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  #51  
Old 05-10-2012, 07:40 AM
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I did a lot of research about the Pruina Mills, Inc.-PMI -feed yesterday and picked up a bag of the Exclusive Chicken and Rice and I'm going to give it a try.
Here's want I found out on line and it goes along exactly what the dealer told me. My supplier's family business has been selling Pruina products for over 25 years. Initially, Purina feeds were only sold thru authorized dealers and not thru "chain stores". Divisions of the company were sold off and Land O' Lakes bought the PMI division animal food division and Nestle bought out the Pet food division. PMI still uses the old dealer system, while the Nestle Division who sells the "name brand" products sells to all major retailers.
Here's what I found out on line:
"Purina traces its roots back to 1894, when founder William H. Danforth began producing feed for various farm animals under the name Purina Mills. The predominant brand for each animal was generally referred to as “Chow”; hence there was “Purina Horse Chow”, “Purina Dog Chow”, “Purina Cat Chow”, “Purina Rabbit Chow”, “Purina Pig Chow”, and even “Purina Monkey Chow”. Later, in 1902, he merged with university professor Webster Edgerly, founder of Ralstonism, who was at the time producing breakfast cereals, to form the “Ralston-Purina Company”.[1]

Purina Mills, Inc., the U.S. animal feed business that was sold by Ralston Purina Company in 1986, was purchased by Koch Industries in 1998, but a U.S. bankruptcy court cancelled out all equity held by Koch to maintain the company’s viability. Purina Mills LLC is now owned by Land O’ Lakes. Purina pet food is now made and marketed by a division of Nestlé (Nestlé Purina PetCare), which is still headquartered in St. Louis.

Purina Mills licenses the Purina and Chow Brands from the owner of the trademarks, Nestlé Purina PetCare Company, for the United States and its territories (including Puerto Rico)."

The Exclusive brand that PMI sells has ingredients very similar to Pro Plan Selects, but at a definite savings in price. From what I can tell,(and from what the dealer told me) the main reason in price savings is in the advertising cost Nestle incurs vs. the cost PMI incurs. I paid $38.00 for a 35 lb. bag. The dealer has a program where the 8th bag you buy is free, so that drops the cost down to $33.25 per bag.
With almost the same ingredients as the Pro Plan Selects (not Pro Plan but the product a notch above Pro Plan) and at almost half the cost...I'm going to give it a try.
Steve
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  #52  
Old 05-10-2012, 07:57 AM
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Wow! Steve, you are good!!

My food, Pro Plan Performance is from the Nestle end and is only sold in high end retail such as Petsmart, Petsense, et al, and feed stores that carry it. It won't ever be found in grocers...

The PMI sounds good too... does it still have the Purina or Pro Plan name? Is it hard to find? Note: name is not as important as consistent quality, so this is a curiosity, not an interest in name brand.

Julia


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Originally Posted by StevePickard View Post
I did a lot of research about the Pruina Mills, Inc.-PMI -feed yesterday and picked up a bag of the Exclusive Chicken and Rice and I'm going to give it a try.
Here's want I found out on line and it goes along exactly what the dealer told me. My supplier's family business has been selling Pruina products for over 25 years. Initially, Purina feeds were only sold thru authorized dealers and not thru "chain stores". Divisions of the company were sold off and Land O' Lakes bought the PMI division animal food division and Nestle bought out the Pet food division. PMI still uses the old dealer system, while the Nestle Division who sells the "name brand" products sells to all major retailers.
Here's what I found out on line:
"Purina traces its roots back to 1894, when founder William H. Danforth began producing feed for various farm animals under the name Purina Mills. The predominant brand for each animal was generally referred to as “Chow”; hence there was “Purina Horse Chow”, “Purina Dog Chow”, “Purina Cat Chow”, “Purina Rabbit Chow”, “Purina Pig Chow”, and even “Purina Monkey Chow”. Later, in 1902, he merged with university professor Webster Edgerly, founder of Ralstonism, who was at the time producing breakfast cereals, to form the “Ralston-Purina Company”.[1]

Purina Mills, Inc., the U.S. animal feed business that was sold by Ralston Purina Company in 1986, was purchased by Koch Industries in 1998, but a U.S. bankruptcy court cancelled out all equity held by Koch to maintain the company’s viability. Purina Mills LLC is now owned by Land O’ Lakes. Purina pet food is now made and marketed by a division of Nestlé (Nestlé Purina PetCare), which is still headquartered in St. Louis.

