#101  
Old 06-26-2012, 06:41 AM
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Don't start it then point fingers and complain when someone returns the favor.
That right there is funny.I'm not the one complaining or pointing fingers,you are!!!
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  #102  
Old 06-26-2012, 06:45 AM
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That right there is funny.I'm not the one complaining or pointing fingers,you are!!!
Comprehension, Im sure, is included in Asath's statistics also.
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Old 06-26-2012, 07:04 AM
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Comprehension, Im sure, is included in Asath's statistics also.
Now you?Surprising!!!
All that put aside...Where's the proof that i ask for.
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  #104  
Old 06-26-2012, 07:16 AM
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Study Finds Religion May Be Heading for Extinction in Parts of World
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/03/23...t-parts-world/
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  #105  
Old 06-26-2012, 07:22 AM
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by Craig A James
Is Christianity Dying?
The other day I wrote about the shortage of young priests in Ireland, which started me thinking (again) about the more general question: Why is Christianity slowly dying? It's clearly on the wane, especially in Europe but even in America things look grim. Just google for "decline of Christianity" and you'll even find major Christian writers lamenting this trend.

There are many hypotheses, most of which include news reports of pedophile priests, "militant" atheists, or a vague "decline in morals" of some sort. And I'm sure these are all contributing to some degree.

But I have my own theory, which I can sum up in one word: Education.

Education is the enemy of religion, plain and simple. Hundreds of years ago, it was easy to keep people "in the fold," because many couldn't read, and priests could pretty much tell them anything plausible and they'd believe it. The Bible's many inconsistencies and immoralities were easy to cover up.

Then came literacy, and with it a lot of questions. My fellow blogger Sarah Trachtenberg writes wonderful stories of people's journey from religion to atheism, and a large number of them tell of how, when they really read the Bible, it raised more questions than it answered, and when they tried to ask for help, were rebuffed, told to pray for guidance, or that "God works in mysterious ways." Julia Sweeney's Letting Go of God is a wonderful example of this.

So literacy itself proved a problem, but that was just the beginning. I believe the real decline of Christianity (and all organized religion) started in the 1950's when science became a priority in our schools. World War II had shown the world's leaders that scientists were critical to the war, on every front. Submarines, nuclear bombs, jet engines, cryptography, radio, and so many more scientific contributions were crucial to defeating the Nazi and Japanese war machines. That was followed by Sputnik and the "space race." American children started learning about science in record numbers.

And the simple fact is that, in spite of what the Pope and Francis Collins claim, Christianity is incompatible with science. You can believe one, or you can believe the other, but very few people (Collins being a notable exception) who truly understand science can believe that Jesus Christ was the son of God, performed miracles, and was resurrected. It just makes no sense.

Furthermore, the most fundamental rules of science teach us that amazing claims require amazing proofs, and the Christian religion is full of amazing claims that have no proof whatsoever. When someone is given a solid education in science, they almost inevitably begin to question what they learned in church.

To me, the decline of Christianity is no mystery at all. As long as we, as a society, continue our quest for knowledge, and continue to educate our children, to fill their heads with the latest wonders of science and mathematics, religion will continue to fade. I doubt it will ever disappear, but I predict that within my lifetime, America will become at least 50% non-Christian.

Is Christianity Dying? New evidence hints that Christianity is quickly losing its grip on America and may become a minority religion within a single generation. If you found this blog provacative, we've collected the very best ninety nine of these essays into a book: Is Christianity Dying? Ninety-Nine Reflections in Religion, Science and Morality – just $0.99 on Kindle! Also check out my Amazon bestseller, The Religion Virus. "Ingenious! Educational and entertaining, packed
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  #106  
Old 06-26-2012, 07:24 AM
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Study Finds Religion May Be Heading for Extinction in Parts of World
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/03/23...t-parts-world/
And if an Atheist accepts 1st amendment rights for religious protection under the constitution does that make Atheism a religion? The courts certainly think so, and by admission and acceptance of the ruling, so does the plaintiff.

Ergo, a religion cannot abolish, or overtake religion.

http://www.wnd.com/2005/08/31895/
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Old 06-26-2012, 07:29 AM
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And if an Atheist accepts 1st amendment rights for religious protection under the constitution does that make Atheism a religion? The courts certainly think so, and by admission and acceptance of the ruling, so does the plaintiff.

