king killer delete
Moderator
Just a bit of Back ground information.
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Russia in WWll
- Thread starter Artfuldodger
- Start date
king killer delete
Moderator
the Kaiser and the Tsar were cousins. The Kaisers Grand Mother was Queen Victoria of GB.
king killer delete
Moderator
Stalin assumed power when Lenin died. Now he killed allot of People to do it. As Hitler was not German Stalin was not Russian. He was from Soviet Georgia.
rayjay
Senior Member
After WWI the German generals were already planning for the next round. It wasn't just Hitler. The main thing he did was push forward the time table by about 5 years.
Hitler could [ should ?] have been justifiable executed in 1923. Had he been so the difference in history is too vast to comprehend.
Hitler could [ should ?] have been justifiable executed in 1923. Had he been so the difference in history is too vast to comprehend.
rayjay
Senior Member
You can't discuss Barbarosa and the initial successes without also talking about the encouragement it gave to the Japanese to embark on the Pearl Harbor attack. It's all tied together in history if not in collaboration between the Axis.
If you haven't, you ought to read the telegrams sent between the cousins. The Willy-Nicky telegrams (between Kaiser Wilhelm and Tsar Nickolas show how both men tried to avoid war while being swept along by their own nations and the alliances they had formed pushing them towards eminent conflict.
Artfuldodger
Senior Member
Good info. guys, I had read where a lot of those leaders were relatives.
Artfuldodger
Senior Member
I was reading where if Stalin was going to attack Germany, he had a few chances and didn't. Maybe he was waiting on his army to get ready. It's strictly speculation but Stalin was doing some things thought to be offensive instead of just defending an invasion;
"The Soviet Union had a strong line of defense fortresses a few hundred kilometers from its borders. In the late 1930s Stalin suddenly ordered the fortresses to be dismantled and the fortress troops rearranged into regular infantry and artillery. Why would a country do this if it is preparing for defense?"
"The Soviets invested great efforts into building a paratrooper force. Paratroops are definitely an offensive weapon, they are of little use in defense. (Of course the troopers can fight in defense as regular infantry, but that doesn’t need specialized training and equipment.)"
"The first German reconnaissance units which breached the Soviet-German border reported that all battlefield obstacles were removed, barbed wires cut, mines removed and the path is clear. Why did the Soviets open their own border? The only possible explanation is because they wanted to cross it."
https://www.quora.com/If-Hitler-hadnt-invaded-Russia-would-Stalin-have-invaded-Germany
"The Soviet Union had a strong line of defense fortresses a few hundred kilometers from its borders. In the late 1930s Stalin suddenly ordered the fortresses to be dismantled and the fortress troops rearranged into regular infantry and artillery. Why would a country do this if it is preparing for defense?"
"The Soviets invested great efforts into building a paratrooper force. Paratroops are definitely an offensive weapon, they are of little use in defense. (Of course the troopers can fight in defense as regular infantry, but that doesn’t need specialized training and equipment.)"
"The first German reconnaissance units which breached the Soviet-German border reported that all battlefield obstacles were removed, barbed wires cut, mines removed and the path is clear. Why did the Soviets open their own border? The only possible explanation is because they wanted to cross it."
https://www.quora.com/If-Hitler-hadnt-invaded-Russia-would-Stalin-have-invaded-Germany
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king killer delete
Moderator
Your right, The USSR almost lost to the FINs and had to work hard to beat them.
Also allot of people do not know that German troops were not the only troops fighting the Red army. Spain had sent troops and allot of the countrys which would later become part of the eastern block also sent troops to fight as German alies.
Artfuldodger
Senior Member
I knew that Spain helped Germany fight the Russians. Why didn't the Western European Allies help Russia fight the invading Germans? The invasion started in June of 1941 and the US didn't get over to the British Isles until the first of 1942. I'm assuming it was too early in the war for the US to help.
Maybe the Western European allies were too busy defending their own turf to go help Russia.
Maybe the Western European allies were too busy defending their own turf to go help Russia.
JSnake
Useless Billy Bouncer
Let's also remember that Stalin had several paranoiac purges of experienced generals (army, corps, and division leaders) that severely hamstrung his army leading up to and during the beginning of the war. We're talking about 15,000-30,000 officers top to bottom.
Another thing that is not widely known about in the US is Stalin's forced-famine purge of The Ukraine (The Holodomor). Contemporary historians estimate it resulted in the deaths of over 7 million people in 1932-33.
Another thing that is not widely known about in the US is Stalin's forced-famine purge of The Ukraine (The Holodomor). Contemporary historians estimate it resulted in the deaths of over 7 million people in 1932-33.
AccUbonD
Senior Member
Apocolypse now WW1 episodes are a must for WW1. It aired not long ago on HERO channel I believe.
AccUbonD
Senior Member
I believe WW2 was called Apocolypse now second world war.
rayjay
Senior Member
It always boggles my mind that people will let ONE man do these sorts of things. Any of those generals probably had an opportunity at one time to pop Joe right between the eyes or blow him up. Yes, it would be suicide but you know you are probably dying anyway so ??
Same with the officer's plot against Hitler. If van Stauffinberg [sp ] stands there with the case in his hand right beside Hitler and commits suicide then Hitler is dead. The outcome is the same for the plotter. Make it count.
rayjay
Senior Member
Britain was on her own and still recovering from the loss of her armaments that were left behind at Dunkirk. All of continental Europe was controlled by or friendly to the Axis. They were in effect aiding Germany.
Artfuldodger
Senior Member
Reminds me of the alliances one forms when playing the game "Risk."
Artfuldodger
Senior Member
Would it be safe to say Stalin was as evil as Hitler?
Big7
The Oracle
Famous for saying "I just need some more gas".
They think they got the stuff right now cause bummer is SOOOOO weak.
We can shoot down anything they got from anywhere
on the planet and in space.
They know it.. Just yappin' right now cause of bummer.
Trump gets in there and that trash talk will STOP.. right quick!
Bet the egg money on that one.
Artfuldodger
Senior Member
Famous for saying "I just need some more gas".
They think they got the stuff right now cause bummer is SOOOOO weak.
We can shoot down anything they got from anywhere
on the planet and in space.
They know it.. Just yappin' right now cause of bummer.
Trump gets in there and that trash talk will STOP.. right quick!
Bet the egg money on that one.
Trump is there favored candidate. It would be nice having an alliance with Russia after so many years.
rayjay
Senior Member
Russia is the ideological enemy of the citizens of this country. It is better to treat your enemies as enemies and not as allies or even trading partners. Same with China, North Korea, Iran, etc.
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