Go Back   Georgia Outdoor News Forum > Deer and Small Game Hunting and Trail Cams > Deer Hunting

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #151  
Old 05-09-2012, 01:45 PM
HucK Finn's Avatar
HucK Finn HucK Finn is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Gray, GA
iTrader: (0) Check/Add Feedback
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RipperIII View Post
Take this for what it's worth,...this was my 4th deer season, I saw more bucks than does by over a 2-1 ratio...not complaining, saw at least 3 different shooter bucks but circumstances prevented me from taking a shot.

The thought did cross my mind as to the apparent lack of doe sightings,...don't know if I should be concerned or not.

We hunt 1240 acres in Butts co.
We Normally take 1-2 bucks, and about 6 doe each year.
We took 3 bucks and 4 doe this year.

Personally, I did not take a single deer here in Ga.

I saw some great action, but not near the numbers.
With ratios like that, we would we better off to allow people to kill more bucks than does. I like to let em grow so I never thought I would be saying this, but Id rather see the doe tags lowered and the "any-sized" buck tags increased.
We all know this but; you take several bucks out of a heard and other buck will pick up the slack, a doe lost is a fawn lost...
__________________
I hear the cliche"Were you raised in a barn"? when a door is left opened, someone that spent their childhood around barns, actually become very acute at NOT leaving things open.
Reply With Quote
  #152  
Old 05-09-2012, 01:47 PM
Nicodemus's Avatar
Nicodemus Nicodemus is offline
Retired Administrator
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: God`s Country
iTrader: (10) Check/Add Feedback
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JB0704 View Post
And I believe you, and I also believe there are many others like you who regulate themselves. This board is full of good folks who have the best interest of the deer herd in mind. We just disagree on what that involves.




I tried to be very clear ealier in this thread that I was not questioning anybody's intentions or education. I believe the folks at WRD have good intentions and know TONS more than I do about this stuff. I guess the best way to put it is that I do not trust hunters to "do the right thing" as much as they do. This could be because I was raised in a hunting environment where game law violations were common, deer were shot just because they were deer, and folks were not embarassed to admit to killing over their limit (of bucks and does back then). I knew several road hunters, and one fella who would shoot them under a street light. So, for me at least, it is difficult to accept the goodness of men as the primary regulator of our deer herd.

My hunting experience began in the late 80's. So my perspective is based on that time frame. In those 20+ years, I would say the last 5+ have been the worst from a numbers perspective. That's all. Just my input.

Thanks for your perspective. I do appreciate getting insight from those who have been around a lot longer than me, whether I agree or not.


Back when we had a 2 week season and the limit was 1 buck only, there were some who broke the law. When the limit was changed to 1 buck and on designated doe days you could kill 1 doe, people broke the law. When it went to 2 bucks and also 1 doe on doe days, people broke the law. When it went to 2 bucks and 3 does on doe days, people still broke the law. You get my point?

It doesn`t matter what you do, or how you set up a taggin` system, or if there are 5 million deer in this state, or there are only 5, people are still gonna be people, and some are gonna do as the see fit and the only way to stop that is to either assign each one his own personal warden to watch his every move, or put him in the electric chair when he is caught. Outlaws will be outlaws. No need to give yourself ulcers worryin` about things beyond your control. It won`t help a bit.
Reply With Quote
  #153  
Old 05-09-2012, 02:13 PM
RipperIII's Avatar
RipperIII RipperIII is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Atlanta
iTrader: (0) Check/Add Feedback
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by HucK Finn View Post
With ratios like that, we would we better off to allow people to kill more bucks than does. I like to let em grow so I never thought I would be saying this, but Id rather see the doe tags lowered and the "any-sized" buck tags increased.
We all know this but; you take several bucks out of a heard and other buck will pick up the slack, a doe lost is a fawn lost...

I didn't mean to imply that this was an accurate ratio, but this was my observation.
Reply With Quote
  #154  
Old 05-09-2012, 03:45 PM
HucK Finn's Avatar
HucK Finn HucK Finn is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Gray, GA
iTrader: (0) Check/Add Feedback
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RipperIII View Post
I didn't mean to imply that this was an accurate ratio, but this was my observation.
Ripper, I agree with your ratio. I have noticed the same thing as well as other that I talk to.
__________________
I hear the cliche"Were you raised in a barn"? when a door is left opened, someone that spent their childhood around barns, actually become very acute at NOT leaving things open.
Reply With Quote
  #155  
Old 05-09-2012, 06:51 PM
WishboneW's Avatar
WishboneW WishboneW is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Douglasville
iTrader: (2) Check/Add Feedback
Default Biologist

Quote:
Originally Posted by C.Killmaster View Post
That's why the state provides biologists, free of charge, to assist you with setting harvest goals for your land.
I would love some assistance with this. Where can I get some additional info on this?
Reply With Quote
  #156  
Old 05-10-2012, 07:41 AM
C.Killmaster C.Killmaster is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Forsyth, GA
iTrader: (0) Check/Add Feedback
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by WishboneW View Post
I would love some assistance with this. Where can I get some additional info on this?
In the front of the hunting regulations there's a list of phone numbers for regional game management offices. Find the appropriate office for the county your hunting property is located in and call and ask to speak with the biologist for that county. Just tell them you would like deer management assistance and would like to set up an appointment for a site visit to your hunting land. The biologist can set you up on a data collection program so they have the information they need to help you determine harvest goals each year. If you do your part and collect the data, they can give you a great deal of information about what's going on with your property and give you specific harvest recommendations every year based on what you would like to accomplish.
__________________
Opinions expressed on this forum by the author may not reflect those of the author's employer or any other entity the author may be affiliated with.
Reply With Quote
  #157  
Old 05-10-2012, 08:12 AM
WishboneW's Avatar
WishboneW WishboneW is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Douglasville
iTrader: (2) Check/Add Feedback
Default Biologist assistance

Thanks for the direction!

This will be a good benefit for the land owner and our club.
Reply With Quote
  #158  
Old 05-10-2012, 11:53 AM
NG ALUM NG ALUM is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Dublin
iTrader: (0) Check/Add Feedback
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JB0704 View Post
And I believe you, and I also believe there are many others like you who regulate themselves. This board is full of good folks who have the best interest of the deer herd in mind. We just disagree on what that involves.




