Spotlite
Resident Homesteader
I realize that they got together, but I also know that NOTHING they decided on has NOTHING to do with or can even come close to the salvation as we know it. They missed that part by a mile.
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Beliefs
- Thread starter Brother David
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Spotlite
Resident Homesteader
Wrong. I know exactly where my church started. It ain’t from them. And it ain’t from some historian commentary. Read Acts.
Remember there’s a difference in the spiritual side of this.
bullethead
Of the hard cast variety
I know, I know, I know...you don't need "them" now that you've used what they put together to get you started and you have filled in your own blanks since the initial baseline with the spirit stuff.
Like your KJV...written roughly 1300 years AFTER the earliest copies, and written by Englishmen who had no idea about Hebrew. And taken from what copies the Catholic Church allowed to exist (they burned the rest) But , you use it because it works for you and therefore you excuse the errors with "the spirit makes up for all that" thoughts.
I get it.
Don't forget who decided Acts made the book though...
Israel
BANNED
The promised gift has never been the scriptures of themselves, but always and only to what they may help lead.
The gift of the Holy Spirit given in the name of Jesus Christ.
Can the scriptures be a help there? Of course. Can they be appreciated rightly to that help? ...even more I would say. Are they themselves though, the writings, and of themselves, the all into which a man is given to put his trust? Are they?
Is "the book" the new life, the newness of life, and even great study of it...(and there may be found many pleasures in searching it out) all and only what "delimits" the Kingdom of God?
Is there a mind which imagines, believes, is even convicted there is a regal podium in Heaven, and so arrayed in such glory as a man might imagine, and beyond imagining...and upon this sits "The Bible"? (Cue the spotlights)
I believe so. I believe I have touched these minds, in truth. I have touched minds that so exalt the "KJV" (for example) as to, in so many words reduced, be saying quite plainly "It's the version God Himself...uses".
Laugh if you will, laugh if you care to. Laugh...if you dare to.
Is the Book...the end of all things?
Handling this book as weapon is the most two edged of swords. The man who might do so might learn. Will he decry to God over those who do not "receive it"? As he presents it? On what grounds? Is Jesus Christ "Bible dependent" so to speak? (Does Christ stand because a book is true...or is the book shown true in the standing of Christ?) If so...if he sees it as such, reads the "instructions" as such, says he embraces the instructions...as such (and convinces himself "the Bible" =Jesus Christ) is he the man who "prays without ceasing?" The man who rejoices in (all) tribulation? Gives thanks in and for all things? Is he the man who loves not his own life even unto death? On which thing upon that he believes he might exalt "the Bible" as all and final authority, might he not equally find himself...condemned?
"Do what the Bible teaches."
Which part? The part where Cain slays Abel? Where Judas betrays with a kiss? Where David covets another man's wife...and sets out to slay him?
Ain't that funny? I didn't need the Bible to learn to do that...at all!
What I did need to see is myself...and someone else. And I needed to see how easily I would judge the above men...not even knowing whom I was judging. I needed...someone else to show me. A difference. Between He, and I. Now I had some basis for identity that went beyond my imaginings of whom "I am" in the light of His..."am-ness". Yes...it was a deep gift, but of all necessity. Just beginning to explore it, myself. There is a person...another person is made...to relate to! One cannot ever know himself apart from the knowing of another...and when that other says "yourself" is perfect and suitable basis for exchange in this, well, every man will find out (if he hasn't already)...even your dearest wife, at times, wants you "a little different"! (Unless, of course, you don't know her...at all.) And that would be a shame to a man...not knowing his wife.
Ahhh, but this other, ain't no one like. "Are you cleaning me because you don't like me?"
nope, I'm cleaning you cause you don't even know you can't bear yourself!"
But Lord, I feel quite comfortable and presentable to myself!
"Yeah, that's the first sign of disease."
"And you're going where disease...ain't"
Look, we can all probably quote "ye do search the scriptures believing that in them you will find eternal life, and they are that which testify of me, but you will not come to me that you might have life".
Was Jesus making less of the scriptures? God forbid!
Was Jesus saying something about man, about how man relates, even to truth as written and declared truth (even by such men!) that an impediment remaining, of which He alone can remove...blinds men to the truth...even when right before them? Is it lack of study? More effort...needed? More...what? Needed? Better translations? Better lexicons? (None of which God may be found despising...unless a man might be tempted to believe "he" can figure this out...then...he may learn something about his own calculus)
The one thing lacking. Jesus speaks to man who does the law, who does "the instructions" about "but this one thing you lack"...
And what of Paul, what of his instruction, his words...his knowings? What does a man do with "The Lord says this..." but in another place..."I say this, and not the Lord..."
