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  #1  
Old 01-06-2018, 10:24 PM
Banjo Picker Banjo Picker is offline
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Default The Judges

(1) God the Father is spoken of as the judge of all men (Heb. 12:23, 24; 13:4; Rev. 6:10; Acts 17:30, 31; Rom. 2:12-16).
(2) God the Son is also spoken of as the judge of the world (John 5:19-27; Acts 10:42; 17:30, 31; 2 Tim. 4:8; Rev. 19:11).
(3) Both the Father and the Son will be judge (Acts 17:31; Rom. 2:16).
(4) God the Father will judge by His Son (Acts 17:31; Rom. 2:16).
(5) God the Father will decree; the Son will execute (John 5:22-27; Rom. 1:32-2:5).
(6) The saints will have part in this judgment (1 Cor. 6:2, 3; Rev. 3:21).
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  #2  
Old 01-07-2018, 07:49 AM
marketgunner marketgunner is offline
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The Father will not be judged by the Son. Period

Additionally
The Father will not judge a man.

John 5:22
For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son

The Son will not judge a man

John 8:15
Ye judge after the flesh; I judge no man

Who are they gonna judge?
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  #3  
Old 01-07-2018, 11:07 AM
Banjo Picker Banjo Picker is offline
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Default Rev. 20:11-15

Quote:
Originally Posted by marketgunner View Post
The Father will not be judged by the Son. Period

Additionally
The Father will not judge a man.

John 5:22
For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son

The Son will not judge a man

John 8:15
Ye judge after the flesh; I judge no man

Who are they gonna judge?
Guess you don't believe Rev. 20:11-15 then, for it says ever man will be judged. I believe the Scriptures mean what they say and are true.
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  #4  
Old 01-07-2018, 12:42 PM
marketgunner marketgunner is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Banjo Picker View Post
Guess you don't believe Rev. 20:11-15 then, for it says ever man will be judged. I believe the Scriptures mean what they say and are true.
Why do you think it says "man" ? It does not.

Rev 20:15

And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
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  #5  
Old 01-11-2018, 06:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marketgunner View Post
The Father will not be judged by the Son. Period

Additionally
The Father will not judge a man.

John 5:22
For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son

The Son will not judge a man

John 8:15
Ye judge after the flesh; I judge no man

Who are they gonna judge?

I wondered why you said this:

Quote:
The Father will not be judged by the Son. Period
Which is true.

But then I saw in the OP this:

Quote:
God the Father will judge by His Son (Acts 17:31; Rom. 2:16).

And I wondered if perhaps this was mistaken to mean (as I am sure Banjo did not mean) "God the Father will be judged by His Son.

Is that what happened?

Instead of seeing God the Father's standard of judgment is the Son, or, in poorer terms, will use the Son to judge; it was misread?


And I would like to ask this now. Since we know God's judgments are always perfect in all things, might we enter into it now?

There seems a thing that thinks this way "I know judgment is coming, I know all shall be exposed to its deepest roots and nothing done except by the Christ of God, and through the Christ of God shall stand..." Might not that thing awaken to a truth?

"Judge me now!"

What good thing will God withhold from His children?

We are surrounded by enemies. And even at those times their manifestation may seem so pressing as to almost forget "we wrestle not with flesh and blood", we nevertheless, are reminded. Our battle is found in their cleverness and trickery and our struggle for light is made against their deceit and cunning to hide it. To obscure in sight what we know in spirit to be all of that which is real. And no man knows perfectly at which points he is succumbing...or has succumbed.

But our resource is always the greater. These things would have us live in a fear, pressing us in our not knowing of all. But we do know this, that above all else is found in the reality of Jesus' Christ's resurrection from the dead, and God's seating Him upon the Throne..."God's judgments are perfect". We can, can we not, call down a friendly fire now...in the midst of battle that light abound even upon our very own position having this resolve "If I perish, I perish" but that God's glory might be seen, above all else. I really don't know if enemies are vanquished any other way...except through that participation seen in Jesus Christ.

Judge me now Lord, that I may not be found wanting...later.


How free to live are those are those finding themselves dead in the Lord!