I tried to be very clear ealier in this thread that I was not questioning anybody's intentions or education. I believe the folks at WRD have good intentions and know TONS more than I do about this stuff. I guess the best way to put it is that I do not trust hunters to "do the right thing" as much as they do. This could be because I was raised in a hunting environment where game law violations were common, deer were shot just because they were deer, and folks were not embarassed to admit to killing over their limit (of bucks and does back then). I knew several road hunters, and one fella who would shoot them under a street light. So, for me at least, it is difficult to accept the goodness of men as the primary regulator of our deer herd.

My hunting experience began in the late 80's. So my perspective is based on that time frame. In those 20+ years, I would say the last 5+ have been the worst from a numbers perspective. That's all. Just my input.

Thanks for your perspective. I do appreciate getting insight from those who have been around a lot longer than me, whether I agree or not.
Sorry to chime in so late but one thing I would like to express that I think may help you understand this ...

Statictics is in fact the very best way to manage a deer herd. When using a computer model based off of a properly formed statistical equation it accounts for every variable known to man. i.e. number of poached deer, number of deer lost by predation, number of deer lost to natural causes, number of deer lost to human encroachment, etc..This information is not gathered from each hunter but rather a sample size (x) from hunters in many different regions of the state and the combination of many small sample sizes gives a very accurate look into the larger picture. By taking sample sizes from different areas you are also taking into accout for other variables without realizing it such as human population of those areas, location specific causes. etc.

This in return gives DNR a very accurate reading of the State of Georgia as a whole. They do not try and manage it county by county as that is not applicable for this need.

If you do live in an area with a high concerntration of local location specific causes of population decimation then that is unfortunate for you. However if you travel an hour up the road you may find more deer than you can imagine.

The management of the overall Georgia deer herd is the goal of Georgia's DNR not of your hunting lease. If people around you take the limit each year it could easily lower your local deer herd. However that limit is based on a state wide target size herd. It takes people killing the full limit and lowering local populations, meanwhile otheres are not shooting any leaving dense populations in some areas to get DNR to it's overall goal of (x) population. I'm sorry you hunt an area that maintians a lower population due to the legal limits being fulfilled but it has to happen somewhere.

The statistical equation is as follows when using multiple variables if you would like to play around with it some, if I remember it correctly....

y/z= B +B x +B x^2+B x^3...etc...+n
0 1 2 3
It would be much more detailed than that for such a matter but thats the basic.

Also,
like you I have been hunting since the 80's and have seen a great increase in deer everyyear since then in south GA.
Reply With Quote
  #159  
Old 05-10-2012, 01:00 PM
NG ALUM NG ALUM is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Dublin
iTrader: (0) Check/Add Feedback
Default

the 0123 under the equation should be located under the "B" creating a "base" the keyboard won't put them in the right spot...
Reply With Quote
  #160  
Old 05-10-2012, 01:16 PM
JB0704's Avatar
JB0704 JB0704 is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Ga.
iTrader: (0) Check/Add Feedback
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by NG ALUM View Post
Also,
like you I have been hunting since the 80's and have seen a great increase in deer everyyear since then in south GA.
Thanks for the stats info. I think there is a line here between those who have plenty of deer and those who don't. The only thing that is frustrating is the idea that the "have nots" are not good hunters, have not been responsible hunters, or have little perspective. Across this argument is a wide range of experience, ability, and location. Perhaps there is logic to be found in both? Certainly facts can be used in both directions.

As far as the approach the state takes to manage on a state wide level, not a local level, I do believe other states handle it in a much more local way, which seems to work out fine for them as well (that is just based on what I hear, I am sure there are two sides to that as well).

The only thing I can't get beyond is the responsibility given to hunters in this arrangement to "do the right thing," as well as the disregard for the small lease holder who is more vulnerable to irresponsible hunters than the large lease holder, who has a larger plot of land to manage. Here is an example:

I could have a 100 acre lease next to 3 other 100 acre leases with good intentions. 400 acres of well managed land there. But if any of these 4 leases are next to some goober on another 100 acre lease who shoots every deer that walks by, then all 5 leases lose. That is 500 acres, and if I remember the numbers correctly, less than 8 does should be taken to maintain the herd. Lets say the first 4 shoot one doe a piece, and the fifth guy shoots 5 (plenty of folks out there shoot 5 does every year, just using realistic numbers), well, the deer herd is going downhill. It's hard enough for folks to manage their own lease let alone everybody else's.

Aside from those two issues, I agree on all other points.
__________________
" Dodgeball is a sport of violence, exclusion, and degradation" - Patches O'Houlihan
Reply With Quote
  #161  
Old 05-10-2012, 02:25 PM
NG ALUM NG ALUM is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Dublin
iTrader: (0) Check/Add Feedback
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JB0704 View Post
Thanks for the stats info. I think there is a line here between those who have plenty of deer and those who don't. The only thing that is frustrating is the idea that the "have nots" are not good hunters, have not been responsible hunters, or have little perspective. Across this argument is a wide range of experience, ability, and location. Perhaps there is logic to be found in both? Certainly facts can be used in both directions.

As far as the approach the state takes to manage on a state wide level, not a local level, I do believe other states handle it in a much more local way, which seems to work out fine for them as well (that is just based on what I hear, I am sure there are two sides to that as well).

The only thing I can't get beyond is the responsibility given to hunters in this arrangement to "do the right thing," as well as the disregard for the small lease holder who is more vulnerable to irresponsible hunters than the large lease holder, who has a larger plot of land to manage. Here is an example:

I could have a 100 acre lease next to 3 other 100 acre leases with good intentions. 400 acres of well managed land there. But if any of these 4 leases are next to some goober on another 100 acre lease who shoots every deer that walks by, then all 5 leases lose. That is 500 acres, and if I remember the numbers correctly, less than 8 does should be taken to maintain the herd. Lets say the first 4 shoot one doe a piece, and the fifth guy shoots 5 (plenty of folks out there shoot 5 does every year, just using realistic numbers), well, the deer herd is going downhill. It's hard enough for folks to manage their own lease let alone everybody else's.

Aside from those two issues, I agree on all other points
.


Ok to address these issues...The state doesn't expect any hunter to do the right thing. They actually know some people WILL do the wrong thing, while others do the right thing, while others do nothing. If they didn't expect people to do wrong the whole plan would fail. Nobody says you don't know what your doing. Your problem is simple like you said. "the guy on the hundred acres next to you killed to dang many deer for the local population to handle" Thats unfortunate for you but has got to happen somewhere.It's all accounted for. I'll show you in a very simple.

i am making up the following numbers for simplicity!

