A 1911 failure to feed tip.

[GT-40 GUY]

"Tuning" the 1911 extractor.

I was going to send it to a smith that really knows his stuff. It was going to cost me at least $100 and he probably would have done what I did to the extractor groove and sent it back to me. If you guys have never done this it is very easy. It takes more work & time to remove and put the extractor back together then grind and polish the groove. It allows the shell to align easier & faster in the extractor which makes the shell align perfectly with the chamber when the slide goes to battery.

Here is some reading to help:

http://blog.wilsoncombat.com/caliber...y-bill-wilson/

Here is a drawing that I did. It isn't very good, but I hope you get the idea. (?)

Bottom picture is the jam.

Also the grind stone used in my Dremel. I was very careful not to touch the vertical sides of the groove while grinding.

gt40

PS: If you have questions please ask.

[jglenn]

many good aftermarket extractors today already have the cuts and bevels and only need a bit of polishing..Brown and Wilson come to mind


extractor tension is the other half of the equation..

Brownells has the right tools for that piece.

[Wiskey_33]

I think your feeding issue lies here, not in the extractor.

[GT-40 GUY]

Originally Posted by Wiskey_33

I think your feeding issue lies here, not in the extractor.

If that is the issue what should I do to the thousands of cases.

gt40

[TaxPhd]

If you make those mods to the "Ejector" as your drawing indicates, you may well have problems.

[RBM]

Polish the feed ramp, then it will feed anything. I had a Thompson 1911A1 that I had to break in brand new once. A good gunsmith will do a nice job polishing the feed ramp. Right out of the box I had a lot of work to do on it and the feed ramp was one thing as I had failure to feed. The extractor worked great so I didn't mess with that or the ejector. I had to tight fit a barrel bushing and barrel lug. I also added a recoil spring buffer kit that had a new slightly lighter spring. Working and wearing in the slide with the frame was the big pain. Once all that was done it shot sweet with anything I fed it, Ball, HP, and SWCs. I shot it a lot so for practice I shot a lot of 185 gr. hard-cast SWC reloads.

[jglenn]

honestly the feed ramp is the last thing to look at on a 1911 on feed issues

magazines and extractors are 1st on the list of most common problems

the actual feeding of the round onto the extractor's hook is the issue there..extraction is the 2nd thing it does



following that can be the barrel setback away from the feed ramp


yes polishing the feed ramp can help but not the most common issue.


Afraid to say I've seen many 1911 messed up by improper "polishing" of the feed ramp. so be careful and stay way from Dremels

[GT-40 GUY]

qqq

[hayseed_theology]

Originally Posted by GT-40 GUY

"Tuning" the 1911 extractor.

I was going to send it to a smith that really knows his stuff. It was going to cost me at least $100 and he probably would have done what I did to the extractor groove and sent it back to me. If you guys have never done this it is very easy. It takes more work & time to remove and put the extractor back together then grind and polish the groove. It allows the shell to align easier & faster in the extractor which makes the shell align perfectly with the chamber when the slide goes to battery.

Here is some reading to help:

http://blog.wilsoncombat.com/caliber...y-bill-wilson/

Here is a drawing that I did. It isn't very good, but I hope you get the idea. (?)

Bottom picture is the jam.

Also the grind stone used in my Dremel. I was very careful not to touch the vertical sides of the groove while grinding.

gt40

PS: If you have questions please ask.

Interesting read. Thanks for sharing.

[Steve762us]

Good tip!

It'll assist chambering on any semi-auto that slides the case head up the breech face. A square needle file will usually be enough to break the corner, and take no more than needed.

[Totaloutdoorsman]

Change your recoil spring. They're supposed to be changed every 2500 rounds. My custom LA Vickers Colt 70 series was doing the same thing. If you put in a new, Wilson Combat 18.5# spring it should feed like a champ.

[tgc]

GT40, look, I'm in no way an expert 1911 guy. But if you reload, try seating your bullets a little deeper from the max overall length. Well, it worked for me.

After finding this out, I got some new mags. And I didn't need to seat the bullets deeper, because the new mags worked better than the ones that came with the gun.
You could try these couple of things.
Nice drawing. The grind looks as tough it would weaken the extractor to me.

[Walker44]

Originally Posted by RBM

Polish the feed ramp, then it will feed anything. I had a Thompson 1911A1 that I had to break in brand new once. A good gunsmith will do a nice job polishing the feed ramp. Right out of the box I had a lot of work to do on it and the feed ramp was one thing as I had failure to feed. The extractor worked great so I didn't mess with that or the ejector. I had to tight fit a barrel bushing and barrel lug. I also added a recoil spring buffer kit that had a new slightly lighter spring. Working and wearing in the slide with the frame was the big pain. Once all that was done it shot sweet with anything I fed it, Ball, HP, and SWCs. I shot it a lot so for practice I shot a lot of 185 gr. hard-cast SWC reloads.

------------- This poster is right on the ball
only 3 tings will cause you issue
1 - the recoil spring if too tight
2 - the ammo lacks the power to get the slide back faster and harder to move the next round up
3- the ramp is not polished enough to let the round slide up the ramp

Actually all the above are adjustments you can do yourself but for $100 is a good price for a professional job and alot less agravation

[Steve762us]

Originally Posted by tgc

Nice drawing. The grind looks as tough it would weaken the extractor to me.

All you're doing is putting a radius on the edge of extractor, where the case rim slides into the 'hook'--instead of having the case rim contact a square steel edge.

The typical extractor lets a round brass edge (case rim) rise up against a square-edged steel hook, with that round brass edge pushing the extractor laterally until the case runs out of 'push' (or the 'push' to chamber the round ceases).

