest to a christian. You can compare them if they do something and declare it was done in the name of their beliefs on non beliefs. Everyone identifies with some sort of beliefs, but it doesn't always play into their actions or things that happen to them.
Like if someone gets run over and killed while jogging and were of Catholic faith. They didnt get run over because they were catholic...that is just a side note UNLESS the one in the car said that he specifically ran them over because of their religion.

But a member of clergy IS a representative of god. And once ordained they are the representative. And if they are diddling kids IN a Church and wearing the cloth...you cannot say that they are not an employee or representative. And even if it happening in "gods house" by no matter who....god shouod be on watch.

Passing the buck to parents is a poor excuse.

 

[Spotlite]

They might not act like employees, but after you have completed the process to become a priest, you are an employee.

Apples and oranges to your atheist murderer analogy.
You can compare and athiest to a christian. You can compare them if they do something and declare it was done in the name of their beliefs on non beliefs. Everyone identifies with some sort of beliefs, but it doesn't always play into their actions or things that happen to them.
Like if someone gets run over and killed while jogging and were of Catholic faith. They didnt get run over because they were catholic...that is just a side note UNLESS the one in the car said that he specifically ran them over because of their religion.

But a member of clergy IS a representative of god. And once ordained they are the representative. And if they are diddling kids IN a Church and wearing the cloth...you cannot say that they are not an employee or representative. And even if it happening in "gods house" by no matter who....god shouod be on watch.

Passing the buck to parents is a poor excuse.

Point is anyone can get killed or hurt at any time. That in no way implies that God does not exist.

Completing anything does`nt make you anything other than self called unless God calls you to preach. If you think being a member of the clergy and ordained makes a person a man of God, I have some ocean front property in Arizona that I will just give you, and a couple of jack leg want a bees I would love to introduce you to. One in particular became a "man of God" so he could make extra money on funerals.

Remember Jim Jones???????? Better check them out a little deeper before you follow them is all I am saying. 3 John 1 vs 11.

 

[bullethead]

Point is anyone can get killed or hurt at any time. That in no way implies that God does not exist.

Completing anything does`nt make you anything other than self called unless God calls you to preach. If you think being a member of the clergy and ordained makes a person a man of God, I have some ocean front property in Arizona that I will just give you, and a couple of jack leg want a bees I would love to introduce you to. One in particular became a "man of God" so he could make extra money on funerals.

Remember Jim Jones???????? Better check them out a little deeper before you follow them is all I am saying. 3 John 1 vs 11.

Jim Jones was self proclaimed. He didn't attend the seminary and he wasn't ordained by the church.
You can try to distance your god from these priests and those priests from your god, but you are not doing a good job. If what you say is true about your god being involved in religion and in every other aspect of life, then he dropped the ball repeatedly on these molestations from priests. You know he knows about it, its happening in his buildings, and he does nothing. Won't or can't are the only two reasons.

 

[ky55]

Jim Jones was self proclaimed. He didn't attend the seminary and he wasn't ordained by the church.
You can try to distance your god from these priests and those priests from your god, but you are not doing a good job. If what you say is true about your god being involved in religion and in every other aspect of life, then he dropped the ball repeatedly on these molestations from priests. You know he knows about it, its happening in his buildings, and he does nothing. Won't or can't are the only two reasons.

Epicurus got it right a long time ago:

“Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?”


*

 

[WaltL1]

Epicurus got it right a long time ago:

“Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?”


*

To us that's ^ really hard to get around.
To believers its not even a speed bump.

 

[Spotlite]

Jim Jones was self proclaimed. He didn't attend the seminary and he wasn't ordained by the church.
You can try to distance your god from these priests and those priests from your god, but you are not doing a good job. If what you say is true about your god being involved in religion and in every other aspect of life, then he dropped the ball repeatedly on these molestations from priests. You know he knows about it, its happening in his buildings, and he does nothing. Won't or can't are the only two reasons.

As I said before, completing that seminary and being ordained doesn’t make a man God called.

It’s been hashed out many times, everything claiming to be something doesn’t make it that.

The church failed many times covering this up and now it’s God’s fault?

 

[Spotlite]

Epicurus got it right a long time ago:

“Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?”


*

The problem isn’t God. Willing and able is not the same as forcing. What’s ironic is so many claim to have a solid understanding about how all of this works and use it to support their non belief, yet they don’t .

 

[WaltL1]

As I said before, completing that seminary and being ordained doesn’t make a man God called.

It’s been hashed out many times, everything claiming to be something doesn’t make it that.

The church failed many times covering this up and now it’s God’s fault?

I think Bullet's point isn't that its "God's fault"
Christians, many not all , give God credit for saving a life in a car crash etc but NEVER assign blame to God for not saving someone in a car crash etc.
If one is true the other is true also.

 

[ky55]

I think Bullet's point isn't that its "God's fault"
Christians, many not all , give God credit for saving a life in a car crash etc but NEVER assign blame to God for not saving someone in a car crash etc.
If one is true the other is true also.

I gave an example of that on here awhile back about a cousin whose abdominal pain was misdiagnosed as a hernia for several months, and it turned out to be colon cancer.
After the usual surgery and chemo he’s been cancer free for a year.

He says the lord “led” him to a good surgeon, but he didn’t mention who led him to the doc who told him he had a hernia and failed to diagnose the cancer.

Please, give me a break.