The state of GA has 3,000 acres statewide. of that 900 is developed city property. this leaves 2,100 of suitable forested or agricultural land. based on historical evidence we know that with ga soil type and natural food source deer survive best at roughly 15 head per acre. this gives us a desirable population of 15 * 2,100= 31,500 deer to live in georgia. We also know that deer reproduce at a rate of 3,500 per year so in one year the 31,500 turns into 35,000. well that is a problem cause now they are over populated so here is the solution.

There are 1,000 hunters in georgia and we need them to kill 3,500 deer so thats means each hunter gets to kill 3.5 right?

WRONG! we also know based on past warden tickets and local surveys that 50% (500)of hunters only killed 1 deer per person last year just because they trophy hunted while the other 50% (500) hunters killed six because they have no reguard of the law! oh no!!

So we set the limit at six, because we know 50% will only shoot 1 totaling 500 deer while the other 50% will shoot 6 totaling 3,000. This puts our total kill at 3,500 which was the target number in the first place and gives Georgia a stable deer population again.

Im sorry you live next to the guy that shoots 6 deer ever year but thats how it's gotta be.

I completely made up this very simple scenerio and this in in no way correct. It's just a very simple comparason to how VERY ELEMENTARY statistics help with our game management...

Last edited by NG ALUM; 05-10-2012 at 02:55 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #162  
Old 05-10-2012, 02:49 PM
BornToHuntAndFish's Avatar
BornToHuntAndFish BornToHuntAndFish is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Hopefully Somewhere in the Great Outdoors
iTrader: (0) Check/Add Feedback
Talking

Quote:
Originally Posted by NG ALUM View Post
that last sentece was supposed to not be there...
Click on edit in your post & remove it if you want to.

__________________
Family, Friends, & Celebrating the Outdoors is some of Life's Best Medicine.
Good Opportunities Come to Those Who are Prepared for Them.
Reply With Quote
  #163  
Old 05-10-2012, 02:50 PM
JB0704's Avatar
JB0704 JB0704 is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Ga.
iTrader: (0) Check/Add Feedback
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by NG ALUM View Post
[/color]

Ok to address these issues...The state doesn't expect any hunter to do the right thing. They actually know some people WILL do the wrong thing, while others do the right thing, while others do nothing. If they didn't expect people to do wrong the whole plan would fail. Nobody says you don't know what your doing. Your problem is simple like you said. "the guy on the hundred acres next to you killed to dang many deer for the local population to handle" Thats unfortunate for you but has got to happen somewhere.It's all accounted for. I'll show you in a very simple.

i am making up the following numbers for simplicity!

The state of GA has 3,000 acres statewide. of that 900 is developed city property. this leaves 2,100 of suitable forested or agricultural land. based on historical evidence we know that with ga soil type and natural food source deer survive best at roughly 15 head per acre. this gives us a desirable population of 15 * 2,100= 31,500 deer to live in georgia. We also know that deer reproduce at a rate of 3,500 per year so in one year the 31,500 turns into 35,000. well that is a problem cause now they are over populated so here is the solution.

There are 1,000 hunters in georgia and we need them to kill 3,500 deer so thats means each hunter gets to kill 3.5 right?

WRONG! we also know based on past warden tickets and local surveys that 50% (500)of hunters only killed 1 deer per person last year just because they trophy hunted while the other 50% (500) hunters killed six because they have no reguard of the law! oh no!!

So we set the limit at six, because we know 50% will only shoot 1 totaling 500 deer while the other 50% will shoot 6 totaling 3,000. This puts our total kill at 3,500 which was the target number in the first place and gives Georgia a stable deer population again.

Im sorry you live next to the guy that shoots 6 deer ever year but thats how it's gotta be.

I completely made up this very simple scenerio and this in in no way correct. It's just a very simple comparason to how VERY ELEMENTARY statistics help with our game management...or anything else thats needs help for that matter.

So you make the limit
That makes a little more sense. I do remember reading one of the WRD fellas on here saying that the responsibility is in the hunter's hands. Looking at the "big picture" statistically makes it a bit easier to comprehend. Thanks for taking the time to type all that out. I am looking into new leases, and hopefully I will find the "good neighbors," have gotten some pretty good leads recently. I still think the same harvest goals could be accomplished in a more equitable way, but it currently is what it is, and I'm still gonna hunt whether I'm seeing 'em or not.
__________________
" Dodgeball is a sport of violence, exclusion, and degradation" - Patches O'Houlihan
Reply With Quote
  #164  
Old 05-10-2012, 02:59 PM
NG ALUM NG ALUM is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Dublin
iTrader: (0) Check/Add Feedback
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JB0704 View Post
That makes a little more sense. I do remember reading one of the WRD fellas on here saying that the responsibility is in the hunter's hands. Looking at the "big picture" statistically makes it a bit easier to comprehend. Thanks for taking the time to type all that out. I am looking into new leases, and hopefully I will find the "good neighbors," have gotten some pretty good leads recently. I still think the same harvest goals could be accomplished in a more equitable way, but it currently is what it is, and I'm still gonna hunt whether I'm seeing 'em or not.
glad i could help...just don't quote me, im definately no statistician
Reply With Quote
  #165  
Old 05-10-2012, 03:04 PM
NG ALUM NG ALUM is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Dublin
iTrader: (0) Check/Add Feedback
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BornToHuntAndFish View Post
Click on edit in your post & remove it if you want to.

Reply With Quote
  #166  
Old 05-10-2012, 04:19 PM
elfiii's Avatar
elfiii elfiii is offline
Admin
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: The country formerly known as America
iTrader: (0) Check/Add Feedback
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JB0704 View Post
That makes a little more sense. I do remember reading one of the WRD fellas on here saying that the responsibility is in the hunter's hands.
They spell it all out on page 26 of the popular guide - "Deer Harvest Guidelines".