Ergo, a religion cannot abolish, or overtake religion.

http://www.wnd.com/2005/08/31895/
If someone does not believe in a God they are labeled an Atheist. It might be too broad of a word. Somebody is always looking for an angle to beat the system. If he(and the courts) want to make Atheism a religion then what is everyone else supposed to do?
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  #108  
Old 06-26-2012, 07:45 AM
Miguel Cervantes Miguel Cervantes is offline
 
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If someone does not believe in a God they are labeled an Atheist. It might be too broad of a word. Somebody is always looking for an angle to beat the system. If he(and the courts) want to make Atheism a religion then what is everyone else supposed to do?
Please do not confuse the term theism with religion.

The act of not believing in a God or Deity is fine for your beliefs, whether you be an agnostic or atheist. The act of aggressively and religiously attacking, working against, striving to abolish all of those that do believe, is a religion. It is a trend that has come to the forefront of Atheism over the last couple of decades, and is direct violation of the pendulum theorem. Ignoring nature and physics is a bad idea, regardless of what you do or do not believe.
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Old 06-26-2012, 08:00 AM
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Please do not confuse the term theism with religion.
Noted

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Originally Posted by Miguel Cervantes View Post
The act of not believing in a God or Deity is fine for your beliefs, whether you be an agnostic or atheist.
Agreed
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The act of aggressively and religiously attacking, working against, striving to abolish all of those that do believe, is a religion.
Also Agreed. That might be the most accurate and honest statement I have ever heard a believer make on here. And that is EXACTLY what believers of one religion do to believers of another religion. They try to do all those things you mention in order to strengthen their own. IF Atheism is a religion then it fits right in.
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It is a trend that has come to the forefront of Atheism over the last couple of decades, and is direct violation of the pendulum theorem.
Your gonna have to explain that one a little better for me.
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Ignoring nature and physics is a bad idea, regardless of what you do or do not believe.
Agreed x3
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  #110  
Old 06-26-2012, 08:04 AM
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Also Agreed. And that is EXACTLY what SOME believers of one religion do to believers of another religion. They try to do all those things you mention in order to strengthen their own. IF Atheism is a religion then it fits right in.
Fixed it for you. To stereotype all, is to say all atheist have a bent for abolishing any religion.

As the old judge once said, "It just ain't so".
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  #111  
Old 06-26-2012, 08:06 AM
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Fixed it for you. To stereotype all, is to say all atheist have a bent for abolishing any religion.

As the old judge once said, "It just ain't so".
No need to fix anything for me. I worded it exactly as I wanted it worded and in fact I added some to it.
I don't mess with your posts, don't mess with mine.
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Old 06-26-2012, 08:08 AM
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Fixed it for you. To stereotype all, is to say all atheist have a bent for abolishing any religion.

As the old judge once said, "It just ain't so".
As a whole, each religion is doing everything possible to make theirs the one and only. History backs that up ten fold.
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  #113  
Old 06-26-2012, 08:08 AM
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Off to work. Will chat tonight.
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  #114  
Old 06-26-2012, 08:13 AM
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No need to fix anything for me. I worded it exactly as I wanted it worded and in fact I added some to it.
I don't mess with your posts, don't mess with mine.
That's a shame.

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As a whole, each religion is doing everything possible to make theirs the one and only. History backs that up ten fold.
In this, you are either absolutely mislead in what you have been taught or are simply wrong in your belief. History proves nothing of the sort and I challenge you to lend credibility to your statement.
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Old 06-26-2012, 02:53 PM
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That's a shame.



In this, you are either absolutely mislead in what you have been taught or are simply wrong in your belief. History proves nothing of the sort and I challenge you to lend credibility to your statement.
I am totally off base. There are no examples within the Major religions in the past 5000 years that show how any had a believe or be killed rule. My bad.

food for thought:
Some critics of religion such as Jack Nelson-Pallmeyer argue that all monotheistic religions are inherently violent. For example, Nelson-Pallmeyer writes that "Judaism, Christianity and Islam will continue to contribute to the destruction of the world until and unless each challenges violence in "sacred texts" and until each affirms nonviolent power of God".[32]

Hector Avalos argues that, because religions claim divine favor for themselves, over and against other groups, this sense of righteousness leads to violence because conflicting claims to superiority, based on unverifiable appeals to God, cannot be adjudicated objectively.[33]

Similarly, Eric Hickey writes, "(t)he history of religious violence in the West is as long as the historical record of its three major religions, Judaism, Christianity, and Islam, with their involved mutual antagonisms and struggles to adapt and survive the secular forces that threaten their continued existence."[34]

