three way switch, 1. DIY guy, 0.

GA native · Dec 28, 2017

I'm hoping someone who knows, can lead me down the path a little.

I've got these two 3 way switches on a light circuit spanning two rooms. As in you turn on one switch, and the lights in both rooms turn on. My guess is it was one long room, until a wall was put up in the middle.

I want to eliminate the two light, three way switch circuit. And replace it with two separate circuits, on separate single pole switches. Rooms a and b, with circuits a and b.

So,
I roughed in a new 14/2 circuit to a new box to hang a fan in room a. I pulled the switch out of the wall, and identified the hot leg with my multimeter. I identified my traveler wire (white), and put it aside. Into my single pole switch, I attached the hot leg, and I attached my new circuit to the other side of the switch. My white wire from the new circuit, I tied into the common. The traveler is still set aside.

Now in my mind, this should have worked. But it don't. I took my multimeter and clamped the black wire to the hot leg. With the meter set on 200v AC, I touched the red lead to ground. I got 121v. I touch the red lead to common, and I get nothing. So is the common wire back to the breaker box open? What am I missing here?

lagrangedave · Dec 28, 2017

Your common (white) either needs to be inserted into both sides of the switch or tied together separately with a wire nut. I am not an electrician.

Jim Baker · Dec 28, 2017

I have wired many circuits but without being there to determine how the circuits are made up I would suggest you get some help.

But if you have a new service wire coming into the ceiling box. You should attach the common wire to the fixture terminal. Attach the hot wire (black) to the white wire to the switch. Connect the black wire from the switch to the hot wire or terminal of the fixture. Then attach the white and black wire in the switch box to the single pole switch. Attach all bare ground wires. Wire nuts on the ends of any unused wires in switch box and ceiling box.

GA native · Dec 29, 2017

I see it's hard to explain this stuff over the interwebz. But as I see it, the three options before me are:

Run a new wire to the breaker box.
Tap the common wire in the outlet next to the switch.
Call a sparky to sort this mess out.

The obvious answer is the one that will run several hundred dollars. I've just never run into this problem of the neutral wire being open. And was wondering if it is because of the three way switch.

NE GA Pappy · Dec 29, 2017

is your power running into the switch box or the ceiling fixture?

GA native · Dec 29, 2017

NE GA Pappy said:
is your power running into the switch box or the ceiling fixture?

I've got a black wire that is hot, running into the switch box. The neutral wire running with it is an open circuit. So the power may be sourced from the ceiling boxes, with the neutral leg left open. That hadn't occurred to me.

I think I should just bypass that hot mess and run a new wire back to the breaker. Another 50' of 14/2 is $20.

GA native · Dec 29, 2017

Thanks Pappy. You threw the bread crumbs that showed me the way.

The ceiling box in front of the breaker box, is where the circuit starts. Sparky left the neutral wire in the switch circuit disconnected. I understand how three way switches work now.

So. I have the room in the box for a breaker. I'm going to run a new circuit and terminate that mess behind the drop ceiling.

Thanks y'all. Sometimes I need to think out loud.

dwhee87 · Dec 29, 2017

3-way switches are my arch-enemies.

notnksnemor · Dec 29, 2017

Good news is it's AC.
It will let go of you 60 times a second.

GA native · Dec 29, 2017

dwhee87 said:
3-way switches are my arch-enemies.

I get it now. I've been staring at schematics for a couple of days. But when I exposed the wiring, and saw it in real life, it made sense to me.

I'm still 0-1 v 3 way switches since I'm tapping a new circuit off the box.

Thought about just tapping my neutral from the nearest circuit. Thought about just tying into the ground circuit. Thought about stripping back that neutral in the light box, but the wires are too short to fiddle with. Thought about a single white 14 ga wire to the neutral bus in the panel. That would be the quickest and cheapest fix. Still thinking about it.

But a fresh circuit is cleaner. And the next guy won't be scratching his head over what I did.

GA native · Dec 29, 2017

NOTNKSNEMOR said:
Good news is it's AC.
It will let go of you 60 times a second.

It only hertz 120 times per second. :rofl:

CHANDLECTRIC · Jan 3, 2018

This can be done easily, Call a real electrical contractor and they will get you going real quick and correct.

GA native · Jan 4, 2018

CHANDLECTRIC said:
This can be done easily, Call a real electrical contractor and they will get you going real quick and correct.

Running a new 15 amp circuit from the box is my fix. For less than $50.

What is the proper fix? Not trying to be a smart alec or anything, just wanting to learn.

Crakajak · Jan 4, 2018

GA native said:
Running a new 15 amp circuit from the box is my fix. For less than $50.

What is the proper fix? Not trying to be a smart alec or anything, just wanting to learn.

