rjcruiser
Senior Member
Let me clarify. We are all sinners. And to a point, all Christians are hypocrites. But, Christians (not christians) repent and desire to change. And...there should be evidence of change....aka sanctification.
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hobbs27
Senior Member
Have you ever seen the member that judges?
I think that is probably my greatest weakness.
Artfuldodger
Senior Member
I agree and that is the point I'm making in relation to all of the various types of Churches. I don't see certain Churches changing the sinners into saints any better than others. Repentance levels of the individuals are not based on denominations, church size or type.
I've been around a lot of Christians from all of these Churches and I don't see any of them that are better than the next as far as their Church is concerned. I do see some Christians who live a more Christian life than others but it's not related to their Church type.
I've been around Pentecostal and Catholic Christians who know a lot about scripture and a lot about Church.
I don't see them utilizing any of that to make themselves any better than the mainstream Christians or the Contemporary Church Christians.
Not as a whole group of any one Church. Again, I see just as many sinning saints in the Baptist Church as I do in the Methodist Church.
I find many Christians who are loving and forgiving. Many who witness and help others.
I also see many that are full of lust and anger. Many that don't forgive others. Many who lie, cheat, and steal.
To be honest it doesn't pertain to just the liberal or contemporary Churches. It isn't just the mainstream Churches in relation to the types of saints that I live and work with.
Now I can't really tell you why people are leaving the Mainstream Churches, just an observation by me of their saints vs other Churches saints.
None of this gives any Church the right to not teach scripture, yet they all teach scripture differently.
They all have various types of saints with different degrees of repentance and fruits.
Artfuldodger
Senior Member
It is not simply the churches that are on a downhill slide. Rotary, the Lions, Kiwanis, VFW, American Legion, Masonry and labor unions are suffering the same plight. American political parties also are feeling the pressures of “deinstitutionalism.”
My Dad was attending some type of meeting almost every night back when I was growing up. He was in the American Legion, W.O.W. fraternity, a professional Grand Juror, on the county planning commission, Wednesday night prayer meeting, and a boys Church club leader.(Baptist Royal Ambassadors)
He was very civic minded. When I got out of the Navy, I joined the American Legion but never fit in with the bald and aging members.
I think that this is one reason many of the mainstream Churches are losing members. One Methodist Church I have occasionally attended has suffered from the younger crowd moving on. The only people left are the older members.
This happened to the Baptist Church I attended as a child. It finally closed. Most of the kids moved on. I don't know where they went or why. I believe it to be more of a social issue than scriptural differences.
Maybe they are looking for something more contemporary and less fundamental.
Maybe people are looking for something more genuine. Maybe they don't feel any love. They are seeking and searching for the light.
Who knows for sure, we're all just speculating. I'm sure there are many reasons.
My Dad was attending some type of meeting almost every night back when I was growing up. He was in the American Legion, W.O.W. fraternity, a professional Grand Juror, on the county planning commission, Wednesday night prayer meeting, and a boys Church club leader.(Baptist Royal Ambassadors)
He was very civic minded. When I got out of the Navy, I joined the American Legion but never fit in with the bald and aging members.
I think that this is one reason many of the mainstream Churches are losing members. One Methodist Church I have occasionally attended has suffered from the younger crowd moving on. The only people left are the older members.
This happened to the Baptist Church I attended as a child. It finally closed. Most of the kids moved on. I don't know where they went or why. I believe it to be more of a social issue than scriptural differences.
Maybe they are looking for something more contemporary and less fundamental.
Maybe people are looking for something more genuine. Maybe they don't feel any love. They are seeking and searching for the light.
Who knows for sure, we're all just speculating. I'm sure there are many reasons.
Artfuldodger
Senior Member
Have you ever seen the member that judges?
I think that is probably my greatest weakness.
Yes but only the major sins. Many Christians are preoccupied with what they consider major sins.
These are usually the sins of others.
The sins they tolerate are subtle sins or sins they commit.
Sins such as gluttony, pride, coveting, worldly possessions idolatry, laziness, hatred, gossiping, anger, apathy, deceit, cheating,breaking promises, and cruel speech to others.
The real things we Christians struggle with every single day are often tolerated. I don't struggle with wanting to murder, I struggle with anger and hatred. I don't struggle with adultery, I struggle with lust.
It is very hard for us to offer God's grace to other peoples sins.
Is my lustful heart as bad a adultery? Is my anger as bad as murder?
I think we have to be careful that we don't worship the Church instead of God.
hobbs27
Senior Member
Lowjack
Senior Member
Yep I believe his work as far as payment for our transgression was all done , but not all prophecies concerning the Kingdom to Come are fulfilled yet
They are still been fulfilled daily with Israel >
hobbs27
Senior Member
Jesus is Israel
"Israel is my son, even my firstborn"
(Ex. 4:22 cf. Hosea 11:1/Matthew 2:15)
"Israel is my son, even my firstborn"
(Ex. 4:22 cf. Hosea 11:1/Matthew 2:15)
