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  #201  
Old 05-09-2012, 02:27 PM
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Originally Posted by stringmusic View Post
Truth is exclusive, everybody can't be right.
That is true




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Faith and acceptance of Christ are one in the same.
So before JC was on the earth, the people that died........never mind.
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  #202  
Old 05-09-2012, 02:27 PM
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After eons and eons of time hovering in a place that is beyond human comprehension, God finally decided that
You seem to know what God is thinking yourself.

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he was lonely and NEEDED to create a creature that will love and worship him.
Where did you get this little tidbit?

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God decided that the creature will have free will and does not have to worship him,
You got that part right.....

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but secretly at the end of that creatures life if it so chose not to worship God(and now his son too) that creature will burn for all eternity for carrying out God's will??????????????
....this part, not so much. It is not a secret that people who choose not to spend eternity with God, don't have too.

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Awesome line of thought.
It is if it's correct.
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  #203  
Old 05-09-2012, 02:43 PM
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You seem to know what God is thinking yourself.
Nope, just coming to my own conclusions from the info given.


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Originally Posted by stringmusic View Post
Where did you get this little tidbit?
God created man so that man can love and worship God on his own free will.
Tailor made....


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Originally Posted by stringmusic View Post
You got that part right.....
See I'm following closely so i do understand....


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Originally Posted by stringmusic View Post
....this part, not so much. It is not a secret that people who choose not to spend eternity with God, don't have too.
It IS a secret to every person that has never ever heard of God. It is only the people that heard and chose(with their given free will) to go another route that will not only NOT go to Heaven, but be tormented for all of eternity for their choice. It is not like they get to go to a decent vacation spot with a community pool, not a private one....they burn forever. You sugar coat it.


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It is if it's correct.
Odds are it is not correct.
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  #204  
Old 05-09-2012, 03:18 PM
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OK. One more time. There is no sin in heaven. Heaven is a holy place. There will be no desire to do someting the God will not want you to do. We will only want to worship God and be in his glory. When you just ate a 22oz steak, 5 lobster tails, 29 baked potatos, 16 salads and drank 3 gallons of water, do want to eat or drink any thing? Not likely. You are full and have your desires to eat and drink met to the fullest. You probably couldnt eat another bite. I know you could force yourself to try but you wont want to. In heaven you wont have your desires to sin met and be full from it but you just will not want to do it because you cant simply because sin does not exist in heaven. I guess it is hard to put into words because we can sin here on earth and we all do and it is so easy to do. It is also hard to imagine something that we know so well on earth will just not exist in heaven but it wont and I am so happy that I wont have to deal with it any more in heaven. If you are saved you will go to heaven. If you are worried about getting thrown out of heaven for sinning in heaven, stop. You wont. I am sorry that I am not smart enough to explain it better. Please just accept that there is no sin in heaven and when you get there you can ask God.
I've already addressed your points here. Instead of simply repeating yourself try responding to what I've said. Let's start with a definition of sin and go from there.
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  #205  
Old 05-09-2012, 05:24 PM
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God created man so that man can love and worship God on his own free will. If God wanted to, He could make man worship and love Him but that is not real love. Adam and Eve were in the Garden of Eden and they love and worshiped God. Who wouldnt? They lived in the greatest place on earth. God let Satan enter in the garden and tempt Adam and Eve. They ate the apple and that ended the life of luxary and ease as the knew it. Why did God allow Satan to ruin this for them? God wanted them to still love and worship Him. Now with all the hardships the world had to offer made life a lot harder for them and all of us today. Now when God is loved and worshiped, He really gets free will love and worship because of who He is and not because he provides us with the Garden of Eden.

Like in Heaven?
No not like in Heaven. You wont be forced to love and worship God in Heaven. One does it with his own free will just like he did on earth. If you didnt do it on earth, dont worry, it wont matter any way. You want be in Heaven. You will be at the BBQ. So dont be afraid God is going to make you love and worship him.
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  #206  
Old 05-09-2012, 05:29 PM
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God created man so that man can love and worship God on his own free will. If God wanted to, He could make man worship and love Him but that is not real love. Adam and Eve were in the Garden of Eden and they love and worshiped God. Who wouldnt? They lived in the greatest place on earth. God let Satan enter in the garden and tempt Adam and Eve. They ate the apple and that ended the life of luxary and ease as the knew it. Why did God allow Satan to ruin this for them? God wanted them to still love and worship Him. Now with all the hardships the world had to offer made life a lot harder for them and all of us today. Now when God is loved and worshiped, He really gets free will love and worship because of who He is and not because he provides us with the Garden of Eden.

Like in Heaven?
No not like in Heaven. You wont be forced to love and worship God in Heaven. One does it with his own free will just like he did on earth. If you didnt do it on earth, dont worry, it wont matter any way. You want be in Heaven. You will be at the BBQ. So dont be afraid God is going to make you love and worship him.
Impressive.
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  #207  
Old 05-09-2012, 05:52 PM
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Like in Heaven?