Regina Schwartz argues that all monotheistic religions, including Christianity, are inherently violent because of an exclusivism that inevitably fosters violence against those that are considered outsiders.[35] Lawrence Wechsler asserts that Schwartz isn't just arguing that Abrahamic religions have a violent legacy, but that the legacy is actually genocidal in nature.[36]

Bruce Feiler writes that "Jews and Christians who smugly console themselves that Islam is the only violent religion are willfully ignoring their past. Nowhere is the struggle between faith and violence described more vividly, and with more stomach-turning details of ruthlessness, than in the Hebrew Bible"
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  #116  
Old 06-26-2012, 02:57 PM
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I am totally off base. There are no examples within the Major religions in the past 5000 years that show how any had a believe or be killed rule. My bad.
I didn't say that. When you can start taking peoples word at face value and stop interjecting your emotions and own meanings then this discussion might make some fruitful gains.

Until then, enjoy your clearly decided agenda.
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  #117  
Old 06-26-2012, 02:58 PM
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That's a shame.
In this, you are either absolutely mislead in what you have been taught or are simply wrong in your belief. History proves nothing of the sort and I challenge you to lend credibility to your statement.
Crusades, Inquisition, Witch Hunts? What were they about?
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  #118  
Old 06-26-2012, 03:03 PM
Miguel Cervantes Miguel Cervantes is offline
 
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Crusades, Inquisition, Witch Hunts? What were they about?
Your statement several posts ago was that they (religions) all do it to each other. How many religions do you suppose their are in the world and how many do you believe have been involved in such competitive practices?

If you wish to do what most atheist and agnostics do and make this a "end of Christianity" discussion, contrary to the thread title and article, then we can, for what you are trying to prove does cover the Christian religion. However, we are discussing ALL religion, which encompasses all faiths and belief systems.
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Old 06-26-2012, 03:08 PM
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Your statement several posts ago was that they (religions) all do it to each other. How many religions do you suppose their are in the world and how many do you believe have been involved in such competitive practices?

If you wish to do what most atheist and agnostics do and make this a "end of Christianity" discussion, contrary to the thread title and article, then we can, for what you are trying to prove does cover the Christian religion. However, we are discussing ALL religion, which encompasses all faiths and belief systems.
I'm not picking on one in particular, just giving examples of some of the better known religions.
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  #120  
Old 06-26-2012, 03:13 PM
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I'm not picking on one in particular, just giving examples of some of the better known religions.
So Buddhism and Hinduism aren't better known?
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  #121  
Old 06-26-2012, 03:19 PM
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So Buddhism and Hinduism aren't better known?
Yes they are but they don't have the death tolls like the others.
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  #122  
Old 06-26-2012, 03:21 PM
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I'm working on a list, be patient.
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  #123  
Old 06-26-2012, 03:40 PM
Miguel Cervantes Miguel Cervantes is offline
 
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Before you go too far with your list, let me point out a few flaws in the authors overly ambitious "theory" of how things will go;

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Countries with the best standard of living are turning atheist. That shift offers a glimpse into the world's future.
Standards of living are on the decline due to the monetary crisis in most every country on this globe.

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The basic idea is that as people become more affluent, they are less worried about lacking for basic necessities, or dying early from violence or disease. In other words they are secure in their own existence. They do not feel the need to appeal to supernatural entities to calm their fears and insecurities.
Great idea, and partially true for a percentage of a population, but not for those of any religion that are faithful. Besides, as afore mentioned, we are in a global economic decline. Once powerful nations are being tossed into civil wars. Otherwise bastions of stability are now faced with riots by their own people as their governments are going bankrupt and struggling to maintain sovereignty.

So I'm not really sure what "world" this author is talking about, because this one is in a heap of trouble, and by using his own "thesis" humanity is going away from stability and security for the common man about as fast as can be possible.

Perhaps he has been smoking the good stuff and is dreaming of a Logan's Run Utopian type society that he saw on the Syfi channel or something, because the conditions necessary for his pipe dream to come true certainly aren't in existence today, nor will they be for the conceived future.
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  #124  
Old 06-26-2012, 04:07 PM
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Before you go too far with your list, let me point out a few flaws in the authors overly ambitious "theory" of how things will go;



Standards of living are on the decline due to the monetary crisis in most every country on this globe.



Great idea, and partially true for a percentage of a population, but not for those of any religion that are faithful. Besides, as afore mentioned, we are in a global economic decline. Once powerful nations are being tossed into civil wars. Otherwise bastions of stability are now faced with riots by their own people as their governments are going bankrupt and struggling to maintain sovereignty.

So I'm not really sure what "world" this author is talking about, because this one is in a heap of trouble, and by using his own "thesis" humanity is going away from stability and security for the common man about as fast as can be possible.

