A graphic on the reliability of the New Testament....

[ted_BSR]

Originally Posted by Asath

We'll wait.

I'll wait you ninny. Write me four paragraphs about my obtuseness.

[Asath]

Sir, I don't think that I said anything to merit the personal attack. If that is your entire intellectual arsenal, as displayed, then perhaps you are in the wrong Forum.

Down here, at the bottom of the Forums, we expect folks to defend their thoughts with at least some modicum of actual evidence, rather than simply perpetrate 'drive-by' assertions, engage in name-calling, and smugly rest their case.

That sort of thing is little more than playground bullying, and has no place in an adult Forum.

[TheBishop]

Originally Posted by Asath

Sir, I don't think that I said anything to merit the personal attack. If that is your entire intellectual arsenal, as displayed, then perhaps you are in the wrong Forum.

Down here, at the bottom of the Forums, we expect folks to defend their thoughts with at least some modicum of actual evidence, rather than simply perpetrate 'drive-by' assertions, engage in name-calling, and smugly rest their case.

That sort of thing is little more than playground bullying, and has no place in an adult Forum.

Go read some posts by mister ted. He is not the type to add to a discussion. His M.O. his hit and run posts that attack the writer not the position. Its typical when ones own position is weak, with little basis in fact. A very common liberal tactic as a matter fact.

I bet ted drives a prius with an O'12 sticker on the back!

[ambush80]

Originally Posted by ted_BSR

Here we go with the "Sir" thing again.

Your boogie rhetoric long word long wind mumbo jumbo speak better than thou crud know the truth speak of nothing just means PHLPTTTTTTT! Enjoy your intelligent discussion dude. I ain't buyin' it, DOOKEY!

This is like a response a twelve year old might give.

Nanny, nanny boo boo

[ted_BSR]

Originally Posted by ambush80

This is like a response a twelve year old might give.

Nanny, nanny boo boo

Thanks guys! I think it is some of my finest work.

[ted_BSR]

Originally Posted by TheBishop

Go read some posts by mister ted. He is not the type to add to a discussion. His M.O. his hit and run posts that attack the writer not the position. Its typical when ones own position is weak, with little basis in fact. A very common liberal tactic as a matter fact.

I bet ted drives a prius with an O'12 sticker on the back!

Should I word my attacks more like this?

[Asath]

That WAS a little beneath the dignity of this forum, Bishop.

Well earned, and certainly well deserved, but c’mon guys – let’s try to keep it above the swamp here. We win nothing by stooping to the tactics we receive, and it is well within our maturity levels to dodge a little bit of mud tossed our way.

For my own part, I’ve found that the ‘Ignore’ option helps to keep my own blood-pressure well within normal ranges . . .

[atlashunter]

Another graphic concerning biblical reliability...

http://www.project-reason.org/bibleContra_big.pdf

[TheBishop]

Originally Posted by Asath

That WAS a little beneath the dignity of this forum, Bishop.

Well earned, and certainly well deserved, but c’mon guys – let’s try to keep it above the swamp here. We win nothing by stooping to the tactics we receive, and it is well within our maturity levels to dodge a little bit of mud tossed our way.

For my own part, I’ve found that the ‘Ignore’ option helps to keep my own blood-pressure well within normal ranges . . .

Yeagh, I'm sorry that was pretty low.

[drippin' rock]

Originally Posted by atlashunter

Another graphic concerning biblical reliability...

http://www.project-reason.org/bibleContra_big.pdf

Off topic, thought I'd say I laugh every time I see your avatar. I could only stomach one season of Trailer Park Boys, but Bubbles stole every episode!

[ambush80]

Originally Posted by Asath

That WAS a little beneath the dignity of this forum, Bishop.

Well earned, and certainly well deserved, but c’mon guys – let’s try to keep it above the swamp here. We win nothing by stooping to the tactics we receive, and it is well within our maturity levels to dodge a little bit of mud tossed our way.

For my own part, I’ve found that the ‘Ignore’ option helps to keep my own blood-pressure well within normal ranges . . .

Why would you put anyone on 'ignore'? Those people are the most likely to offer something amusing.

[JB0704]

Originally Posted by ambush80

Why would you put anyone on 'ignore'? Those people are the most likely to offer something amusing.

I almost put somebody in the PF on the ignore list, but figured, it wuold make the forum less interesting. So, I don't have anybody on it.

[ambush80]

Originally Posted by JB0704

I almost put somebody in the PF on the ignore list, but figured, it wuold make the forum less interesting. So, I don't have anybody on it.

MUCH less interesting.

[atlashunter]

Originally Posted by drippin' rock

Off topic, thought I'd say I laugh every time I see your avatar. I could only stomach one season of Trailer Park Boys, but Bubbles stole every episode!

Off topic? I thought the topic was reliability of the New Testament?


Bubbles rocks. Watched every season multiple times. Yeah it's low budget brainless comedy but still cracks me up.

[drippin' rock]

Originally Posted by atlashunter

Off topic? I thought the topic was reliability of the New Testament?


Bubbles rocks. Watched every season multiple times. Yeah it's low budget brainless comedy but still cracks me up.