The 4th paragraph sez:

Quote:
It is the responsibility of hunters, clubs and landowners to establish objectives to manage deer on the property they own, lease, or hunt. Georgia deer hunters, landowners and hunting clubs have differing management objectives. There is no statewide season and bag limit scenario that will satisfy these differing objectives. As such, Georgia's current statewide regulations provide a framework for landowners and hunting clubs to use when establishing a harvest regime for their specific property(ies). This statewide framework is not site-specific and should never be viewed as such. However, statewide regulations do provide landowners and hunting clubs great flexibility to meet their deer management objectives.
Either you respect the wisdom contained therein and apply it or you don't.
__________________
Burn It Down!
Reply With Quote
  #167  
Old 05-10-2012, 04:54 PM
bowanna's Avatar
bowanna bowanna is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Henry co. GA.
iTrader: (0) Check/Add Feedback
Default

Great post elfiii. I agree completely too.
Lowering the harvest limit enough to impact the heard state wide is not the way to do it. It takes a management tool out of the hands of the people who need it most. It forces them to manage their heard according to your area. You need to get with the clubs and land owners to come up with a plan to fit your specific area. If their not seeing deer then they should be more than willing to listen. If their not having a problem then its probably your property.
__________________
Bow - A weapon that uses elasticity to propel arrows. Bwana - Swahili, our father, master, boss. >>-Bowanna-> Master bow hunter.
Reply With Quote
  #168  
Old 05-10-2012, 08:48 PM
JB0704's Avatar
JB0704 JB0704 is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Ga.
iTrader: (0) Check/Add Feedback
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by elfiii View Post
They spell it all out on page 26 of the popular guide - "Deer Harvest Guidelines".

The 4th paragraph sez:



Either you respect the wisdom contained therein and apply it or you don't.
In which case I was correct in stating that the current regs rely on hunters. That was my only point there. Getting with other landowners and clubs only works to the extent they are willing to cooperate. Otherwise, you are stuck like me, looking for another lease. Elfiii, you say it is a problem of controlling other people, I would agree.

I am very glad there are so many fine folks on here who have quality hunting property. I know this is all through hard work, experience, wisdom, and some good luck with neighbors. I wish you all continued success. Further, I would like to say thanks to all the good, highly educated, folks at WRD for their efforts.

But, I remain convinced that the current regs expose too many people not in your shoes to risk of over hunting. There are MANY tools which could be used to manage a deer herd which do not expose local populations to the risk the current regs do.....here are a few:

1. Take a kid hunting day
2. Take an orphan hunting day
3. Take your preacher hunting day
4. "Hey guys, let's all kill a doe!" day
5. Take a wounded warrior hunting day
6. Stop killing coyotes for a year
7. Hit gas instead of brake when deer crosses
8. Shoot does instead of bucks for a year
9. "Free beer for the guy who kills the most does today!" day
10. A well worded ad on GON forum requesting help with deer problem
11. Crop depredation permits
12. Take a local LEO hunting day
13. Shoot 2 does before you can kill a buck
14. Teach wife how to hunt
15. Teach mother-in-law how to hunt
16. "WE need more members to help with all these does!"
17. "Doe only" memberships in your club
18. "LEt's see if I can get two with one shot" day
19. Make "doe days" mean "doe only" days, and make participation mandatory for all members
20. Put a bounty on does in your club / lease

.......there are many, many TOOLS available whether the regs allow 12 or 3. They all involve a little sacrifice. Problem is, nobody wants to deal with it themselves, they just tell us, apparently ungrateful and unable hunters, how we have failed to control other people, or we ride 4-wheelers too much (I don't even own one). Problem with current regs is it legalizes unethical practice and relies on the goodness of others and in the process, exposes lots of folks to the unethical practice of folks we don't even trust to stay on their side of the property line (thus the $0.89 no trespassing signs every 30 feet).

I want to add that even though I disagree with many of y'all, I do understand that we all have opinions based on personal experience, and I believe you are all sincere in your convictions with this point.
__________________
" Dodgeball is a sport of violence, exclusion, and degradation" - Patches O'Houlihan

Last edited by JB0704; 05-10-2012 at 10:22 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #169  
Old 05-10-2012, 09:01 PM
ridgestalker's Avatar
ridgestalker ridgestalker is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: In The Woods
iTrader: (1) Check/Add Feedback
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JB0704 View Post
In which case I was correct in stating that the current regs rely on hunters. That was my only point there. Getting with other landowners and clubs only works to the extent they are willing to cooperate. Otherwise, you are stuck like me, looking for another lease. Elfiii, you say it is a problem of controlling other people, I would agree.

I am very glad there are so many fine folks on here who have quality hunting property. I know this is all through hard work, experience, wisdom, and some good luck with neighbors. I wish you all continued success. Further, I would like to say thanks to all the good, highly educated, folks at WRD for their efforts.

But, I remain convinced that the current regs expose too many people not in your shoes to risk of over hunting. There are MANY tools which could be used to manage a deer herd which do not expose local populations to the risk the current regs do.....here are a few:

1. Take a kid hunting day
2. Take an orphan hunting day
3. Take your preacher hunting day
4. "Hey guys, let's all kill a doe!" day
5. Take a wounded warrior hunting day
6. Stop killing coyotes for a year
7. Hit gas instead of brake when deer crosses
8. Shoot does instead of bucks for a year
9. "Free beer for the guy who kills the most does today!" day
10. A well worded ad on GON forum requesting help with deer problem
11. Crop depredation permits
12. Take a local LEO hunting day
13. Shoot 2 does before you can kill a buck


.......there are many, many TOOLS available whether the regs allow 12 or 3. Problem with current regs is it legalizes unethical practice and relies on the goodness of others and in the process, exposes fools like me to the unethical practice of folks we don't trust to stay on their side of the property line (thus the $0.89 no trespassing signs every 30 feet).
I agree with most of what you have said so far.Some people will never understand it though.I have good places to hunt an see deer regularly an can take what i want a year an manage to the best of my ability for the size of properties i hunt.That said deer numbers are down in certain areas an as a whole in some county's.I have talked to people all over my county that agree with lower numbers seen since the changes.Not bad hunting but a definite decrease since limits an doe days were extended.Guess us that fill this way should move to south georgia or metro counties were its loaded with deer so we will need doe days all season an 12 tags an can tell people there aint nothing wrong with the deer herd.
__________________

Reply With Quote
  #170  
Old 05-10-2012, 09:06 PM
JB0704's Avatar
JB0704 JB0704 is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Ga.
iTrader: (0) Check/Add Feedback
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ridgestalker View Post
I agree with most of what you have said so far.Some people will never understand it though.I have good places to hunt an see deer regularly an can take what i want a year an manage to the best of my ability for the size of properties i hunt.That said deer numbers are down in certain areas an as a whole in some county's.I have talked to people all over my county that agree with lower numbers seen since the changes.Not bad hunting but a definite decrease since limits an doe days were extended.Guess us that fill this way should move to south georgia or metro counties were its loaded with deer so we will need doe days all season an 12 tags an can tell people there aint nothing wrong with the deer herd.
__________________
" Dodgeball is a sport of violence, exclusion, and degradation" - Patches O'Houlihan
Reply With Quote
  #171  
Old 05-10-2012, 09:41 PM
C.Killmaster C.Killmaster is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Forsyth, GA
iTrader: (0) Check/Add Feedback
Default

Just an FYI, the bag limit is set in law. It states that the limit SHALL be 10 antlerless and 2 antlered, WRD does not have the authority to further limit it to anything less than 12.