The 'improved' extractor presents a rounded face to the case rim, and the collision will tend to act more like two rollers impacting. Add in the relative hardness difference, too- you can see small gouges in fired cases, where the steel extractor bit the brass, before camming out of the way.

It probably does weaken the hook in some respect, but I'd opine* it's not of any significance. The bending stress on the extractor hits further back, well clear of the actual claw.


*Offered free of charge, and worth every penny

[jglenn]

extractor will be fine with those mods... Wilson put out the 1st specs on doing this and they might know something about 1911s....


http://www.m1911.org/technic2.htm

[GT-40 GUY]

After I did this mod to my extractor I don't even need the feed ramp any more. The bullets pop right up parallel to the chamber and as the slide goes to battery the bullet goes straight into the chamber. NO MORE FTF.

In the bottom picture you can see that the bullet is trying to slide up the ramp before the case rim has entered the extractor claw to allow the bullet to get parallel to the chamber before the slide goes to battery. After the mod. is completed the case and the whole bullet goes up at the same time which keeps everything lined up with the chamber.

gt40

[The Rodney]

Tuning the extractor kept me from throwing my .45 in the pond. Now I love working on my 1911. Great gun to work on and shoot, glad you found a solution but do work on the ramp and take the time to polish off all the edges on the gun. It takes a few hours but the results are amazing.

[Steve762us]

Nice article on fitting firing pin stop, along with extractor & extractor tension, here:

http://www.brazoscustom.com/magart/0609.htm

Click the "Brazos Custom" logo at bottom of that page, and "Magazine Articles" for a list of other write-ups.

[ghadarits]

I've never had a feed problem unless I was using an 8 round mag with one in the pipe and 8 in the mag.

7 round mags have always been 100% but I've only put a couple thousand through it.

Is this a common issue with some 1911's?

[elfiii]

Originally Posted by RBM

Polish the feed ramp, then it will feed anything.

Originally Posted by Walker44

------------- This poster is right on the ball

Solved my feed jam problems on my stock Colt Mark VII Gold Cup National Match 1911. No more jams or FTF's regardless of the mag or ammo.

[rosewood]

Originally Posted by jglenn

honestly the feed ramp is the last thing to look at on a 1911 on feed issues

magazines and extractors are 1st on the list of most common problems

the actual feeding of the round onto the extractor's hook is the issue there..extraction is the 2nd thing it does

following that can be the barrel setback away from the feed ramp

yes polishing the feed ramp can help but not the most common issue.

Afraid to say I've seen many 1911 messed up by improper "polishing" of the feed ramp. so be careful and stay way from Dremels

I have to disagree on a Dremel. I polish the feed ramp of every handgun I own with a Dremel. It is about how you go about doing it. I take a small barrel shaped grinding stone then wrap it with 1000 grit and then 2000 grit sand paper. Gently go over the surfaces following the factory curvature with the 1000 grit then progress to the 2000 and you get a mirror finish. The trick is going slow and using a fine polishing wheel or sand paper in this case. Do not let the stone itself hit any metal, it is way too coarse for this task.


One thing to always remember on a 1911. Never, ever drop a round in the chamber and let the slide slam on it. Always load a round from the magazine. The 1911 extractor is rigid and not flexible or spring loaded like a lot of modern semi-autos. That practice will bend your extractor overtime and most definitely cause feeding/extraction issues eventually and will require you to re-tune your extractor or replace it. I had done this several times and then began having issues and no one knew what I was doing wrong. I then hit someone's post online that explained the issue. I replaced and tuned the extractor and haven't had an issue with a 1911 since.

[jglenn]

my comment about the dremel is from seeing way too many 1911 feed ramps ruined by folks changing the angle and rolling over the top edge in an attempt to blend the frame feed ramp into the barrel feed ramp... I have used a dremel but only used a felt polishing bob with polishing compound...even the rubber grit impregnated bobs can be too aggressive. Today I'd use my mill to cut the ramp if needed but you do have to setup the right angle(31.5 degrees).

you comment about the extractor is dead on..even seen broken ones from that practice but they were cheap extractors...

[rosewood]

Originally Posted by jglenn

my comment about the dremel is from seeing way too many 1911 feed ramps ruined by folks changing the angle and rolling over the top edge in an attempt to blend the frame feed ramp into the barrel feed ramp... I have used a dremel but only used a felt polishing bob with polishing compound...even the rubber grit impregnated bobs can be too aggressive. Today I'd use my mill to cut the ramp if needed but you do have to setup the right angle(31.5 degrees).

.

I don't change feed angles, just remove the tool marks so I can see myself. You treat it like you do your woman, gentle.

[7Mag Hunter]

Kinda late to this party, but seems odd to
look at the "extractor" when having "feed"
problems......
most of the 2 dozen or so of 1911s i have
had feed flawlessly after making sure the mags are clean and un damaged, and action is fairly smooth...
IF you shoot semi wad cutter ammo, it may be necessary to smooth, and or slightly lower the feed ramp,
especially of you have added an aftermarket barrel....
The 1911 was designed as a combat weapon, IME only has problems when
someone tries to fix something that is not broke...

[Steve762us]

Originally Posted by 7Mag Hunter

Kinda late to this party, but seems odd to
look at the "extractor" when having "feed"
problems......

Not really--the rim of round negotiates with the extractor, long before it even begins looking at the chamber. A problem with that negotiation will increase the likelihood of a failure to chamber, whether solely by it's own severity, or in concert with any other factors that are present to impede the process.

A sharp cornered extractor--alone--might not stop chambering by itself, but add in some fouling on chamber or breech face, a tired recoil spring, or a maybe weak hold, and suddenly that slide just ran out of steam...out of battery.

The 1911 has a few extra twists and tweaks as extractors go, but chamfering the feed edges of any 'slide-up-under-the-hook' style extractor is worth the minor effort.