Perhaps he has been smoking the good stuff and is dreaming of a Logan's Run Utopian type society that he saw on the Syfi channel or something, because the conditions necessary for his pipe dream to come true certainly aren't in existence today, nor will they be for the conceived future.
Which author are you talking about?
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  #125  
Old 06-26-2012, 07:15 PM
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James A. Haught: Holy Horrors (1990)
A pig caused hundreds of Indians to kill one another in 1980. The animal walked through a Muslim holy ground at Moradabad, near New Delhi. Muslims, who think pigs are an embodiment of Satan, blamed Hindus for the defilement. They went on a murder rampage, stabbing and clubbing Hindus, who retaliated in kind. The pig riot spread to a dozen cities and left more than 200 dead.
This swinish episode tells a universal tale. It typifies religious behavior that has been recurring for centuries.
Ronald Reagan often called religion the world's mightiest force for good, "the bedrock of moral order." George Bush said it gives people "the character they need to get through life." This view is held by millions. But the truism isn't true. The record of human experience shows that where religion is strong, it causes cruelty. Intense beliefs produce intense hostility. Only when faith loses its force can a society hope to become humane.
The history of religion is a horror story. If anyone doubts it, just review this chronicle of religion's gore during the last 1,000 years or so:
-- The First Crusade was launched in 1095 with the battle cry "Deus Vult" (God wills it), a mandate to destroy infidels in the Holy Land. Gathering crusaders in Germany first fell upon "the infidel among us," Jews in the Rhine valley, thousands of whom were dragged from their homes or hiding places and hacked to death or burned alive. Then the religious legions plundered their way 2,000 miles to Jerusalem, where they killed virtually every inhabitant, "purifying" the symbolic city. Cleric Raymond of Aguilers wrote: "In the temple of Solomon, one rode in blood up to the knees and even to the horses' bridles, by the just and marvelous judgment of God."
-- Human sacrifice blossomed in the Mayan theocracy of Central America between the 11th and 16th centuries. To appease a feathered-serpent god, maidens were drowned in sacred wells and other victims either had their hearts cut out, were shot with arrows, or were beheaded. Elsewhere, sacrifice was sporadic. In Peru, pre-Inca tribes killed children in temples called "houses of the moon." In Tibet, Bon shamans performed ritual killings. In Borneo builders of pile houses drove the first pile through the body of a maiden to pacify the earth goddess. In India, Dravidian people offered lives to village goddesses, and followers of Kali sacrificed a male child every Friday evening.
-- In the Third Crusade, after Richard the Lion-Hearted captured Acre in 1191, he ordered 3,000 captives -- many of them women and children -- taken outside the city and slaughtered. Some were disemboweled in a search for swallowed gems. Bishops intoned blessings. Infidel lives were of no consequence. As Saint Bernard of Clairvaux declared in launching the Second Crusade: "The Christian glories in the death of a pagan, because thereby Christ himself is glorified."
-- The Assassins were a sect of Ismaili Shi'ite Muslims whose faith required the stealthy murder of religious opponents. From the 11th to 13th centuries, they killed numerous leaders in modern-day Iran, Iraq and Syria. They finally were wiped out by conquering Mongols -- but their vile name survives.
-- Throughout Europe, beginning in the 1100s, tales spread that Jews were abducting Christian children, sacrificing them, and using their blood in rituals. Hundreds of massacres stemmed from this "blood libel." Some of the supposed sacrifice victims -- Little Saint Hugh of Lincoln, the holy child of LaGuardia, Simon of Trent -- were beatified or commemorated with shrines that became sites of pilgrimages and miracles.
-- In 1209, Pope Innocent III launched an armed crusade against Albigenses Christians in southern France. When the besieged city of Beziers fell, soldiers reportedly asked their papal adviser how to distinguish the faithful from the infidel among the captives. He commanded: "Kill them all. God will know his own." Nearly 20,000 were slaughtered -- many first blinded, mutilated, dragged behind horses, or used for target practice.
-- The Fourth Lateran Council in 1215 proclaimed the doctrine of transubstantiation: that the host wafer miraculously turns into the body of Jesus during the mass. Soon rumors spread that Jews were stealing the sacred wafers and stabbing or driving nails through them to crucify Jesus again. Reports said that the pierced host bled, cried out, or emitted spirits. On this charge, Jews were burned at the stake in 1243 in Belitz, Germany -- the first of many killings that continued into the 1800s. To avenge the tortured host, the German knight Rindfliesch led a brigade in 1298 that exterminated 146 defenseless Jewish communities in six months.
-- In the 1200s the Incas built their empire in Peru, a society dominated by priests reading daily magical signs and offering sacrifices to appease many gods. At major ceremonies up to 200 children were burned as offerings. Special "chosen women" -- comely virgins without blemish -- were strangled.
-- Also during the 1200s, the hunt for Albigensian heretics led to establishment of the Inquisition, which spread over Europe. Pope Innocent IV authorized torture. Under interrogation by Dominican priests, screaming victims were stretched, burned, pierced and broken on fiendish pain machines to make them confess to disbelief and to identify fellow transgressors. Inquisitor Robert le Bourge sent 183 people to the stake in a single week.
-- In Spain, where many Jews and Moors had converted to escape persecution, inquisitors sought those harboring their old faith. At least 2,000 Spanish backsliders were burned. Executions in other countries included the burning of scientists such as mathematician-philosopher Giordano Bruno, who espoused Copernicus's theory that the planets orbit the sun.
-- When the Black Death swept Europe in 1348-1349, rumors alleged that it was caused by Jews poisoning wells. Hysterical mobs slaughtered thousands of Jews in several countries. In Speyer, Germany, the burned bodies were piled into giant wine casks and sent floating down the Rhine. In northern Germany Jews were walled up alive in their homes to suffocate or starve. The Flagellants, an army of penitents who whipped themselves bloody, stormed the Jewish quarter of Frankfurt in a gruesome massacre. The prince of Thuringia announced that he had burned his Jews for the honor of God.