Further, based on all the analysis I've done the limit has no real effect on the total deer harvest at this point. If I made the rules and it were my intention to decrease harvest, the ideal tool would be a decrease in doe days.

If you are specifically interested in decreasing the limit I strongly recommend focusing your effort where it will do the most good and contact your legislative representatives, rather than WRD or web forums.
__________________
Opinions expressed on this forum by the author may not reflect those of the author's employer or any other entity the author may be affiliated with.
Reply With Quote
  #172  
Old 05-10-2012, 09:59 PM
JB0704's Avatar
JB0704 JB0704 is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Ga.
iTrader: (0) Check/Add Feedback
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by C.Killmaster View Post
Just an FYI, the bag limit is set in law. It states that the limit SHALL be 10 antlerless and 2 antlered, WRD does not have the authority to further limit it to anything less than 12.
That is good to know. My position is a general "there might be a problem," more than a "the limit is the problem." Stating limits is just my way of summarizing the concept of the current approach.

Quote:
Originally Posted by C.Killmaster View Post
Further, based on all the analysis I've done the limit has no real effect on the total deer harvest at this point. If I made the rules and it were my intention to decrease harvest, the ideal tool would be a decrease in doe days..
I respect your wisdom here. And will from now forward believe that a reduction in doe days might be necessary in targeted areas which have experienced over harvest. And that makes sense, really. Back when there were doe days, even though the people I hunted with were not really "ethical," nobody ever shot a doe except on those days it was legal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by C.Killmaster View Post
If you are specifically interested in decreasing the limit I strongly recommend focusing your effort where it will do the most good and contact your legislative representatives, rather than WRD or web forums.
The link you posted indicated that there was an idea to raise the limit to 15, but WRD did not agree. It was my belief that WRD also exercised a level of influence over the legislation. I don't claim to know more than my experiences. However, I did learn, from your post here, and I believe you, that doe days are a more effective tool than limits. That is a positive from my perspective anway. Also, the other posters explanation of stats helped a lot as well.

I have only been around this forum for a year, so I am a "newbie." It seems to me that this forum represents a free exchange of ideas amongst outdoorsmen in the context of couteous discussion. I attempt to do that.

And thank you for your efforts at maintaining a quality deer herd in this state.
__________________
" Dodgeball is a sport of violence, exclusion, and degradation" - Patches O'Houlihan

Last edited by JB0704; 05-10-2012 at 10:12 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #173  
Old 05-11-2012, 12:18 AM
bowanna's Avatar
bowanna bowanna is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Henry co. GA.
iTrader: (0) Check/Add Feedback
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ridgestalker View Post
I agree with most of what you have said so far.Some people will never understand it though.I have good places to hunt an see deer regularly an can take what i want a year an manage to the best of my ability for the size of properties i hunt.That said deer numbers are down in certain areas an as a whole in some county's.I have talked to people all over my county that agree with lower numbers seen since the changes.Not bad hunting but a definite decrease since limits an doe days were extended.Guess us that fill this way should move to south georgia or metro counties were its loaded with deer so we will need doe days all season an 12 tags an can tell people there aint nothing wrong with the deer herd.::ke:
I didn't say there was nothing wrong with the deer heard. I said, it makes no since to limit statewide when the population problem is area specific.
I sometimes go weeks without seeing deer in my neighborhood spots but I know what the problem is.
Theres no woods. Its hard to beat being able to hunt every day and 1 gal gas round trip.
__________________
Bow - A weapon that uses elasticity to propel arrows. Bwana - Swahili, our father, master, boss. >>-Bowanna-> Master bow hunter.
Reply With Quote
  #174  
Old 05-11-2012, 10:08 AM
Madsnooker's Avatar
Madsnooker Madsnooker is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Winter Haven, Fl
iTrader: (0) Check/Add Feedback
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by NG ALUM View Post
Sorry to chime in so late but one thing I would like to express that I think may help you understand this ...

Statictics is in fact the very best way to manage a deer herd. When using a computer model based off of a properly formed statistical equation it accounts for every variable known to man. i.e. number of poached deer, number of deer lost by predation, number of deer lost to natural causes, number of deer lost to human encroachment, etc..This information is not gathered from each hunter but rather a sample size (x) from hunters in many different regions of the state and the combination of many small sample sizes gives a very accurate look into the larger picture. By taking sample sizes from different areas you are also taking into accout for other variables without realizing it such as human population of those areas, location specific causes. etc.

This in return gives DNR a very accurate reading of the State of Georgia as a whole. They do not try and manage it county by county as that is not applicable for this need.

If you do live in an area with a high concerntration of local location specific causes of population decimation then that is unfortunate for you. However if you travel an hour up the road you may find more deer than you can imagine.

The management of the overall Georgia deer herd is the goal of Georgia's DNR not of your hunting lease. If people around you take the limit each year it could easily lower your local deer herd. However that limit is based on a state wide target size herd. It takes people killing the full limit and lowering local populations, meanwhile otheres are not shooting any leaving dense populations in some areas to get DNR to it's overall goal of (x) population. I'm sorry you hunt an area that maintians a lower population due to the legal limits being fulfilled but it has to happen somewhere.

The statistical equation is as follows when using multiple variables if you would like to play around with it some, if I remember it correctly....

y/z= B +B x +B x^2+B x^3...etc...+n
0 1 2 3
It would be much more detailed than that for such a matter but thats the basic.

Also,
like you I have been hunting since the 80's and have seen a great increase in deer everyyear since then in south GA.
Well said and backs up every point I made in my post concerning what we see happening in Dooly.
__________________
WE ARE ALL FACED WITH A SERIES OF GREAT OPPORTUNITIES, BRILLIANTLY DISGUISED AS IMPOSSIBLE SITUATIONS!!!
Reply With Quote
  #175  
Old 05-11-2012, 10:45 AM
elfiii's Avatar
elfiii elfiii is offline
Admin
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: The country formerly known as America
iTrader: (0) Check/Add Feedback
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JB0704 View Post
In which case I was correct in stating that the current regs rely on hunters. That was my only point there. Getting with other landowners and clubs only works to the extent they are willing to cooperate. Otherwise, you are stuck like me, looking for another lease. Elfiii, you say it is a problem of controlling other people, I would agree.
I know. I was reinforcing what you were saying. The only place I disagree is the problem is not controlling other people. The problem is other people controlling themselves. Until deer clubs start outlawing "brown and down" and start doing responsible stewardship of the resource on their own, what you get will be what you get.