Purina Mills licenses the Purina and Chow Brands from the owner of the trademarks, Nestlé Purina PetCare Company, for the United States and its territories (including Puerto Rico)."

The Exclusive brand that PMI sells has ingredients very similar to Pro Plan Selects, but at a definite savings in price. From what I can tell,(and from what the dealer told me) the main reason in price savings is in the advertising cost Nestle incurs vs. the cost PMI incurs. I paid $38.00 for a 35 lb. bag. The dealer has a program where the 8th bag you buy is free, so that drops the cost down to $33.25 per bag.
With almost the same ingredients as the Pro Plan Selects (not Pro Plan but the product a notch above Pro Plan) and at almost half the cost...I'm going to give it a try.
Steve
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  #53  
Old 05-10-2012, 06:31 PM
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Steve,
That is really interesting...The ingrediants are really attractive,the price is great!!...I looked it up and the nearest dealer is 21mi from here and he doesn't carry the "PMI Exclusive" but could order it....he only handles the "PMI Red Flannel Nutrition" which is extremely similar to Pro Plan(not select , but the reg PP)...The Red Flannel is $28/35lb....He said he could order the 'Exclusive' but not enough people want it, to stock it....Thanks for the info!!!
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Old 05-10-2012, 08:43 PM
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Julia,
It goes under PMI name which is Purina Mills, Inc. Here's a link to their site dealer site:
http://www.exclusivepetfood.com/Deal...r/default.aspx
And their home page link:
http://www.exclusivepetfood.com/default.aspx

I'm giving it a try.
Steve
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  #55  
Old 05-11-2012, 11:22 AM
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Thanks Steve.... now I have something else to work thru

Julia
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  #56  
Old 05-11-2012, 06:58 PM
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Default Hey Julia...Thanks Steve

Well , I found a source for the "Exclusive" PMI food about 35min from here, down in the panhandle of Fl...One thing I like about the PMI , is they have a "lamb and rice"formula , which my pups like...22p/12f..which I like for the offseason...no corn,soy or wheat...$35/35lb bag for Holistic...cheaper than 4health!...without saying ,but I will , cheaper than Blue...basically the same minerals,omega's,vitamins,oil's etc...This is "REAL good"......