-- The Aztecs began their elaborate theocracy in the 1300s and brought human sacrifice to a golden era. About 20,000 people were killed yearly to appease gods -- especially the sun god, who needed daily "nourishment" of blood. Hearts of sacrifice victims were cut out, and some bodies were eaten ceremoniously. Other victims were drowned, beheaded, burned or dropped from heights. In a rite to the rain god, shrieking children were killed at several sites so that their tears might induce rain. In a rite to the maize goddess, a virgin danced for 24 hours, then was killed and skinned; her skin was worn by a priest in further dancing. One account says that at King Ahuitzotl's coronation, 80,000 prisoners were butchered to please the gods.
-- In the 1400s, the Inquisition shifted its focus to witchcraft. Priests tortured untold thousands of women into confessing that they were witches who flew through the sky and engaged in sex with the devil -- then they were burned or hanged for their confessions. Witch hysteria raged for three centuries in a dozen nations. Estimates of the number executed vary from 100,000 to 2 million. Whole villages were exterminated. In the first half of the 17th century, about 5,000 "witches" were put to death in the French province of Alsace, and 900 were burned in the Bavarian city of Bamberg. The witch craze was religious madness at its worst.
-- The "Protestant Inquisition" is a term applied to the severities of John Calvin in Geneva and Queen Elizabeth I in England during the 1500s. Calvin's followers burned 58 "heretics," including theologian Michael Servetus, who doubted the Trinity. Elizabeth I outlawed Catholicism and executed about 200 Catholics.
-- Protestant Huguenots grew into an aggressive minority in France in the 15OOs -- until repeated Catholic reprisals smashed them. On Saint Bartholomew's Day in 1572, Catherine de Medicis secretly authorized Catholic dukes to send their soldiers into Huguenot neighborhoods and slaughter families. This massacre touched off a six-week bloodbath in which Catholics murdered about 10,000 Huguenots. Other persecutions continued for two centuries, until the French Revolution. One group of Huguenots escaped to Florida; in 1565 a Spanish brigade discovered their colony, denounced their heresy, and killed them all.
-- Members of lndia's Thuggee sect strangled people as sacrifices to appease the bloodthirsty goddess Kali, a practice beginning in the 1500s. The number of victims has been estimated to be as high as 2 million. Thugs were claiming about 20,000 lives a year in the 1800s until British rulers stamped them out. At a trial in 1840, one Thug was accused of killing 931 people. Today, some Hindu priests still sacrifice goats to Kali.
-- The Anabaptists, communal "rebaptizers," were slaughtered by both Catholic and Protestant authorities. In Munster, Germany, Anabaptists took control of the city, drove out the clergymen, and proclaimed a New Zion. The bishop of Munster began an armed siege. While the townspeople starved, the Anabaptist leader proclaimed himself king and executed dissenters. When Munster finally fell, the chief Anabaptists were tortured to death with red-hot pincers and their bodies hung in iron cages from a church steeple.
-- Oliver Cromwell was deemed a moderate because he massacred only Catholics and Anglicans, not other Protestants. This Puritan general commanded Bible-carrying soldiers, whom he roused to religious fervor. After decimating an Anglican army, Cromwell said, "God made them as stubble to our swords." He demanded the beheading of the defeated King Charles I, and made himself the holy dictator of England during the 1650s. When his army crushed the hated Irish Catholics, he ordered the execution of the surrendered defenders of Drogheda and their priests, calling it "a righteous judgment of God upon these barbarous wretches."
-- Ukrainian Bogdan Chmielnicki was a Cossack Cromwell. He wore the banner of Eastern Orthodoxy in a holy war against Jews and Polish Catholics. More than 100,000 were killed in this 17th-century bloodbath, and the Ukraine was split away from Poland to become part of the Orthodox Russian empire.
-- The Thirty Years' War produced the largest religious death toll of all time. It began in 1618 when Protestant leaders threw two Catholic emissaries out of a Prague window into a dung heap. War flared between Catholic and Protestant princedoms, drawing in supportive religious armies from Germany, Spain, England, Holland, Denmark, Sweden, France and Italy. Sweden's Protestant soldiers sang Martin Luther's "Ein 'Feste Burg" in battle. Three decades of combat turned central Europe into a wasteland of misery. One estimate states that Germany's population dropped from 18 million to 4 million. In the end nothing was settled, and too few people remained to rebuild cities, plant fields, or conduct education.
-- When Puritans settled in Massachusetts in the 1600s, they created a religious police state where doctrinal deviation could lead to flogging, pillorying, hanging, cutting off ears, or boring through the tongue with a hot iron. Preaching Quaker beliefs was a capital offense. Four stubborn Quakers defied this law and were hanged. In the 1690s fear of witches seized the colony. Twenty alleged witches were killed and 150 others imprisoned.
-- In 1723 the bishop of Gdansk, Poland, demanded that all Jews be expelled from the city. The town council declined, but the bishop's exhortations roused a mob that invaded the ghetto and beat the residents to death.
-- Islamic jihads (holy wars), mandated by the Koran, killed millions over 12 centuries. In early years, Muslim armies spread the faith rapidly: east to India and west to Morocco. Then splintering sects branded other Muslims as infidels and declared jihads against them. The Kharijis battled Sunni rulers. The Azariqis decreed death to all "sinners" and their families. In 1804 a Sudanese holy man, Usman dan Fodio, waged a bloody jihad that broke the religious sway of the Sultan of Gobir. In the 1850s another Sudanese mystic, 'Umar al-Hajj, led a barbaric jihad to convert pagan African tribes with massacres, beheadings and a mass execution of 300 hostages. In the 1880s a third Sudanese holy man, Muhammad Ahmed, commanded a jihad that destroyed a 10,000-man Egyptian army and wiped out defenders of Khartoum led by British general Charles "Chinese" Gordon.
-- In 1801 Orthodox priests in Bucharest, Romania, revived the story that Jews sacrificed Christians and drank their blood. Enraged parishioners stormed the ghetto and cut the throats of 128 Jews.