May all grace abounding be found in us.
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Last edited by Israel; 01-11-2018 at 07:03 AM.
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  #6  
Old 01-07-2018, 01:08 PM
marketgunner marketgunner is offline
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if the Father does not judge man and Jesus said He does not judge man, yet we are condemned already, how is it we are judged and condemned?

John 3:18


He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
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  #7  
Old 01-07-2018, 08:09 PM
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John 3:18
"There is no judgment against anyone who believes in him. But anyone who does not believe in him has already been judged for not believing in God's one and only Son.

That's a bit confusing.
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  #8  
Old 01-08-2018, 10:43 AM
marketgunner marketgunner is offline
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We were all already condemned,
We are remain in condemnation unless we believe.

Jhn 3:36

He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

We are not condemned because we do not believe, but are not redeemed because we do not believe and remain condemned.
Remember, we were not condemned as men but spirits, our spirits must be redeemed, if not nothing changes since we remain in condemnation.
Being human is the first part of redeemption if we truly are spiritual sinners.
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  #9  
Old 01-08-2018, 06:32 PM
Banjo Picker Banjo Picker is offline
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Default That Saints will be judged for sins committed in this life.

"For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that EVERY ONE may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or BAD" (2 cor. 5:10, 11; Rom. 14:10, 11; Matt. 12:36; 16:27).
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  #10  
Old 01-08-2018, 06:48 PM
Banjo Picker Banjo Picker is offline
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Default The Bible does not teach a general judgment for both the righteous and the wicked.

The Bible teaches that the righteous will be resurrected and will reign 1000 years before the wicked are resurrected and judged (Rev. 20:1-15). The righteous will be judged and rewarded at the judgment seat of Christ in Heaven before they come back with Christ to reign (2 Cor. 10:9-11; Rom. 14:10,11). Saints will already know their rewards and positions in the eternal kingdom before they come back to the Earth with Christ to reign, for when they come they will be given such positions (Matt. 16:27). Anyone can see that there is a 1000 years between the end of this age when Christ comes (as in Matt. 16:27; 24:29-31; 25:31-46) and the end of the next age, the Millennium (Rev. 20); so there is at least this much time between the two judgments.
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  #11  
Old 01-08-2018, 08:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Banjo Picker View Post
The Bible teaches that the righteous will be resurrected and will reign 1000 years before the wicked are resurrected and judged (Rev. 20:1-15). The righteous will be judged and rewarded at the judgment seat of Christ in Heaven before they come back with Christ to reign (2 Cor. 10:9-11; Rom. 14:10,11). Saints will already know their rewards and positions in the eternal kingdom before they come back to the Earth with Christ to reign, for when they come they will be given such positions (Matt. 16:27). Anyone can see that there is a 1000 years between the end of this age when Christ comes (as in Matt. 16:27; 24:29-31; 25:31-46) and the end of the next age, the Millennium (Rev. 20); so there is at least this much time between the two judgments.
The righteous will be resurrected, go to Heaven, face Judgement, then return to the earth with Christ. Why couldn't they get judged on the earth after their resurrection? Can we assume Christ came to earth before they were resurrected for the return trip with them back to Heaven?
Christ will come to the earth for the resurrection, return to Heaven with the Saints, judge them, give them their "positions", and return back to the earth with the Saints for the 1,000 year reign?

Where were these righteous dead people before their resurrection?
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  #12  
Old 01-11-2018, 06:54 PM
Banjo Picker Banjo Picker is offline
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Default For post# 10

Quote:
Originally Posted by Artfuldodger View Post
The righteous will be resurrected, go to Heaven, face Judgement, then return to the earth with Christ. Why couldn't they get judged on the earth after their resurrection? Can we assume Christ came to earth before they were resurrected for the return trip with them back to Heaven?
Christ will come to the earth for the resurrection, return to Heaven with the Saints, judge them, give them their "positions", and return back to the earth with the Saints for the 1,000 year reign?