That's just..."me"? If it's all and only a book to be legally followed, exalted as be all, and end all of all things...and in the book is written "this is just me...not the Lord"...what do we find? If we do not see the inspiration we cannot see the "inspirer"...and that is not the fault "of the book".
And what of what we are told "is there"...but not recorded? By John...of the many "other things"...that if a book were written of all, the world could not contain...?
Yes, the book we have is more than sufficient to bring us to something. But it is the Someone to which it brings...that is all and only "Alpha and Omega" and the promise revealed in Him and through Him, and by His work.
Did Paul say (of some man...) he saw things, heard things...which it is not lawful to utter? Does that man's obedience to not speak them (as I believe he was) to their recording "in the book" or in epistle or mention (did Paul know he was writing for at least 50 generations hence from his time?) mean they are somehow "less than real and true"...because we do not find these things unlawful to utter...uttered?
I am not, as some might easily think, seeking to make "less" of the scriptures. God knows with whom I would be entering into such contention. God silences a man, God bids a man speak. God may bid one man write, another find it forbidden. Jesus may say "I have yet much to tell you...but you cannot bear it now..." One man may say "I have delivered to you the whole counsel of God".
For a man to be in that place of knowing in part, knowing there is more, and much more that he does not yet know...and is told so...and can find the place of the bearing of it...and find what is in that place alone...now delivered into the earth in and through His name...
We may see what is inside of Jesus Christ, who is inside of Jesus Christ, and how He is inside of Jesus Christ. As God wills a man may even hear stones singing Hosannas. And see the Lord.
Or be reproved by an a**.
The gift of the Holy Spirit given in the name of Jesus Christ.
Can the scriptures be a help there? Of course. Can they be appreciated rightly to that help? ...even more I would say. Are they themselves though, the writings, and of themselves, the all into which a man is given to put his trust? Are they?
Is "the book" the new life, the newness of life, and even great study of it...(and there may be found many pleasures in searching it out) all and only what "delimits" the Kingdom of God?
Is there a mind which imagines, believes, is even convicted there is a regal podium in Heaven, and so arrayed in such glory as a man might imagine, and beyond imagining...and upon this sits "The Bible"? (Cue the spotlights)
I believe so. I believe I have touched these minds, in truth. I have touched minds that so exalt the "KJV" (for example) as to, in so many words reduced, be saying quite plainly "It's the version God Himself...uses".
Laugh if you will, laugh if you care to. Laugh...if you dare to.
Is the Book...the end of all things?
Handling this book as weapon is the most two edged of swords. The man who might do so might learn. Will he decry to God over those who do not "receive it"? As he presents it? On what grounds? Is Jesus Christ "Bible dependent" so to speak? (Does Christ stand because a book is true...or is the book shown true in the standing of Christ?) If so...if he sees it as such, reads the "instructions" as such, says he embraces the instructions...as such (and convinces himself "the Bible" =Jesus Christ) is he the man who "prays without ceasing?" The man who rejoices in (all) tribulation? Gives thanks in and for all things? Is he the man who loves not his own life even unto death? On which thing upon that he believes he might exalt "the Bible" as all and final authority, might he not equally find himself...condemned?
"Do what the Bible teaches."
Which part? The part where Cain slays Abel? Where Judas betrays with a kiss? Where David covets another man's wife...and sets out to slay him?
Ain't that funny? I didn't need the Bible to learn to do that...at all!
What I did need to see is myself...and someone else. And I needed to see how easily I would judge the above men...not even knowing whom I was judging. I needed...someone else to show me. A difference. Between He, and I. Now I had some basis for identity that went beyond my imaginings of whom "I am" in the light of His..."am-ness". Yes...it was a deep gift, but of all necessity. Just beginning to explore it, myself. There is a person...another person is made...to relate to! One cannot ever know himself apart from the knowing of another...and when that other says "yourself" is perfect and suitable basis for exchange in this, well, every man will find out (if he hasn't already)...even your dearest wife, at times, wants you "a little different"! (Unless, of course, you don't know her...at all.) And that would be a shame to a man...not knowing his wife.
Ahhh, but this other, ain't no one like. "Are you cleaning me because you don't like me?"
nope, I'm cleaning you cause you don't even know you can't bear yourself!"
But Lord, I feel quite comfortable and presentable to myself!
"Yeah, that's the first sign of disease."
"And you're going where disease...ain't"
Look, we can all probably quote "ye do search the scriptures believing that in them you will find eternal life, and they are that which testify of me, but you will not come to me that you might have life".
Was Jesus making less of the scriptures? God forbid!
Was Jesus saying something about man, about how man relates, even to truth as written and declared truth (even by such men!) that an impediment remaining, of which He alone can remove...blinds men to the truth...even when right before them? Is it lack of study? More effort...needed? More...what? Needed? Better translations? Better lexicons? (None of which God may be found despising...unless a man might be tempted to believe "he" can figure this out...then...he may learn something about his own calculus)
The one thing lacking. Jesus speaks to man who does the law, who does "the instructions" about "but this one thing you lack"...