-- When the Baha'i faith began in Persia in 1844, the Islamic regime sought to exterminate it. The Baha'i founder was imprisoned and executed in 1850. Two years later, the religious government massacred 20,000 Baha'is. Streets of Tehran were soaked with blood. The new Baha'i leader, Baha'ullah, was tortured and exiled in foreign Muslim prisons for the rest of his life.
-- In 1857 both Muslim and Hindu taboos triggered the Sepoy Mutiny in India. British rulers had given their native soldiers new paper cartridges that had to be bitten open. The cartridges were greased with animal tallow. This enraged Muslims, to whom pigs are unclean, and Hindus, to whom cows are sacred. Troops of both faiths went into a crazed mutiny, killing Europeans wantonly. At Kanpur, hundreds of European women and children were massacred after being promised safe passage.
-- Late in the 19th century, with rebellion stirring in Russia, the czars attempted to divert public attention by helping anti-Semitic groups rouse Orthodox Christian hatred for Jews. Three waves of pogroms ensued -- in the 1880s, from 1903 to 1906, and during the Russian Revolution. Each wave was increasingly murderous. During the final period, 530 communities were attacked and 60,000 Jews were killed.
-- In the early 1900s, Muslim Turks waged genocide against Christian Armenians, and Christian Greeks and Balkans warred against the Islamic Ottoman Empire.
-- When India finally won independence from Britain in 1947, the "great soul" of Mahatma Gandhi wasn't able to prevent Hindus and Muslims from turning on one another in a killing frenzy that took perhaps 1 million lives. Even Gandhi was killed by a Hindu who thought him too pro-Muslim.
-- In the 1950s and 1960s, combat between Christians, animists and Muslims in Sudan killed more than 500,000.
-- In Jonestown, Guyana, in 1978, followers of the Rev. Jim Jones killed a visiting congressman and three newsmen, then administered cyanide to themselves and their children in a 900-person suicide that shocked the world.
-- Islamic religious law decrees that thieves shall have their hands or feet chopped off, and unmarried lovers shall be killed. In the Sudan in 1983 and 1984, 66 thieves were axed in public. A moderate Muslim leader, Mahmoud Mohammed Taha, was hanged for heresy in 1985 because he opposed these amputations. In Saudi Arabia a teen-age princess and her lover were executed in public in 1977. In Pakistan in 1987, a 25-year-old carpenter's daughter was sentenced to be stoned to death for engaging in unmarried sex. In the United Arab Emirates in 1984, a cook and a maid were sentenced to stoning for adultery -- but, as a show of mercy, the execution was postponed until after the maid's baby was born.
-- In 1983 in Darkley, Northern Ireland, Catholic terrorists with automatic weapons burst into a Protestant church on a Sunday morning and opened fire, killing three worshipers and wounding seven. It was just one of hundreds of Catholic-Protestant ambushes that have taken 2,600 lives in Ulster since age-old religious hostility turned violent again in 1969.
-- Hindu-Muslim bloodshed erupts randomly throughout India. More than 3,000 were killed in Assam province in 1983. In May 1984 Muslims hung dirty sandals on a Hindu leader's portrait as a religious insult. This act triggered a week of arson riots that left 216 dead, 756 wounded, 13,000 homeless, and 4,100 in jail.
-- Religious tribalism -- segregation of sects into hostile camps -- has ravaged Lebanon continuously since 1975. News reports of the civil war tell of "Maronite Christian snipers," "Sunni Muslim suicide bombers," "Druze machine gunners," "Shi'ite Muslim mortar fire," and "Alawite Muslim shootings." Today 130,000 people are dead and a once-lovely nation is laid waste.
-- In Nigeria in 1982, religious fanatic followers of Mallam Marwa killed and mutilated several hundred people as heretics and infidels. They drank the blood of some of the victims. When the militia arrived to quell the violence, the cultists sprinkled themselves with blessed powder that they thought would make them impervious to police bullets. It didn't.
-- Today's Shi'ite theocracy in Iran -- "the government of God on earth" -- decreed that Baha'i believers who won't convert shall be killed. About 200 stubborn Baha'is were executed in the early 1980s, including women and teenagers. Up to 40,000 Baha'is fled the country. Sex taboos in Iran are so severe that: (1) any woman who shows a lock of hair is jailed; (2) Western magazines being shipped into the country first go to censors who laboriously black out all women's photos except for faces; (3) women aren't allowed to ski with men, but have a separate slope where they may ski in shrouds.
-- The lovely island nation of Sri Lanka has been turned h3llish by ambushes and massacres between Buddhist Sinhalese and Hindu Tamils.
-- In 1983 a revered Muslim leader, Mufti Sheikh Sa'ad e-Din el'Alami of Jerusalem, issued a fatwa (an order of divine deliverance) promising an eternal place in paradise to any Muslim assassin who would kill President Hafiz al-Assad of Syria.
-- Sikhs want to create a separate theocracy, Khalistan (Land of the Pure), in the Punjab region of India. Many heed the late extremist preacher Jarnail Bhindranwale, who taught his followers that they have a "religious duty to send opponents to h3ll." Throughout the 1980s they sporadically murdered Hindus to accomplish this goal. In 1984, after Sikh guards riddled prime minister Indira Gandhi with 50 bullets, Hindus went on a rampage that killed 5,000 Sikhs in three days. Mobs dragged Sikhs from homes, stores, buses and trains, chopping and pounding them to death. Some were burned alive; boys were castrated.
-- In 1984 Shi'ite fanatics who killed and tortured Americans on a hijacked Kuwaiti airliner at Tehran Airport said they did it "for the pleasure of God."
Obviously, people who think religion is a force for good are looking only at Dr. Jekyll and ignoring Mr. Hyde. They don't see the superstitious savagery pervading both history and current events.
During the past three centuries, religion gradually lost its power over life in Europe and America, and church horrors ended in the West. But the poison lingered. The Nazi Holocaust was rooted in centuries of religious hate. Historian Dagobert Runes said the long era of church persecution killed three and a half million Jews -- and Hitler's Final Solution was a secular continuation. Meanwhile, faith remains potent in the Third World, where it still produces familiar results.
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  #126  
Old 06-26-2012, 07:57 PM
Miguel Cervantes Miguel Cervantes is offline
 