Some insurance companies have issues with systems that can cause fires being installed or repaired by the homeowners.
You may know what your doing,but someone MIGHT think they know know and burn the house down.
Its all about liability.
Licenced electricans carry insurance for this reason.

treemanjohn · Jan 4, 2018

I'm not an electrician. Take it for what it's worth

If done properly the white (neutral) should never be running into the switch. They should all be wirenutted and tucked away. Switches are made to interrupt the hot leg only. Your red wire SHOULD be your traveller from switch 1 to switch 2. On switch 2 the black wire from your load (lights, fans......) will be your common.

GA native · Jan 4, 2018

The traveler to switch one is white. I tested all of the original wiring in the box. There was no common circuit in the switch box.

Information not provided so far:
I am not the first one to fiddle with the wiring here. The basement was finished by a homeowner. The lamp in room A was removed from the circuit; replaced with a pull chain lamp. Both legs from the lampbox, in room A, were tapped and run into other parts of the basement. The switch in room A, still controlled the lights in room B (fancy!).

SGADawg · Jan 4, 2018

I would have to see what wires are run where to solve your concern. 3-ways are easy to wire, changing them to single pole and splitting lights, not so much.

For those of you wanting to know how to wire 3-way switches, here are the steps.
1. Hot wire from source to the "common" terminal of one 3-way switch.
2. Wire from the "common" terminal of the other 3-way switch to the light(s).
3. 2 traveler wires from the remaining terminals of one switch to the remaining terminals of the other switch. It doesn't matter which traveler wires goes on which terminal. The "common" terminal has already been used.
4. Connect the neutral wire from the source to the light(s).

If you need control from 3 or more locations, any number of 4-way switches can be wired in using only the traveler wires. 4-ways must be located between the 3-ways in the circuit.

Also,a white wire can be used as a traveler wire. In some cases a white wire can even be used as a"hot" wire as long as it is identified by wrapping a piece of black tape around it near the end of the insulation or clearly marking it in some other way.

JohnK · Jan 21, 2018

Switches ain't got nothing to do with neutrals. The white should be the hot going to the 3 way. You still need a neutral at the fixture. If you had a neutral in the switch box it would be under a wire nut not a terminal.

NE GA Pappy · Jan 21, 2018

if you are putting the power into the switch box, here's how I would wire it.

1. run power wire to switch box, hook black to common terminal on the switch, tie ground to ground, and white to the white wire in a 14-3 w/ground travel wire. Hook the Red and black in the remaining screws on the switch. It doesn't matter which colors go to which screws.

2. Hook up the travel wire in the second switch red to one screw/black to the other. Tie the white wire to a white wire that runs to your fixture. Tie the grounds together. Take the black wire in the wire running to your fixture to the common terminal on the second switch.

3. tie the black to black in your fixture, white to white, and connect your grounds.

4. congratulate yourself on installing a 3 way switch.

next weeks lesson is a 4 way switch.

the final exam will be wiring a fixture by feeding the power to the fixture box, running 8 switches where the fixture can be turned off/on at any switch, while powering a optional switched receptacle from the light circuit. you will have 2 hours to complete the wiring of said circuit and terminating all connections. All switch covers must be installed. Points will be deducted for cracked/missing switch/receptacle covers.

GA native · Jan 22, 2018

NE GA Pappy said:
if you are putting the power into the switch box, here's how I would wire it.

1. run power wire to switch box, hook black to common terminal on the switch, tie ground to ground, and white to the white wire in a 14-3 w/ground travel wire. Hook the Red and black in the remaining screws on the switch. It doesn't matter which colors go to which screws.

2. Hook up the travel wire in the second switch red to one screw/black to the other. Tie the white wire to a white wire that runs to your fixture. Tie the grounds together. Take the black wire in the wire running to your fixture to the common terminal on the second switch.

3. tie the black to black in your fixture, white to white, and connect your grounds.

4. congratulate yourself on installing a 3 way switch.

next weeks lesson is a 4 way switch.

the final exam will be wiring a fixture by feeding the power to the fixture box, running 8 switches where the fixture can be turned off/on at any switch, while powering a optional switched receptacle from the light circuit. you will have 2 hours to complete the wiring of said circuit and terminating all connections. All switch covers must be installed. Points will be deducted for cracked/missing switch/receptacle covers.

The job is done.

I could have run a jump wire to the neutral up there in the lamp box. but I really didn't want to mess with those old slightly cooked wires.
So,
I just popped a new 15 amp breaker in the subpanel, and ran a fresh 14/2 wire to the switch. White to white, ground to ground, and the black wires through the switch.

And I'll do the same thing in room B. When I shut off that breaker powering the 3 way switch, the whole basement goes dark. It seems to be in my best interest to reduce the load on that circuit anyway.

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