I mean my comment about your avatar is off topic.

It's been awhile, I might have to give them another shot. Did Ricky ever get his grade 10?

[atlashunter]

Originally Posted by drippin' rock

I mean my comment about your avatar is off topic.

It's been awhile, I might have to give them another shot. Did Ricky ever get his grade 10?

Yep. Got his grade 10 and went on to vacational school to sell hash.

[Asath]

“Why would you put anyone on 'ignore'? Those people are the most likely to offer something amusing.”

Agreed. To a point. Having a little tiny imitation of a dog yipping at your heels is amusing for about ten minutes. But having it follow you around and keep yipping and nipping passes the amusement stage at a certain point, and it takes an extraordinary patience and strength of will not to simply kick it over the back fence.

As you’ve noticed, I’m not a Christian, and have no subsequent mandate to suffer fools, and thus be somehow redeemed on account of having done so.

[ted_BSR]

Originally Posted by Asath

“Why would you put anyone on 'ignore'? Those people are the most likely to offer something amusing.”

Agreed. To a point. Having a little tiny imitation of a dog yipping at your heels is amusing for about ten minutes. But having it follow you around and keep yipping and nipping passes the amusement stage at a certain point, and it takes an extraordinary patience and strength of will not to simply kick it over the back fence.

As you’ve noticed, I’m not a Christian, and have no subsequent mandate to suffer fools, and thus be somehow redeemed on account of having done so.

Yip Yip Nip, kick me.

[ambush80]

Originally Posted by ted_BSR

Yip Yip Nip, kick me.

Your witness is showing again.

[ted_BSR]

Originally Posted by ambush80

Your witness is showing again.

I guess I am just tired of this "inteliigent discussion". Your circles just lead back to the beginning. Mine do the same, I am not denying that. I reckon I'll just have to agree to disagree.

[Asath]

Q.e.d.

[fish hawk]

Originally Posted by Asath

“.

As you’ve noticed, I’m not a Christian, and have no subsequent mandate to suffer fools, and thus be somehow redeemed on account of having done so.

OOps!!!

[Four]

Not to bring stuff back from the dead but i was watching a talk about the origins of the NT and parts that were modified etc and he said we have ~5,700 original copies in greek, most of them fragments. This chart says 24,000... He also said that the earliest copy we have of mark was 150 years after the original.

Did we ever get the sources to this?

edit: it turns out the earliest copy of the bible we have is a credit card sized piece of John, dated to about 125 AD.. about 40 years after it was originally written.

edit2: Holy crap, did you guys know this guy in 1700 got a printing press and wanted to print out greek copies of the NT... so he gathered about 100 manuscripts and compared them, took 30 years to compile one book from the 100, but cited the points they were different... of the 100 or so he compared, he cited 30,000 separate differences.... and that wasnt all he found, just what he felt relevant.

[centerpin fan]

Originally Posted by Four

Not to bring stuff back from the dead but i was watching a talk about the origins of the NT and parts that were modified etc and he said we have ~5,700 original copies in greek, most of them fragments. This chart says 24,000...

It's been awhile, so I had to go back to the OP to refresh my memory. I just did a quick search and found this:


"We have today in our possession 5,300 known Greek manuscripts of the New Testament, another 10,000 Latin Vulgates, and 9,300 other early versions (MSS), giving us more than 24,000 manuscript copies of portions of the New Testament in existence today!"

http://debate.org.uk/topics/history/bib-qur/bibmanu.htm

So, the 24K number includes languages other than Greek.

[stringmusic]

Originally Posted by Four

edit2: Holy crap, did you guys know this guy in 1700 got a printing press and wanted to print out greek copies of the NT... so he gathered about 100 manuscripts and compared them, took 30 years to compile one book from the 100, but cited the points they were different... of the 100 or so he compared, he cited 30,000 separate differences.... and that wasnt all he found, just what he felt relevant.

Originally Posted by centerpin fan

"We have today in our possession 5,300 known Greek manuscripts of the New Testament, another 10,000 Latin Vulgates, and 9,300 other early versions (MSS), giving us more than 24,000 manuscript copies of portions of the New Testament in existence today!"

http://debate.org.uk/topics/history/bib-qur/bibmanu.htm

So, the 24K number includes languages other than Greek.

Which probably also has a lot to do with the 30,000 "differences" as well.

[centerpin fan]

Originally Posted by Four

edit2: Holy crap, did you guys know this guy in 1700 got a printing press and wanted to print out greek copies of the NT... so he gathered about 100 manuscripts and compared them, took 30 years to compile one book from the 100, but cited the points they were different... of the 100 or so he compared, he cited 30,000 separate differences.... and that wasnt all he found, just what he felt relevant.

I'd really need more info to comment intelligently, but I will say that in 1700, most of the manuscripts that were known were of the Majority text. They were very similar and had only minor differences. It wasn't until the 19th century that other non-Majority texts like Vaticanus and Sinaiticus were discovered.

[Four]

Originally Posted by stringmusic

Which probably also has a lot to do with the 30,000 "differences" as well.

the 30,000 differences were based on about a hundred greek manuscripts that a single person had possession of.