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Which author are you talking about?
Did you not read the linked article in the OP of this thread?
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Old 06-26-2012, 09:13 PM
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Did you not read the linked article in the OP of this thread?
Yes I did, almost 20 days ago, and I was thrown off track when you brought it up during the conversation we today.
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  #128  
Old 06-27-2012, 09:30 PM
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“And if an Atheist accepts 1st amendment rights for religious protection under the constitution does that make Atheism a religion?”

The First Amendment, in case you haven’t read it lately, states, “ Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for the redress of grievances.”

So what this says, quite plainly, is that this is NOT a Christian nation. Y’all are free to practice whatever version of idol-worship you see fit, and we’ll let you, but you may not legislate your own thoughts into the law for anyone else. “ . . . No law respecting an establishment of religion, . . . “ means just that – not having a religion is called objectivity, and objectivity is not in and of itself a religion. Nice try to warp the facts though. The part about “ . . . or prohibiting the free exercise thereof . . . “ is not, in the context of the balance of the document, a pure protection of religion – the free exercise of your idol-worship is subject to a set of conditions, and unlike in medieval times we held out the option of not allowing anyone to hide from the law by taking refuge in their church – we’ll enter your temple and drag you out without losing a moment of sleep. Your ‘religious protection’ is conditional on your religion also obeying the lawful authority of the non-religious laws of the land, rather than only those laws contained in your own imaginative and fictitious Book.