And what of Paul, what of his instruction, his words...his knowings? What does a man do with "The Lord says this..." but in another place..."I say this, and not the Lord..."
That's just..."me"? If it's all and only a book to be legally followed, exalted as be all, and end all of all things...and in the book is written "this is just me...not the Lord"...what do we find? If we do not see the inspiration we cannot see the "inspirer"...and that is not the fault "of the book".
And what of what we are told "is there"...but not recorded? By John...of the many "other things"...that if a book were written of all, the world could not contain...?
Yes, the book we have is more than sufficient to bring us to something. But it is the Someone to which it brings...that is all and only "Alpha and Omega" and the promise revealed in Him and through Him, and by His work.
Did Paul say (of some man...) he saw things, heard things...which it is not lawful to utter? Does that man's obedience to not speak them (as I believe he was) to their recording "in the book" or in epistle or mention (did Paul know he was writing for at least 50 generations hence from his time?) mean they are somehow "less than real and true"...because we do not find these things unlawful to utter...uttered?
I am not, as some might easily think, seeking to make "less" of the scriptures. God knows with whom I would be entering into such contention. God silences a man, God bids a man speak. God may bid one man write, another find it forbidden. Jesus may say "I have yet much to tell you...but you cannot bear it now..." One man may say "I have delivered to you the whole counsel of God".
For a man to be in that place of knowing in part, knowing there is more, and much more that he does not yet know...and is told so...and can find the place of the bearing of it...and find what is in that place alone...now delivered into the earth in and through His name...
We may see what is inside of Jesus Christ, who is inside of Jesus Christ, and how He is inside of Jesus Christ. As God wills a man may even hear stones singing Hosannas. And see the Lord.
Or be reproved by an a**.
Last edited:
gemcgrew
Senior Member
Do you know that you are strengthening the believer? Or do you imagine that you are weakening the believer?
Brother David
Senior Member
Religion has miss led many , therefore we must live by Faith .
bullethead
Of the hard cast variety
I am conversing with a believer. Each gets out of it what they want or need.
Brother David
Senior Member
Often I have a bad habit of trying to read between the lines . I believe some on this forum really want to believe . The one problematic issue is unsubstantiated proof . Christ warns us in word not to seek signs rather to walk by Faith . I challenge you to look up Faith.
bullethead
Of the hard cast variety
Challenge Accepted!
Now what?
bullethead
Of the hard cast variety
I understand what faith is and what faith means.
It is not faith that I have a problem with.
It is the source that tells me to have faith.
This may come as a surprise to you but....I just do not believe nor do I have faith that the contents of the bible are the words of any sort of deity. To the point of exactly ZERO on a scale of ZERO to Ten or Zero to Infinity on how much faith I have in it.
I am convinced to the point that I think it is more likely than not that the Bible and it's contents are the works of man. Period.
I think that it is more likely than not the works of various mostly anonymous authors (OT) who wrote about their history as a culture in a time when many if not all ancient cultures were truly convinced that they were special because a God or Gods liked them more than it liked their neighbors. History is FULL of those stories.
Then I think, mainly because the history of religions worldwide and mainly for this discussion, the Jewish religion was constantly being challenged from inside and out with new cults and leaders and sects and splinter groups (just like Christianity is) which all had their followers....comes a time where some latched on to a young Apocalyptic preacher and followed him(just like others before..during..and after..did). He made his run and got killed for it.
But, there was always someone else willing to Capitalize on it and Saul/Paul was able to say the things that people wanted to hear at the right time to start a religion around a man who was long dead.
If you study the history of how Christianity was decided upon to be the main religion for the most powerful Empire of the world, you will see it had NOTHING to do with divinity. It had everything to do with politicians, clergy and what was felt that would best be able to control the masses.
I am sorry, but I do not buy into the writings of some old guy telling me that some god told him that I should disregard all the things that just do not add up because I should just have faith.
I dont have faith in that source of faith.
Brother David
Senior Member
Pray !
Brother David
Senior Member
I also don't trust men ! Hence my prayers and medication !
Have you ever asked your doctor about increasing your medication?
ambush80
Senior Member
I don't think I've ever seen these two words linked together like this in the positive.
WaltL1
Senior Member
I don't want or not want to believe.
WaltL1
Senior Member
ambush80
Senior Member
I don't want to think wrongly.
660griz
Senior Member
Is the doctor a man?
Brother David
Senior Member
bullethead
Of the hard cast variety
I wouldn't know who or what to pray to without the words of the untrustworthy men who wrote the things telling us who to pray to.
You would have absolutely no knowledge of any god had it not been written first by men.
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