I have read on the " Do you have to be good thread" , people throwing out their op's on what they think, well, it's not what you or I think. It's what does the LORD say !!! It was answered in the first posts after the thread started. Next,it turned into a loss of salvation thread. Now I know where I'm going when I die and you can too!!! Heres the simple answer, do you trust GOD and take his word for it, or not ? I'm not relying on my op, I'm relying on Gods word. Are you calling God a liar, you are if you say he does'nt mean what he says, KJV 1611 AV, Num. 23:19 God is not a man,that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good? Now, just stop and think about this a while, Romans and Gal. covers salvation[doctrine] I would also reccommend studying up on the doctrines of Sanctification,Justification, Regeneration, Adoption, and Imputation as well as all the other "tions". This is not Modern Doctrine, it can be traced all the way back to Antioch !! Learn to rightly divide the word of God 2 Tim. 2:15 Don't run to Matt. 5,6,7,24, or 25, Hebrews 6 or 10, Acts 2 or James 2 and last but not least Gal. or Rev. to refute, rightly divide and take God at his word. I know the truth is never popular John 17:17
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Assurance of Salvation
- Thread starter barryl
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centerpin fan
Senior Member
Actually, it's "what does the Lord mean". As St. Hilary of Poitiers once said, "scripture is not in the reading, it's in the understanding".
Differences in Christian beliefs stem from differences in understanding (amongst other things.)
Artfuldodger
Senior Member
I'll run to Luke , Luke 12:46
The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers.
Luke 8:13
They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.
The sins that you commit AFTER baptism are the ones that are not paid for. When you accept Jesus Christ as your Savior, your sins are washed clean. No need for redemption for anything you have done in the past. Now, that does not apply to things you might do in the FUTURE, there is only one Baptism, so a 2nd Baptism later in life is not possible. To stay in the Grace of God we need Redemption if we sin after Baptism.
For the OSAS to be true, you would have to believe that you can be Baptized at age 12, live your next 80 years sinning every day, Break all of the commandments every day, for 80 years, never repent, never Pray, never attend Church, never do any good for anyone, then die and go straight to Heaven. If you can accept that, you can accept the OSAS Theology.
The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers.
Luke 8:13
They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.
The sins that you commit AFTER baptism are the ones that are not paid for. When you accept Jesus Christ as your Savior, your sins are washed clean. No need for redemption for anything you have done in the past. Now, that does not apply to things you might do in the FUTURE, there is only one Baptism, so a 2nd Baptism later in life is not possible. To stay in the Grace of God we need Redemption if we sin after Baptism.
For the OSAS to be true, you would have to believe that you can be Baptized at age 12, live your next 80 years sinning every day, Break all of the commandments every day, for 80 years, never repent, never Pray, never attend Church, never do any good for anyone, then die and go straight to Heaven. If you can accept that, you can accept the OSAS Theology.
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StriperAddict
Senior Member
This is wrong on so many levels. The main one being we "got saved by grace, but we need to live by law to keep it". At least that's what the above seems to say. Correct me if I got that wrong, but if not, good grief, no wonder the church of Christ is powerless!! They start in grace/the Spirit, and then live in the power of "themselves" to keep grace!
"Having begun in the Spirit, are ye now perfected by the flesh (or law?)"??
Sorry, saved by grace and kept by grace is brought to mankind by only one final sacrifice by the Lord Jesus.
Should I sin again after my salvation (which I and you and every believer has done), we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous, who must needs NEVER die again, and since we are "crucified" with Him, we will never die again spiritually either.
And as to the nonsense about the sinning like a truck driver after grace... well, each believer was born again with a new nature, that nature, the new man, never wants to go against the will of God ever again. Check Romans 7 on that... that chapter is where Paul found out where the power of sin still resides (on our bodies) , and where the victory resides, in our soul and spirit... made perfect by the One offering of the body and blood of Christ, once for all!
If our future sins have to be "paid for" again, that makes a mockery of that one time death and resurrection of the Lord, because the scriptures teach us clearly that our past, present and future sins were ALL covered at the cross; Jesus can never die again.
Also see Rom 6: 1,2.
Artfuldodger
Senior Member
But if anyone does not have them, he is nearsighted and blind, and has forgotten that he has been cleansed from his past sins. (2 Pet 1:9)
When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your sinful nature, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins (Col 2:13)
All our sins were forgiven in a moment’s time when we got born again. If a Christian is afterwards deceived or yields to the devil’s temptations to sin, the following is given as a remedy:
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. (1 John 1:9)
When a Christian sins, we ask for forgiveness.
When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your sinful nature, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins (Col 2:13)
All our sins were forgiven in a moment’s time when we got born again. If a Christian is afterwards deceived or yields to the devil’s temptations to sin, the following is given as a remedy:
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. (1 John 1:9)
When a Christian sins, we ask for forgiveness.
A. D., Luke 12:46 lord or servant, not applicable to you or me with a shoe horn !!! 2nd paragraph, Baptism? Acts 2:38 or 2:4, not nice !! 3rd paragraph, Eph. 2:8-10, and one of your fav"s 1 Tim. 2:5 now go study Imputation{Doctrine} 2 Tim. 2:15-learn to study. Cp, point taken, but I hold in my hands the very word of God, thats my final authority !!
