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Old 04-04-2014, 05:04 PM
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Default silencer on muzzleloader

Georgia now allows silencers for hunting.

But silencers are expensive, and with a lot of paperwork and hassle involved in buying or making them and registering them with BATF.

So here's a question:

If somebody builds a silencer onto the barrel of a blackpowder firearm that's either a muzzle-loader or breech loader that doesn't use self-contained cartridges in any sort of case, and the silencer can't be removed from the gun barrel except by cutting or torching it off, is it really a silencer?

Keep in mind, a "silencer" has to either be ON a firearm (using the federal definition of that term) or it has to be CAPABLE OF being put on a FIREARM. A silencer that is permanently welded onto a muzzle-loader's steel barrel isn't going to be capable of being used on any other gun, is it? And the gun it's on is legally not considered a firearm, is it?

JUST FOOD FOR THOUGHT.

Two problems I see right away:

1-- If you possess a silencer, or silencer parts, before you attach those to the gun, that's illegal. Even if you build the silencer at noon on a certain day and by 2 p.m. it's welded to the muzzle, and all the baffles sealed in the can and not removable or user-serviceable. You'd be breaking the law as soon as the UPS delivery guy brought you that silencer tube, or as soon as you made the first "baffle" in your basement workshop. (HOWEVER, maybe a factory could build the gun barrels with the silencer, all on the same assembly line, and get around this Catch-22 from the feds' rules.)

2--- Baffles would tend to collect paper or cloth patching material, plastic sabots, etc. I think this would only work with a gun that had projectiles that were a perfect fit to the bore and didn't need any patching.
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Old 04-04-2014, 06:43 PM
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Personally, I think silencers on a M/L rifle should NOT be considered, much less USED! Muzzleloader and Black Powder shooting and hunting has already been desecrated by the allowance of "MODERN" inline rifles! Some things should be left to the PURITY of the SPORT! Daniel Boone and Davy Crockett, as well as all our forefathers along with them NEVER had "Supressors" and "Inline rifles"!!! ......Just MY 2 cents!!!
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Old 04-04-2014, 09:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whiteeagle View Post
Personally, I think silencers on a M/L rifle should NOT be considered, much less USED! Muzzleloader and Black Powder shooting and hunting has already been desecrated by the allowance of "MODERN" inline rifles! Some things should be left to the PURITY of the SPORT! Daniel Boone and Davy Crockett, as well as all our forefathers along with them NEVER had "Supressors" and "Inline rifles"!!! ......Just MY 2 cents!!!
I believe the inline was patented sometime around 1820, around the same time that caps were invented. In fact the system was intended to protect the fragile caps which I believe the earliest were made of paper. Anyone who owned a cap lock rifle may well have owned an inline.
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Old 04-06-2014, 12:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GunnSmokeer View Post
Georgia now allows silencers for hunting.

But silencers are expensive, and with a lot of paperwork and hassle involved in buying or making them and registering them with BATF.

So here's a question:

If somebody builds a silencer onto the barrel of a blackpowder firearm that's either a muzzle-loader or breech loader that doesn't use self-contained cartridges in any sort of case, and the silencer can't be removed from the gun barrel except by cutting or torching it off, is it really a silencer?

Keep in mind, a "silencer" has to either be ON a firearm (using the federal definition of that term) or it has to be CAPABLE OF being put on a FIREARM. A silencer that is permanently welded onto a muzzle-loader's steel barrel isn't going to be capable of being used on any other gun, is it? And the gun it's on is legally not considered a firearm, is it?

JUST FOOD FOR THOUGHT.

Two problems I see right away:

1-- If you possess a silencer, or silencer parts, before you attach those to the gun, that's illegal. Even if you build the silencer at noon on a certain day and by 2 p.m. it's welded to the muzzle, and all the baffles sealed in the can and not removable or user-serviceable. You'd be breaking the law as soon as the UPS delivery guy brought you that silencer tube, or as soon as you made the first "baffle" in your basement workshop. (HOWEVER, maybe a factory could build the gun barrels with the silencer, all on the same assembly line, and get around this Catch-22 from the feds' rules.)