I guess that makes Objectivity (which you prefer to call Atheism) somewhat less than a religion, and actually an anti-religion, designed to keep the more zealous among you from trying to force everyone to see things your way. Odd, huh? They had your number even then.

“The act of aggressively and religiously attacking, working against, striving to abolish all of those that do believe, is a religion.”

Again, nice rhetoric, but is this anything more than paranoia? Who, exactly, is, “ . . . striving to abolish all of those that do believe . . . ?” Got any credible thoughts? Granted, the various believers are striving actively to wipe EACH OTHER out, and are taking down thousands of innocents with them. But this looks from the outside like little more than gang warfare, and if you’d limit it to each other, and leave the rest of us out of it we might actually encourage it. The fewer of you there are the better. But all the Objective Non-Believers (Atheists) are doing is sitting by the sidelines and pointing out to you how very silly you look. We’re not killing anyone. If our criticism gets under your skin and provokes a paranoia and fuels a persecution complex, as though WE are the ones striving for total control, then perhaps you have something worthy of feeling guilty about. Not our problem.

“History proves nothing of the sort and I challenge you to lend credibility to your statement. “

I do not remember that the statement included ‘violence,’ though in the end that is often the result, especially where the three ‘dominant’ religions are concerned. You haven’t demonstrated that even the minority, ‘peaceful’ religions do not also try everything within their power to spread, in an attempt to become dominant. History, and current truth demonstrates that to be the case. Attempting to find an exception is little more than weaseling and denial of the overwhelming truth of the behaviors of religions, which have paralleled those of governments, kings, emperors and pharaohs – ideology is immune to truth, and represents nothing more than a thirst for power and control – largely a quest for wealth, as the impressively expensive, gold and gem encrusted entrapments of religions invariably display. Try it out – stand inside your cathedral, surrounded by millions of dollars worth of trappings, and explain aloud your humility, and dedication to the poverty and common-man appeal of your pulpit-teaching. See anything wrong with this contrast?

Don’t be blind, and please don’t come into THIS forum and be silly – religion, by definition, is governing. Telling you that is not creating a new religion, as you accuse – it is merely telling you. Nobody needs to ‘abolish’ belief – it has done that all by itself, every single time throughout all of history, simply by running out of credibility and the means to control the ‘believers’ from the bully-pulpit. In other words – they learned better than the elders taught, and walked. Thinking it won’t happen to your own congregation is foolish.

(BTW – bullethead – post #125 – WOW! Excellent homework!)
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  #129  
Old 07-20-2012, 11:24 PM
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(BTW bullethead post #125 WOW! Excellent homework!)
Yes and a complete waste of time. Don't even bother next time bullet. They just want you to waste your energy.
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Old 07-21-2012, 08:40 AM
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Yeagh I'll be the first to say it. None of those in bullets post were real christians.
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