Artfuldodger
Senior Member
But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart. If your right eye causes you to sin, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into -He11. (Mat 5:28,29)
Could this person above be a Christian?
For if you forgive men when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. But if you do not forgive men their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins. (Mat 6:14,15)
But how is this possible, Jesus died on the cross for my sins. My future sins are already forgiven.
If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God. (Heb 10:26, 27)
Make every effort to enter through the narrow door, because many, I tell you, will try to enter and will not be able to. (Luke 13:24)
Could this person above be a Christian?
For if you forgive men when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. But if you do not forgive men their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins. (Mat 6:14,15)
But how is this possible, Jesus died on the cross for my sins. My future sins are already forgiven.
If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God. (Heb 10:26, 27)
Make every effort to enter through the narrow door, because many, I tell you, will try to enter and will not be able to. (Luke 13:24)
Artfuldodger
Senior Member
I'll study Imputation and you are right 1 Tim. 2:5 is one of my favorites.
centerpin fan
Senior Member
... as do we all, but you can look through any of the threads on:
OSAS
baptism
free will
tongues
alcohol
Freemasonry
... and see that everybody is using that same final authority to argue different positions.
Artfuldodger
Senior Member
I wasn't Baptised as in Acts 2:38 but if one receives the Holy Spirit why do I need the gift of "tongues?
hobbs27
Senior Member
Nailed it again Centerpin...You seem to be the voice of reason on these threads.
Artfuldodger
Senior Member
What does the Lord say or what does the Lord mean is the same thing. The Lord means what he says.
I agree it's the differences in understanding but how do we reconcile these differences? Could we somehow reconcile the original church?
We could all reunite to the Orthodox Church or whatever the original Church is.
Perhaps we could have a new council at Nicaea.
Artfuldodger
Senior Member
Barryl, i've been studying Imputation and it is an interesting concept of looking at salvation like accounting if you will. We are born with a debt(sin), our account is wiped clean(cross), and our account is given a credit.
The credit part, naturally is what i'm having trouble with.
Can you list some verses about this credit?
1gr8bldr
Senior Member
Assurance is a matter of faith. If you doubt, you are essentially asking Jesus to come back and die again for you. He died "once" and he is coming back, but not to do it over for those who doubt, but to take with him those who are his. See Heb 6:6, 9:28. But is faith blind? No, faith comes from a careful evaluation. Do you trust your own merit? or would you rather take hold of the hope held out in the gospel. "How shall we escape if we ignore such a great salvation".
JB0704
I Gots Goats
Ronnie T
Ol' Retired Mod
I've always been amazed at some people's/group's preoccupation with this subject.
It certainly wasn't a subject that any of the apostles or disciples taught in book of Acts.
The subject itself is not taught in Romans or any of the other writings.
OSAS is a phrase I never ever speak or hear until I get on this forum. I don't study it in the Bible, and I don't need it to find comfort and assurance of my own salvation.
Jesus is the Lord of my life, that's why I know I'm going to heaven.
"Assurance of Salvation??" Someplace in America tonight, there's bound to be small groups of people gathered together, drinking, using drugs, dealing with hangovers, etc. At some point they'll get into a discussion of God and religion. At least a few of them, thought they've never even accepted Jesus as their Lord, will claim they are "certain" they are 'as saved as anybody else'.
Your "assurance" means nothing to God unless it's based upon Christ as your Lord.
Remember what Jesus said: "Not all who say unto me Lord Lord will enter into the kingdom of God, but he that......... what now, what did he say?..... You know what he said.
No one will ever enter heaven because they worked themselves there.
No one will ever be in heaven because of OSASed.
They'll be there because Jesus was the Lord of their life and they had become His disciple.
It certainly wasn't a subject that any of the apostles or disciples taught in book of Acts.
The subject itself is not taught in Romans or any of the other writings.
OSAS is a phrase I never ever speak or hear until I get on this forum. I don't study it in the Bible, and I don't need it to find comfort and assurance of my own salvation.
Jesus is the Lord of my life, that's why I know I'm going to heaven.
"Assurance of Salvation??" Someplace in America tonight, there's bound to be small groups of people gathered together, drinking, using drugs, dealing with hangovers, etc. At some point they'll get into a discussion of God and religion. At least a few of them, thought they've never even accepted Jesus as their Lord, will claim they are "certain" they are 'as saved as anybody else'.
Your "assurance" means nothing to God unless it's based upon Christ as your Lord.
Remember what Jesus said: "Not all who say unto me Lord Lord will enter into the kingdom of God, but he that......... what now, what did he say?..... You know what he said.
No one will ever enter heaven because they worked themselves there.
No one will ever be in heaven because of OSASed.
They'll be there because Jesus was the Lord of their life and they had become His disciple.
Ronnie T
Ol' Retired Mod
Specifically???????
Ronnie T
Ol' Retired Mod
Here's a good one from Gal. (Speaking to Christians)
Galatians 5:4: 'You are separated from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by Law, you have fallen from grace."
centerpin fan
Senior Member
Aw, shucks.
....or sarcasm, depending on the day
Sarcasm is reason's evil twin.