I'm still not in favor of using the law to punish everybody when the reality is only a few are guilty. As Charlie and the article in the popular guide point out, it is impossible for WRD to recommend a "one size fits all" deer management plan and it is impracticable for them to attempt to do one that is localized by county. Do you really want 159 different sets of deer hunting rules for this state? Do you think such a system is both manageable and enforceable?

It appears the only real solution is for deer hunters to "get real" just like the duck hunters and the turkey hunters have had to do.
__________________
Burn It Down!
Reply With Quote
  #176  
Old 05-11-2012, 11:00 AM
JB0704's Avatar
JB0704 JB0704 is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Ga.
iTrader: (0) Check/Add Feedback
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by elfiii View Post
I know. I was reinforcing what you were saying. The only place I disagree is the problem is not controlling other people. The problem is other people controlling themselves. Until deer clubs start outlawing "brown and down" and start doing responsible stewardship of the resource on their own, what you get will be what you get.
I understand what you are saying.

Quote:
Originally Posted by elfiii View Post
I'm still not in favor of using the law to punish everybody when the reality is only a few are guilty. As Charlie and the article in the popular guide point out, it is impossible for WRD to recommend a "one size fits all" deer management plan and it is impracticable for them to attempt to do one that is localized by county. Do you really want 159 different sets of deer hunting rules for this state? Do you think such a system is both manageable and enforceable?.
No, that is not what I want. I am not a biologist, so my opinion is about worthless on the subject, but I personally would like to see a more targeted approach like Pennsylvania's or Marlyland's. I know each system has it's problems, but what they do makes more sense to me because regions are controlled much more specifically.

From what I understand public opinion trends towards simplicity in the regs, so I am probably in the minority on that point.

I don't want to punish everybody, instead, I would like the regs to protect everybody equally. We all agree that in the current system there are the "big losers," who often are not guilty themselves of anything other than leasing next to a group of undiciplined hunters. Sometimes the "losers" are reaping what the sowed. I guess the best way to put it is that, to me at least, there might be a better way.

Quote:
Originally Posted by elfiii View Post
It appears the only real solution is for deer hunters to "get real" just like the duck hunters and the turkey hunters have had to do.
Perhaps your right.
__________________
" Dodgeball is a sport of violence, exclusion, and degradation" - Patches O'Houlihan
Reply With Quote
  #177  
Old 05-11-2012, 03:14 PM
Jeff Phillips's Avatar
Jeff Phillips Jeff Phillips is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Silver City
iTrader: (4) Check/Add Feedback
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by C.Killmaster View Post
Just an FYI, the bag limit is set in law. It states that the limit SHALL be 10 antlerless and 2 antlered, WRD does not have the authority to further limit it to anything less than 12.

Further, based on all the analysis I've done the limit has no real effect on the total deer harvest at this point. If I made the rules and it were my intention to decrease harvest, the ideal tool would be a decrease in doe days.

If you are specifically interested in decreasing the limit I strongly recommend focusing your effort where it will do the most good and contact your legislative representatives, rather than WRD or web forums.
The law establishes the limit.

WRD has complete control of the number of either sex days.
__________________
Today is the oldest I've ever been and the youngest I'll ever be, need to make the most of it either way!
Reply With Quote
  #178  
Old 05-11-2012, 03:51 PM
rance56 rance56 is online now
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: hazlehurst
iTrader: (0) Check/Add Feedback
Default

some of yall need to seperate theory from reality.


a wise man once said the problem with the world is that the intelligent are full of doubts and the stupid are full of confidence
Reply With Quote
  #179  
Old 05-11-2012, 04:18 PM
Thanatos's Avatar
Thanatos Thanatos is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Macon
iTrader: (0) Check/Add Feedback
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Throwback View Post
I found this interesting map.

How would you like to be the person that hit the deer in Hawaii? They probably think it was a chupacabra.
Reply With Quote
  #180  
Old 05-11-2012, 04:44 PM
NCHillbilly's Avatar
NCHillbilly NCHillbilly is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Smoky Mountains, NC
iTrader: (0) Check/Add Feedback
Default

I don't think there would realistically be many people at all who kill twelve deer a year. Our limit here in NC is six deer, and I know very few people who actually regularly kill that many. About four deer a year will do me for meat (combined with wild hogs, small game, fish, and store-bought/raised meat,) and those usually come from two seperate regions of the state, and sometimes other states. I very, very seldom kill my limit, because I just don't need them. I doubt if people in Georgia are much different. I think the main problem for a lot of folks nowadays is the prevelance of hundred-acre leases with ten people hunting on them, combined with the let-all-the-non-B&C-bucks-walk-and-kill-does-for-meat mentality. Shoot some of those little antlered fellers instead and let some does walk. Your stomach and the deer herd will thank you. How many more mounted dead deer heads do you really need, anyway?
__________________
Son, I ain't sayin' what's right or wrong, I'm just sayin' how it is.....Black Oak Arkansas
Reply With Quote
  #181  
Old 05-12-2012, 08:03 AM
F.A.R.R. F.A.R.R. is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Canton, GA
iTrader: (0) Check/Add Feedback
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JB0704 View Post

No, that is not what I want. I am not a biologist, so my opinion is about worthless on the subject, but I personally would like to see a more targeted approach like Pennsylvania's or Marlyland's. I know each system has it's problems, but what they do makes more sense to me because regions are controlled much more specifically.

From what I understand public opinion trends towards simplicity in the regs, so I am probably in the minority on that point.

I don't want to punish everybody, instead, I would like the regs to protect everybody equally.

Perhaps your right.

I can see where you are upset if there has been a problem with overharvest in the area you hunt. I have seen the same thing-gross overharvest on a small property. The property that ajoins ours is 250 acres-one year the family that owns if took 16 deer off of it. There were 3 boys that were hunting it-and they were trigger happy. It was not good for the local deer population, but after a few year of going crazy like that they chilled out.

I agree that the current regs. leave it so the chance for overharvest exists. Like allot of others have said people are going to break the law no matter what the regs. are. The State Goverment in general and in particular the DNR has suffered from massive budget cuts-there really is no money to hire the mass # of wardens which would be necessary to regulate things as you desire. Also I can guarantee you if people had to start applying for doe tags on a county per county bases you'd hear allot more griping going on. For people who hunt in several or many different counties things would get confusing.