No not like in Heaven. You wont be forced to love and worship God in Heaven. One does it with his own free will just like he did on earth. If you didnt do it on earth, dont worry, it wont matter any way. You want be in Heaven. You will be at the BBQ. So dont be afraid God is going to make you love and worship him.
Can you just take one freaking day off from loving him, like a personal day? How about a half day? One day to just "do you"? Maybe go to the dog track or have a scotch?
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  #208  
Old 05-09-2012, 09:02 PM
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"There is no sin in heaven. Heaven is a holy place. There will be no desire to do someting the God will not want you to do."

BUT -- "You wont be forced to love and worship God in Heaven. One does it with his own free will just like he did on earth."

I take it you've BEEN to Heaven, since this is a pretty exacting description, but if you'll pardon me, it seems a bit oppressive.

If you HAVE free will, when you get there, and the whole time you are there, in fact, but God has removed anything and everything from the place (presumably including impure thoughts) that He will not want you to do (like think, for example), then what exactly is one FREE to do?

Sounds more like a prison than a utopia. Thank goodness you were paroled, and are back here to tell us about the details of how it works. We thank you immensely for the heads-up.
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  #209  
Old 05-10-2012, 12:07 AM
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I can't.



You are the only person I know, that can read my comments, and draw that conclusion.
Who else is posting to ya about what you wrote?
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  #210  
Old 05-10-2012, 12:16 AM
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Originally Posted by BrettJ
God created man so that man can love and worship God on his own free will. If God wanted to, He could make man worship and love Him but that is not real love. Adam and Eve were in the Garden of Eden and they love and worshiped God. Who wouldnt? They lived in the greatest place on earth. God let Satan enter in the garden and tempt Adam and Eve. They ate the apple and that ended the life of luxary and ease as the knew it. Why did God allow Satan to ruin this for them? God wanted them to still love and worship Him. Now with all the hardships the world had to offer made life a lot harder for them and all of us today. Now when God is loved and worshiped, He really gets free will love and worship because of who He is and not because he provides us with the Garden of Eden.

Like in Heaven?
No not like in Heaven. You wont be forced to love and worship God in Heaven. One does it with his own free will just like he did on earth. If you didnt do it on earth, dont worry, it wont matter any way. You want be in Heaven. You will be at the BBQ. So dont be afraid God is going to make you love and worship him.
Brett, you're wasting your time, just like the original poster, nobody really cares what we think, they just bait us so they can smack us upside the head with how stupid we are.

We will have free will in heaven. We won't be robots. We will enjoy everything about life. We will spend most of forever on a perfect earth. We will have all the pros in life and none of the cons. We will be able to hunt, and fish and no one gets killed accidentally, nothing will be polluted. I could say more of what I personally think heaven would be like, as the op asked, but that would be a waste of time....someone is here with a stick to
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  #211  
Old 05-10-2012, 12:18 AM
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Can you just take one freaking day off from loving him, like a personal day? How about a half day? One day to just "do you"? Maybe go to the dog track or have a scotch?
I'll have every day off
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  #212  
Old 05-10-2012, 12:26 AM
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God does not need you to love him.Who said he did? I didn't. Does He want you to love Him and His Son? God is self sustaining, self sufficient, self existent. He needs nothing. He does not need you.You're kiddin'??? really??? i thought He needed me to exist........who said He did? Why would anyone think that God needs them, I never ever thought God needed me, did you? Not even when I was 4 yrs old, my first recall of God, I didn't think He needed me, I've never heard of anyone who thinks God needs them....what's your point??? Just something to crush someones importance to God? God loves us, we are important to Him, He created us, He loves us, He gave His son for us, He loves us, why put someone down by saying God doesn't need you....is that really necessary. Do you go around telling all the little children in church that 'guess what??? God doesn't need you'....just to belittle them? I think that's pretty much a given, but do you have to make a big issue out of it? God is love, ya know. Let's concentrate on that instead of telling everyone how useless they are to God. Why don't you go around preaching the gospel, the GOOD NEWS, instead of depressing everyone to death about the negatitive stuff that you aren't even willing to testify or witness to???

If it is unfair for God to give mercy to some men, but not all men, would it not be equally unfair for God to give mercy to fallen men if he did not also give mercy to the fallen angels?Well I don't know, I don't think like God, do you? You seem to know exactly what God does and why, why don't you tell me.
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  #213  
Old 05-10-2012, 07:49 AM
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Who said he did? I didn't.
And I will take you at your word. Perhaps I read more into your comment than was there.
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Why don't you go around preaching the gospel, the GOOD NEWS, instead of depressing everyone to death about the negatitive stuff that you aren't even willing to testify or witness to???
The very fact that we are having this conversation nullifies your premise.
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  #214  
Old 05-10-2012, 12:10 PM
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The very fact that we are having this conversation nullifies your premise.
I thought you said in the freewill thread that you wanted to keep your testimony about your salvation private. If I missed it somewhere I'd love to hear it or you could guide me there.
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  #215  
Old 05-10-2012, 12:39 PM
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I know it is inconceivable to think that others HAVE read the book, MANY MANY MANY times over and have come to different conclusions than you, but yes, it happens.
Then why did the BrentJ 'heaven' post get ridiculed? His quotes came from bible