2--- Baffles would tend to collect paper or cloth patching material, plastic sabots, etc. I think this would only work with a gun that had projectiles that were a perfect fit to the bore and didn't need any patching.
There probably is no BATF prohibition on building a silencer on a BP muzzleloading gun. At least BATF hasn't addressed the issue, and as a muzzleloader isn't considered a firearm by BATF, then you should be good to go. If you parse out all the rules BATF has to abide by, then you are probably good to go.

On the other hand BATF has issued an opinion that airgun silencers (paintball) that are permanently attached are legal (integral), but if the silencer is capable of being detached and attached to a firearm, it is illegal. The sand in the gears is that there is no definition of "capable of being detached." All silencers are capable of being detached somehow. GAMO for example markets an airgun with an integral suppressor that apparently has BATF approval (or at least hasn't drawn the attention of BATF).

I disagree that having the components to build a silencer is enough to bring down the wrath of BATF. I have the components to build a silencer. I have no intention of doing so, and have made no overt actions to do so, and so it would be very hard (impossible) for BATF to prove that I have the intent to produce a silencer.

Another twist is that muzzleloaders are considered firearms under Georgia state law. There is no state law that I know of against mere possession of a silencer, but that doesn't mean Deputy Barney in East Jesus knows that.

Here's an aside on the whole discussion.

http://www.informationweek.com/embar.../d-id/1052523?

So I think that in a very technical legal sense you could build an integral suppressor on a ML, but there are all sorts of potential pitfalls that make it sort of iffy, not the least being the ones inherent in loading BP and wads and all.
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Old 04-15-2014, 04:09 PM
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I remember looking into buying an MP5 from hard times armory, and they welded the silencers onto the gun. The silencer had to be listed on the tax stamp as well as it being a class 3 weapon, the only advantage was you only needed 200.00 for the stamp since they were together, but they were both listed.
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Old 04-29-2014, 08:37 PM
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The only thing I have to ask is, "why"?

It is sad to me that ga considers a scoped inline to be a muzzleloader at all but this is just yet another step in the wrong direction.
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Old 11-16-2017, 11:02 AM
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Well, Silencerco has taken my idea and run with it!
They've built a .50 suppressor safe for black powder rifles and permanently attached it to a modern inline muzzle-stuffer rifle.

https://silencerco.com/maxim50/


Because it's not detachable and suitable for mounting on other firearms, it's not within the scope of the National Firearms Act. No ATF paperwork, no $200 tax, no fingerprints or photos.

https://www.shootingillustrated.com/...erco-maxim-50/
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Old 11-16-2017, 11:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tv_racin_fan View Post
I believe the inline was patented sometime around 1820, around the same time that caps were invented. In fact the system was intended to protect the fragile caps which I believe the earliest were made of paper. Anyone who owned a cap lock rifle may well have owned an inline.
And, that's why all the mountain men and Indians toted inlines, and they were the guns most used in the Civil War.

Inline MLs never came into favor or common use until modern times, regardless of when they were patented.
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Old 11-16-2017, 11:13 PM
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yeah, VHS videocassette recorders were "invented" in the 1960s, but didn't really show up in regular stores until the 1980s.

Man-made nuclear power plants have been around since 1939-- but only as laboratory experiments. A few useful power-generating stations went online in the 1950s, but it was really the middle 1960s when nuclear power became "normal" as a source of energy for utility companies.

There's a patent for inline roller skates -- identical to rollerblades-- from the 1880s. The idea didn't catch on for nearly 100 years.
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Old 11-24-2017, 11:45 AM
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Default Suppressor on muzzleloader

I equate that with putting a side saddle on a pizz ant!
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Old 11-25-2017, 07:09 AM
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https://www.facebook.com/TuckerCarls...DM&pnref=story
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