As others have said there is no solution that is going to make everyone happy, but with the way things are set up if you hunt in an area in which the deer population doesn't suit you- see if you may be able to find an area which is more in line with what you are wanting to get out of your hunting. The other option is to try to gather all of the people who hunt your area togather and have a meeting hosted by a DNR representative to discuss objectives and then work out a plan to work toward achieving them.
Reply With Quote
  #182  
Old 05-12-2012, 01:15 PM
rance56 rance56 is online now
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: hazlehurst
iTrader: (0) Check/Add Feedback
Default

imo, the main problem with the 12 deer limit, season long doe days is that it gives the perception of an overaubundance of deer. when that perception is given, more folks are apt to harvest alot of deer, poach deer and maybe even just leave them laying there, shoot them out of season, ect ect. if you are needing folks to be good stewards of the land, its best not to give them the impression they can run rampant with their harvesting of deer.

for those that say its neccesary so everyone has the chance to manage their heard correctly, just how many folks do you know harvesting 10 does each becuase they are over ridden with deer? and if you say the farmers need you to do it because of the crops, well they are already getting the permits for that.

i would think if someone is killing 10-12 deer in georgia, most likely on average that person is doing for the wrong reason not right interms of herd management.
Reply With Quote
  #183  
Old 05-12-2012, 03:50 PM
redwards's Avatar
redwards redwards is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Winder, GA...held securely in His hands!
iTrader: (0) Check/Add Feedback
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JB0704 View Post
I am trying to get my own lease this year. Either way I am still at the mercy of my neighbors. Past clubs have all been responsible folks, but you can only control what you have access to.....
Not necessarily, ever heard of a QDM Cooperative?
__________________
"In the broken down houses of our broken down world....We often are more defined by the brokenness that surrounds us, than the Redemption that is within us."
Reply With Quote
  #184  
Old 05-12-2012, 03:57 PM
redwards's Avatar
redwards redwards is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Winder, GA...held securely in His hands!
iTrader: (0) Check/Add Feedback
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JB0704 View Post
......


I respect your wisdom here. And will from now forward believe that a reduction in doe days might be necessary in targeted areas which have experienced over harvest. And that makes sense, really. Back when there were doe days, even though the people I hunted with were not really "ethical," nobody ever shot a doe except on those days it was legal.....
And that is something WRD did in some counties in Northeast Georgia last fall. For one, Franklin County had limited doe days this past season.
__________________
"In the broken down houses of our broken down world....We often are more defined by the brokenness that surrounds us, than the Redemption that is within us."
Reply With Quote
  #185  
Old 05-12-2012, 04:21 PM
redwards's Avatar
redwards redwards is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Winder, GA...held securely in His hands!
iTrader: (0) Check/Add Feedback
Default

Looking at GON Truck-Buck officially scored buck entries for 5 of the past 6 years at least appears to support this statement in the article referenced in the OP...
Quote:
We now have a slightly lower overall deer population, and that means more trophy bucks, but less deer sightings and total harvest too. There are hunters who are happy with the real possibility of seeing and tagging a true trophy, while there are also sportsmen who are dissatisfied that they are not seeing as many deer.
....
The average B&C score of all GON Truck-Buck bucks actually scored has risen, statewide as well as when the state is broken into the North and South Zones. Almost every Wildlife Management Unit (WMU's, 9 in all) indicate the same trend.

Charts below...
Top chart is statewide, average score by year of all Truck-Buck bucks scored in that respective year.
Second chart is by Northern and Southern Zone...
Attached Images
  
__________________
"In the broken down houses of our broken down world....We often are more defined by the brokenness that surrounds us, than the Redemption that is within us."
Reply With Quote
  #186  
Old 05-12-2012, 04:48 PM
GA DAWG's Avatar
GA DAWG GA DAWG is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: North
iTrader: (6) Check/Add Feedback
Default

If we hunters are responsible for our own. What good is the wrd? Why even pay em to stick around.? Use that money to just pay county law incase they have to catch somebody. That's who you have to call if you want action nowdays anyhow.
__________________
I've hunted almost everyday of my life.The rest have been wasted!!
Reply With Quote
  #187  
Old 05-12-2012, 09:55 PM
JB0704's Avatar
JB0704 JB0704 is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Ga.
iTrader: (0) Check/Add Feedback
Default

A couple of things with your post......

Quote:
Originally Posted by redwards View Post
Looking at GON Truck-Buck officially scored buck entries for 5 of the past 6 years at least appears to support this statement in the article referenced in the OP...

Quote:
We now have a slightly lower overall deer population, and that means more trophy bucks, but less deer sightings and total harvest too. There are hunters who are happy with the real possibility of seeing and tagging a true trophy, while there are also sportsmen who are dissatisfied that they are not seeing as many deer.
The average B&C score of all GON Truck-Buck bucks actually scored has risen, statewide as well as when the state is broken into the North and South Zones. Almost every Wildlife Management Unit (WMU's, 9 in all) indicate the same trend.
1. "True trophy" is very subjective. The "truest trophy" I ever killed was a button buck....my first deer ever. I have shot several nice bucks over the years, but nothing ever came close to that one.

2. We all have differing objectives when we hunt. For me, at present time, I am trying everything I can to get my kid on deer. So, less deer / bigger bucks is not necessarily a trade I currently want to make. Selfish? Sure. But so is the idea of county specific QDM. Some folks want it, other's don't. Everybody has an opinion on the subject. Somebody has to be the "loser" when it comes dow to a vote. But I am convinced there is a middle ground which would work better than where we are.

3. I believe a little bit of the increase in deer size is the taboo which exists in shooting little bucks now. It was apparent to me in the last few seasons that folks had no problem "thinning the herd" by shooting does, but nobody was shooting the spikes and 4-ptrs (which, to me anyway, is a good thing too).
__________________
" Dodgeball is a sport of violence, exclusion, and degradation" - Patches O'Houlihan
Reply With Quote
  #188  
Old 05-12-2012, 10:03 PM
JB0704's Avatar
JB0704 JB0704 is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Ga.
iTrader: (0) Check/Add Feedback
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by redwards View Post
And that is something WRD did in some counties in Northeast Georgia last fall. For one, Franklin County had limited doe days this past season.
I was aware of what happened in Franklin County, and that was very encouraging to me. I personally would like to see a more aggressive use of doe days.