And Julia...I KNOW how much you love feeding "Pro Plan Performance year round"....the ingrediants are almost identical,not totally holistic, maybe more minerals tho than PP..BUT...Here's the kicker...$36/35lb and the rebate the same...8bags/9th free!...they issue a card to keep up with it!..Not going to find it at the big retailers...only mom/pop feed stores..ie;"locally owned"...my favorite kind!....Going to get mine tommorrow to try......Come on Bella/Colt..you just gotta love it!
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Old 05-11-2012, 08:44 PM
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Sam-
Just from looks, you cannot tell it from the Diamond feed....exactly same shape and color...and actually almost the same ingredients. I don't think your pups will even know you've switched...
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Old 05-12-2012, 09:39 AM
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Here's something to think about as well. Two years ago my trainer was looking to replace his Pro Plan Performance because he couldn't get an hour out of most of his trial dogs during the heat. When he was looking at different foods he switched to Joy brand food. Joy is not considered a high end food and many of their ingredients are considered not as high quality as other foods. I was a little skeptical so I called Joy directly and talked to them. They were great and spoke with me for 20-30 minutes. The guy I talked to had some REALLY, REALLY good points. He talked about how regulations force food company's to qualify products like chicken as chicken, vs chicken meal. Chicken would be just chicken meat, where "meal" could be any part of the chicken including feathers and such. Here is where the issue comes into play though. Many parts of the chicken are very good for dogs and they can get a LOT of nutrition from it. I cant remember the other parts he stated but I believe it was things such as gizzards, hearts, and other things like that. He said that hearts, gizzards, and other parts are very often better for the dog then just the meat alone, and have a higher protein value. Joy included those parts as their number one ingredient. But because of the way they have to list their ingredients, and the fact that "meal" can include anything from hearts to feathers, it makes the food look worse from a marketing perspective, since the Joy foods #1 ingredient was chicken "meal". However, food company's aren't required to list what products are, or are not included in their "meal" formula. So without knowing, all "meals" are grouped into 1 category, even though their can be a HUGE difference between what makes up two different products "meal" formulas. He said that Joy's #1 ingredient "chicken meal" was better then PP's "chicken" because it included those other high nutrition ingredients. He was VERY confident that Joy's performance food was better then PP's in almost every aspect, even though from just looking at the label, it looks like PP's was much better. After seing my dog after the transition from PP to Joy, I have to admit he was right, at least with my dog. She put on weight, her coat looked better, and she ran much better as well. Not bad considering Joy was half the price as PP.

The good thing is that their are very high quality foods on the market that are not rediculously priced. The bad news is unless you call every single manufacture and ask exactly what makes up their different formulas, there really is no way of knowing exactly what you are feeding your dog. The bigger company's like Purina and Eukanuba, are well known and have great marketing departments. Smaller companys like Joy have to rely on word of mouth. I believe Joy is a very small company that doesn't make a lot of food. They are a US company and all the food is made here in the US. The problem is because they are small, they have no discount programs for professional trainers, and it can be very hard for trainers who travel to get pallets of food delievered anywhere in the country like you can with the bigger companys. Because of that, my trainer eventually switched to Eukanuba because they had discount programs in place, and my trainer doesn't run out of food because Eukanuba will darn near deliver a pallet to the trial grounds. The sad thing is I would really like to support a small company such as Joy because they seem very honest, but its tough to find their food in stores because they are small and not very well known. At the end of the day, all we have to really go on is what we "think" is a good food. Just because a food says Pro Plan or Eukanuba Performance and costs $40 a bag because their first ingredient is chicken, salmon, or something else, doesn't mean the food is actually any better then a $25 bag of food with the first ingredient of "chicken meal".
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Old 05-12-2012, 09:48 AM
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JJ, there is also the consistency of a well known feed. I think Black Gold had some problems with consistency in the long run.

I would rather rely on Chicken, or Lamb, etc. on the label than trust a man with an agenda to sell his feed tell me that they don't use feathers, just because I have learned over time that to be cautious.

I thought about and called Black Gold back during the big hype here over that feed. They were also very helpful and answered all my questions, but the feed that matched what I wanted was the same cost as my PPP.

I truly hope your trainer is correct and that he has chosen well for the dogs That's the main thing anyhow, but I just don't trust "meal" because it can contain anything on that chicken

And, keep in mind that AAFCO has 2 standards that we should all know about.

First: Dog Food is formulated to meet the nutritional levels established by the AAFCO Dog Food Nutrient Profiles for All Life Stages.

Second and best: Animal feeding tests using Association of American Feed Control Officials (AAFCO) procedures substantiate that Pro Plan Performance Formula provides complete and balanced nutrition for all life stages of dogs.