Where were these righteous dead people before their resurrection?
THE SOULS OF THE RIGHTEOUS AT PHYSICAL DEATH BEFORE THE RESURRECTION OF CHRIST were held captive by the devil in paradise in the lower parts of the Earth (Heb. 2:14, 15; Eph. 4:7-11). Both the righteous and the wicked were in the same underworld of departed spirits with a great gulf between the two departments (Luke 16:19-31). This is why the penitent thief went with Christ into paradise the day of the crucifixion (Luke 23:43). This paradise was located in the lower parts of the Earth or the heart of the Earth (Matt. 12:40; Eph. 4:7-11). Christ descended into He11 and liberated all these righteous souls and took them to Heaven with Him when He ascended on high (Eph. 4:7-11; Ps. 16:10; Acts 2:25-36). Now when a righteous person dies his body goes back to dust again and he himself goes to be with Christ in Heaven (2 Cor. 5:8; Eph. 3:14, 15; Phil. 1:21-23; Heb. 12:23; Rev. 6:9-11). At the rapture these righteous souls in Heaven will come back with Christ and enter new bodies (1 Thess. 4:13-16; 1 Cor. 15:23, 35-38; Phil. 3:20, 21). The wicked dead will remain dead until the Millennium is over and then they will be resurrected and judged and then sent to eternal He11 (Rev. 20:4-15).

THE SOULS OF THE WICKED DEADAT PHYSICAL DEATH go into He11 or the torment part of the underworld of departed spirits, and are in a conscious state of torment until the end of the Millennium when their bodies will be resurrected and they will come out of He11 to enter their bodies, be judged, and be cast into the lake of fire forever (Luke 16:19-31; 2 Pet. 2:9; Rev. 20:11-15). This state of the wicked dead is not purgatorial in any sense. There is no such thing as purgatory mentioned in Scripture. Men will be resurrected either righteous or wicked as the case may be and this is determined by how they have lived and died here (Rev. 22:11). The righteous are in a state of bliss and the wicked are in a state of torment in the intermediate state. The perfect and eternal bliss and rewards for the righteous will not be given until the resurrection of their bodies and at the judgment seat of Christ. The utter misery and complete punishment of the wicked according to there deeds will not begin until their resurrection and judgment. Both classes will be punished and rewarded according to the deeds done in the body.

Hope This helps you !
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  #13  
Old 01-09-2018, 10:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Banjo Picker View Post
The Bible teaches that the righteous will be resurrected and will reign 1000 years before the wicked are resurrected and judged (Rev. 20:1-15). The righteous will be judged and rewarded at the judgment seat of Christ in Heaven before they come back with Christ to reign (2 Cor. 10:9-11; Rom. 14:10,11). Saints will already know their rewards and positions in the eternal kingdom before they come back to the Earth with Christ to reign, for when they come they will be given such positions (Matt. 16:27). Anyone can see that there is a 1000 years between the end of this age when Christ comes (as in Matt. 16:27; 24:29-31; 25:31-46) and the end of the next age, the Millennium (Rev. 20); so there is at least this much time between the two judgments.

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  #14  
Old 01-09-2018, 09:25 PM
Banjo Picker Banjo Picker is offline
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Default The Subjects Judged

Wicked men of the whole human race except the beast, false prophet, the goat nations, tares, etc., will be the subjects judged (Acts 17:31; Rom. 3:6; Rev.20:11-15). That those judged at the judgment of the nations will not be judged at the final judgment seems clear from Matt. 13:30; 39-43, 49, 50; 24:51; 25:30, 41, 46; Rev. 14:9-11; 19:20, 21; 20:10). These already will have had sentence pronounced upon them a thousand years before the final judgment, so it would not be necessary to judge them again. The ones judged at this this judgment will be the wicked dead of all ages, whereas those judged at the judgment of the nations will be the living nations on Earth at the return of Christ to set up His eternal Kingdom.
The angels "that sinned" and " are now bound" in Tartarus will also be loosed from their long confinement in chains and be judged at this judgment (2 Pet. 2:4; Jude 6, 7).
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  #15  
Old 01-08-2018, 09:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marketgunner View Post
We were all already condemned,
We are remain in condemnation unless we believe.