Quote:
Originally Posted by redwards View Post
Not necessarily, ever heard of a QDM Cooperative?
Yes. And it is a very good idea. But I gave an example earlier as to how that good idea can be exploited an thwarted by one bad apple. Again, the smaller the lease you have, the more vulnerable you are to these things. If everybody in one area has larger areas they control, then that little area can be managed very effectively. The more different property managers exist within a local area, the more likely it is to be abused because of the additional variables (potential "trigger happy" hunters).

The "co-op" concept seems to me like a group of hunters "doing something" to correct a problem, or avoid a potential problem which exists because of the current regulations. I know folks will always break the law, but we still have laws for a reason. It acts as a deterrent to behavior. If just a few folks quit shooting every deer they see because the law no longer allows it, then we have a net positive for everybody.
__________________
" Dodgeball is a sport of violence, exclusion, and degradation" - Patches O'Houlihan
Reply With Quote
  #189  
Old 05-12-2012, 10:12 PM
JB0704's Avatar
JB0704 JB0704 is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Ga.
iTrader: (0) Check/Add Feedback
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by F.A.R.R. View Post
I agree that the current regs. leave it so the chance for overharvest exists. Like allot of others have said people are going to break the law no matter what the regs. are. The State Goverment in general and in particular the DNR has suffered from massive budget cuts-there really is no money to hire the mass # of wardens which would be necessary to regulate things as you desire. Also I can guarantee you if people had to start applying for doe tags on a county per county bases you'd hear allot more griping going on. For people who hunt in several or many different counties things would get confusing..
I appreciate your comments. But would like to add that there is another way of looking at this. On one hand, folks are always going to be unethical regardless of the regulations. Ethical and legal are not always the same thing. These regs legalize what is often unethical.

And, folks will always gripe, my position in this thread is all the proof we need for that

Quote:
Originally Posted by F.A.R.R. View Post
As others have said there is no solution that is going to make everyone happy, but with the way things are set up if you hunt in an area in which the deer population doesn't suit you- see if you may be able to find an area which is more in line with what you are wanting to get out of your hunting. The other option is to try to gather all of the people who hunt your area togather and have a meeting hosted by a DNR representative to discuss objectives and then work out a plan to work toward achieving them.
I guess the risk is the "abused" regions will gradually outnumer the well managed regions, and frustrated hunters will continue to congregate in those well regulated regions leading to abuse. Kind of like what I am doing now by looking for another lease.

The co-op, while a very good and effective idea, is only as good as the actions of those who join it. You and I can agree as to what a "shooter" is, but in the end, it is between you and the lord what you pull off of your land. It's an honor system. I have read and heard many good things about it, but I have also heard folks say they are only after a big buck, and show up at camp with a doe and two yearlings in the bed of their truck.
__________________
" Dodgeball is a sport of violence, exclusion, and degradation" - Patches O'Houlihan
Reply With Quote
  #190  
Old 05-13-2012, 07:01 AM
F.A.R.R. F.A.R.R. is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Canton, GA
iTrader: (0) Check/Add Feedback
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JB0704 View Post
A couple of things with your post......



1. "True trophy" is very subjective. The "truest trophy" I ever killed was a button buck....my first deer ever. I have shot several nice bucks over the years, but nothing ever came close to that one.

2. We all have differing objectives when we hunt. For me, at present time, I am trying everything I can to get my kid on deer. So, less deer / bigger bucks is not necessarily a trade I currently want to make. Selfish? Sure. But so is the idea of county specific QDM. Some folks want it, other's don't. Everybody has an opinion on the subject. Somebody has to be the "loser" when it comes dow to a vote. But I am convinced there is a middle ground which would work better than where we are.

3. I believe a little bit of the increase in deer size is the taboo which exists in shooting little bucks now. It was apparent to me in the last few seasons that folks had no problem "thinning the herd" by shooting does, but nobody was shooting the spikes and 4-ptrs (which, to me anyway, is a good thing too).
I don't think many can argue with the point you make here.

Every hunter should be the judge of what a "trophy" is to them and shouldn't be judged by others according to their standard.

With kids hunting an area with high densities helps. For kids it's even harder if they are trying to get there first deer in a QDM county. It's hard to explain to a youngster who has not so patiently waited on stand for a long time that they can't shoot a buck thats broad side at 30 yards because its rack isn't big enough. If enough of that happens they loose interest, and we need them to stay interseted and involved in hunting.
Reply With Quote
  #191  
Old 05-13-2012, 07:07 AM
F.A.R.R. F.A.R.R. is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Canton, GA
iTrader: (0) Check/Add Feedback
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JB0704 View Post
I appreciate your comments. But would like to add that there is another way of looking at this. On one hand, folks are always going to be unethical regardless of the regulations. Ethical and legal are not always the same thing. These regs legalize what is often unethical.

And, folks will always gripe, my position in this thread is all the proof we need for that



I guess the risk is the "abused" regions will gradually outnumer the well managed regions, and frustrated hunters will continue to congregate in those well regulated regions leading to abuse. Kind of like what I am doing now by looking for another lease.

The co-op, while a very good and effective idea, is only as good as the actions of those who join it. You and I can agree as to what a "shooter" is, but in the end, it is between you and the lord what you pull off of your land. It's an honor system. I have read and heard many good things about it, but I have also heard folks say they are only after a big buck, and show up at camp with a doe and two yearlings in the bed of their truck.
Some pretty good logic here too.
Reply With Quote
  #192  
Old 05-14-2012, 09:43 AM
elfiii's Avatar
elfiii elfiii is offline
Admin
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: The country formerly known as America
iTrader: (0) Check/Add Feedback
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by NCHillbilly View Post
How many more mounted dead deer heads do you really need, anyway?
3 or 4 more should 'bout do me proud. :ro fl:
__________________
Burn It Down!
Reply With Quote
  #193  
Old 05-14-2012, 09:47 AM
elfiii's Avatar
elfiii elfiii is offline
Admin
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: The country formerly known as America
iTrader: (0) Check/Add Feedback
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JB0704 View Post
No, that is not what I want. I am not a biologist, so my opinion is about worthless on the subject, but I personally would like to see a more targeted approach like Pennsylvania's or Marlyland's. I know each system has it's problems, but what they do makes more sense to me because regions are controlled much more specifically.
But as the narrative in the popular guide says, WRD can't do that and meet the expectations of all deer hunters. Thus, they defer to the deer hunters to do the right thing and take personal responsibility for their actions, a novel concept. They should be applauded.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JB0704 View Post
Perhaps your right.
You know it's so.
__________________
Burn It Down!
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:31 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2004 Georgia Outdoor News, Inc.Ad Management by RedTyger