This is helpful and I got it back when the Science Diet folks wanted me to feed theirs, so I did lots of comparisons and called Pro Plan folks as well as spending lots of time with Science Diet reps



Julia
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Last edited by JuliaH; 05-12-2012 at 10:11 AM.
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Old 05-12-2012, 10:22 AM
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I agree Julia, its always a shot in the dark, and we are never going to know for sure. What we really have to go on is the performance in the field. My dog has done much better, and looks much better with the Joy, and now the Eukanuba. I know a lot of people love their PP, but my trainer couldn't get an hour out of his dogs when it was hot out. Two weeks ago my dog ran an hour championship when it was 91 degrees. In the brit world, our fall championships begin in the prairies in September with temps still reaching the mid 90's. I have heard many people say their dogs run "hot" with the PP. I can attest to that with my dog. With the PP she was too skinny and her ribs were showing too much IMO. Now she looks great, and she jumped from 31lbs to 33lbs and her muscle definition really improved. During 30 minutes trials or when it cools down, I don't think it matters nearly as much. But when you start talking 1 hour trials in 80+ degree temps, food can really make a big difference. And again, this is what we saw with my brittany and what the trainer saw with his string of dogs. Other results can obviously vary. I know there are many people who switch off the PP in the heat and go with a lower protein formula.
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Old 05-12-2012, 10:28 AM
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Yes, the higher protein can be an issue... I regulate that to some degree with how much I give them, but sometimes the 26/18 formula just does better for some 30% protein is hot for sure!

Looks like some more study time, cuz that difference is important.

Julia
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Old 05-12-2012, 10:36 AM
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Just talked to my trainer. He switches to 28/18 during the summer. He was switching to 26/18 with Purina and it wasn't working. He had no problems with PP when it was cold, and the 26/18 wasnt enough when it was warm. Eukanuba has two "Performance" formulas, 30/20 and 28/18. It works better for him. Again, not sure PP or Eukanuba is better then the other, but for us, the Eukanuba seems to be better.
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Old 05-12-2012, 11:58 AM
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Julia....I just checked the "Exclusive" PMI Lamb/Rice formula bag of food I picked up...And it has the AAFCO statement of approved "maintenance for adult dogs" which is what i want for the off-season...Don't know about thier "Performance" yet...But will check that...Thanks for the "tidbit' of info from AAFCO...another "comfort endorsement" from the pro's!
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Old 05-15-2012, 12:00 AM
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Sam,
I have been using Pro Plan Lamb and Rice for many, many years and can tell you it has out performed all other feed I have tried. Even used Bill Jack for a while and always come back to Purina. My dogs live 15-18 years old and have a great quaility of life till the end. I hunt many dogs till they are 16 for many hours a day and they still hold up well. Sams Club has a 44 lb. bag for 35 dollars. So you get 10 lbs free compared to other stores and you get the extra points from the weight circles. Of all the plantations I work on down here, 90% use Purina and it sure is not because of the price. They can afford to feed anything they want to. Eric from Eucanuba came to a field day this last year at Pineland Plantation and gave a very long talk about dog nutrition. When he was finished he asked if anyone had any questions and not a person even asked one question. Of course they just about all had on Purina jackets. When these guys put their reputation on the line its with Purina powering their dogs.
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Old 05-15-2012, 07:08 AM
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Coveyrise-
That's as good of an endorsement for a particular brand of dog food anyone could ask for! My main objective in finding a good food for my dogs are to keep them healthy and have a long life. It sounds like Purina has helped your dogs do just that.
Steve
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Old 05-15-2012, 02:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StevePickard View Post
Coveyrise-
That's as good of an endorsement for a particular brand of dog food anyone could ask for! My main objective in finding a good food for my dogs are to keep them healthy and have a long life. It sounds like Purina has helped your dogs do just that.
Steve
Steve I agree, Thanks Coveyrise. Heading to Sam's club after work.

SJ
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Old 05-16-2012, 09:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StevePickard View Post
Coveyrise-
That's as good of an endorsement for a particular brand of dog food anyone could ask for! My main objective in finding a good food for my dogs are to keep them healthy and have a long life. It sounds like Purina has helped your dogs do just that.
Steve
Steve,

I have dogs that have been on this feed for all their life except for the first year[fed pro plan puppy]and are now 12 years old and have never been to a vets office. Their coats are nice and shiny and they just never get sick. Never had cancer or skin problems. I think your dogs will like it.
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