Jhn 3:36

He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

We are not condemned because we do not believe, but are not redeemed because we do not believe and remain condemned.
Remember, we were not condemned as men but spirits, our spirits must be redeemed, if not nothing changes since we remain in condemnation.
Being human is the first part of redeemption if we truly are spiritual sinners.
We were already condemned, already judged. "condemned already"

I don't know it sounds like one of those God working beyond the bounds of time things. Past tense "already condemned."
Maybe not. I may be looking at it wrong. I just wish it wasn't past tense.
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  #16  
Old 01-09-2018, 09:02 AM
marketgunner marketgunner is offline
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look a it this way and see if it will start t make since.

You were condemned as a sinful spirit( the soul). Humanity is the way for one death to apply to all for salvation. We (our souls)can be restored to as we were by redeemption. If not we continue in the judged state (death row) that we as sinners have been convicted.

Humanity is the only chance to be redeemed.
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  #17  
Old 01-09-2018, 10:37 PM
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Wouldn't it be better to say the two groups being judged are for the believers and non-believers?
Instead of the righteous and wicked or the good and evil?

Considering none of us are righteous and we still sin. So the
Sheep and the Goats are the believers and non-believers more than the Good and the Evil.

Salvation is not based on works yet the judgements are. Maybe even a Christian has to be judged for his evil ways. But is the Hindu judged for his goodness?
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  #18  
Old 01-09-2018, 10:46 PM
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One more thought we often dwell on is where do all of these physically dead saints souls go until the resurrection for Judgement? I wouldn't think you could go to Heaven before being judged. Unless one gets judged on an indiviual basis prior to our physical resurrection.

Now take the other group. The physically dead non-believer souls. They can't die when they die if they are awaiting a physical resurrection and final judgement. They can't go to He!! unless they are judged on an individual bases at their physical death.
Their judgement is described as a "the day of judgement." Maybe their souls sleep.
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Old 01-11-2018, 07:38 AM
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neither verse says as implied in these two references

(Acts 17:31; Rom. 2:16).

Rom 2:16
In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.
Act 17:31
Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.
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  #20  
Old 01-11-2018, 10:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marketgunner View Post
neither verse says as implied in these two references

(Acts 17:31; Rom. 2:16).

Rom 2:16
In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.
Act 17:31
Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.
Did you think Banjo was saying God the Father will be judged by His Son as meaning the Father would judge his Son?

I think what Israel was saying is he doesn't think Banjo was implying that God would judge his Son but would judge through or by his Son.
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Old 01-11-2018, 11:39 AM
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I agree that is what the verses say is not as Banjo indicated.
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  #22  
Old 01-11-2018, 01:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marketgunner View Post
I agree that is what the verses say is not as Banjo indicated.
You're gonna have to show me. I don't see it in his first post #1?

"(4) God the Father will judge by His Son (Acts 17:31; Rom. 2:16)."

So you think he was indicating by this?
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  #23  
Old 01-11-2018, 06:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marketgunner View Post
I agree that is what the verses say is not as Banjo indicated.
That's not what I said you need to learn how to read It means they will both be the judges together at the same time doing the judging not judging one another ! ! !
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  #24  
Old 01-11-2018, 01:39 PM
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yes,

God the Father will not be judge by any one , especially God the Son,

Jesus is the standard we as men are judged by in Act's.
Same in Roman's, God judged the world by Jesus, the ordained man.
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Old 01-11-2018, 07:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marketgunner View Post
yes,

God the Father will not be judge by any one , especially God the Son,

Jesus is the standard we as men are judged by in Act's.
Same in Roman's, God judged the world by Jesus, the ordained man.

I am pretty sure that is what Banjo means...and meant.

God has set Jesus, who is all of light, even as He himself is (God the Father) to be that by which man sees...or is blinded. Works of darkness cannot stand when His light is revealed.

We see the force of light...even in the natural.

Radiation pressure - Wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radiation_pressure
The generation of radiation pressure results from the momentum property of photons, specifically, changing the momentum when incident radiation strikes a surface. The surface exerts a force on the photons in changing their momentum by Newton's Second Law. A reactive force is applied to the body by Newton's Third Law.


Transparency holds all hope. What opposes by seeking its own substance...is swept away. We have time to be rid of what once appeared useful ballast. And float free, in light.
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