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  #216  
Old 05-10-2012, 01:28 PM
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Then why did the BrentJ 'heaven' post get ridiculed? His quotes came from bible

Because not everyone that reads the bible or those quotes believes they are worth any more than the ink it took to put them in the book.
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  #217  
Old 05-10-2012, 04:01 PM
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I thought you said in the freewill thread that you wanted to keep your testimony about your salvation private. If I missed it somewhere I'd love to hear it or you could guide me there.
I believe it was in your "who are the elect" thread. The thread where I was accused of heresy by a Mod. I touched on it in 2 or 3 separate post. I did not have liberty in discussing the intimate details.
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  #218  
Old 05-10-2012, 07:07 PM
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I believe it was in your "who are the elect" thread. The thread where I was accused of heresy by a Mod. I touched on it in 2 or 3 separate post. I did not have liberty in discussing the intimate details.
Ain't that sumthin?
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  #219  
Old 05-10-2012, 09:39 PM
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I believe it was in your "who are the elect" thread. The thread where I was accused of heresy by a Mod. I touched on it in 2 or 3 separate post. I did not have liberty in discussing the intimate details.
Well then we just have to guess at what you're getting at, right? That was my point when you said 'The very fact that we are having this conversation nullifies your premise'....we've discussed over and over in the elect thread, you haven't...you just throw these things out like God doesn't need you, therefore that = that He chose you even though He didn't need you....He chose you anyway...makes no sense to me at all. Just ways to make little importance of us.....Lord help Me Jesus, You died for Me, yet I am not important to you. That sort of belittles God's gift to us doesn't it?

I think you have it backards.....I seek God because I need God, and you're right He doesn't need me, why would He seek me? It cannot be both ways ya know. He chose you, because He needs you, personally? or what? or did He offer everyone a gift or just a special few that He needed. You could make my head spin right off in confusion of where you're coming from.
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  #220  
Old 05-10-2012, 09:44 PM
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Because not everyone that reads the bible or those quotes believes they are worth any more than the ink it took to put them in the book.
Well then who the heck is the original poster asking if not those who believe?
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  #221  
Old 05-10-2012, 10:20 PM
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Well then who the heck is the original poster asking if not those who believe?
Every once in a while try to think outside of the box.
Many religions or beliefs have a heaven. Not all follow the Bible. There can be and is separation. Christianity does not have exclusive rights to a heaven.
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  #222  
Old 05-10-2012, 10:29 PM
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I believe it was in your "who are the elect" thread. The thread where I was accused of heresy by a Mod. I touched on it in 2 or 3 separate post. I did not have liberty in discussing the intimate details.
Oh, we all think the rest are heretics. It kind-of goes with what we are discussing. You should see the whipping I am taking up in the hunting forum over deer limits I think I have made 2 mods, an admin, and a game biologist quite upset with me....unintentionally, for sure

That being said, I appreciate your honesty and convictions of your beliefs: extremely consistent even when uncomfortable, though I disagree with some of them.
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  #223  
Old 05-11-2012, 07:55 AM
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Christianity does not have exclusive rights to a heaven.
No, Just how to arrive. "Religion" looks the other way when a true "death to self" by the power of Another is concerned. Which is why the cross trips up many a "religion" and most nay-sayers.
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  #224  
Old 05-11-2012, 08:01 AM
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Well then we just have to guess at what you're getting at, right?
I hope not. I try to discuss these things in a way as to leave no guessing as to where I stand.
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we've discussed over and over in the elect thread, you haven't
That is not my recollection of the thread. I was quite engaged.
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Lord help Me Jesus, You died for Me, yet I am not important to you. That sort of belittles God's gift to us doesn't it?
No. If Christ died for you it is of utmost importance. It belittles Christ to claim that He accomplished salvation for all of mankind, but did not secure it.
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I seek God because I need God
Does one continually seek God when one has God?
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  #225  
Old 05-11-2012, 12:14 PM
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Does one continually seek God when one has God?
I don't know if I want to use the word seek, maybe I should say 'panteth'.....but yes I continually seek God. I don't say 'ok I'm saved, that's it'. I continue in the Word, I desire to know everything I can about His Word. I desire to be closer to Him to abide constantly in Him. I seek wisdom in His will for my life, I want to work from His will not mine...mine doesn't work out so well.

Anyway yes you were quite verbal in the elect thread, but quite secretive about exactly where you were coming from, that's my point. You'd throw short sentences out there, as you do now, but didn't or wouldn't feel comfortable or able to tell your thought process behind what you said or why.

Saying 'God saves all His people', or 'God doesn't need you', even though I know what those quotes are intended for, other readers may get confused by that. And that may not matter to you, but it does to me....we don't need anymore stumbling blocks than we already have and to put any doubt in a believers mind about something they believe without being willing to explain the entire doctrine from where you are throwing these snipits just doesn't sit right with me. But then I'm not the judge...I'm just saying we are here to help people understand the gospel, not to feel comfortable enough to stir a pinch of confusion here and there into the pot but not comfortable enough to explain the root of that belief.
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