The Simple Truth About Predestination

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I know of no dissonance between election and invitation as thus might be seen in "whosoever will may come".
For it truly is only in the coming that any man discovers the frailty, futility, and utter temporality of the will of man. To "provoke to jealousy" as some esteemed brother once said is not for the purpose of elevating jealousy, but in fact, alleviating it to its removal.
We all start somewhere till we see Him who is the starter of all, Himself, without beginning or end.
 
W

welderguy

Senior Member
I think we can all agree salvation is by grace, through faith...right?

Ok, lets look at how we get this faith, shall we?

2 Peter 1:1
1 Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:


Peter is telling us that it is an "obtained" thing.
If you look up this word "obtained" in the Strong's concordance, you'll see that it does not mean we aquire by some action or will, but rather by lot. Divine allotment.
In other words, we are passive in the receiving of it, based solely on God's own purpose.



Word: lagcanw

Pronounce: lang-khan'-o

Strongs Number: G2975

Orig: a prolonged form of a primary verb, which is only used as an alternate in certain tenses; to lot, i.e. determine (by implication, receive) especially by lot:--his lot be, cast lots, obtain.

Use: TDNT-4:1,495 Verb

Heb Strong: H3920

1) to obtain by lot
1a) to receive by divine allotment, obtain
2) to cast lots, determine by lot
 
W

welderguy

Senior Member
centerpin fan said:
No, I'm saying you are. :p
Click to expand...

I'm reading it just the way Peter penned it.
He used the word lagcanw, which means divine allotment.

He did not use the word epitugchanó, which means to attain.

You are the one who has the wrong interpretation, and it is twisting your doctrine accordingly.
 
centerpin fan

centerpin fan

Senior Member
welderguy said:
I'm reading it just the way Peter penned it.
He used the word lagcanw, which means divine allotment.

He did not use the word epitugchanó, which means to attain.
Click to expand...

There's nothing plainer and less open to interpretation than Peter's admonition to repent in Acts 2 and 3, yet you still deny it's necessary for salvation.
 
hobbs27

hobbs27

Senior Member
Peter taught if the elect stumbled they would not gain entrance into the kingdom.

2Peter:
10 Therefore, brethren, be even more diligent to make your call and election sure, for if you do these things you will never stumble; 11 for so an entrance will be supplied to you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
 
StriperAddict

StriperAddict

Senior Member
hobbs27 said:
Some believe we can posses the fruits of the Spirit that were only given to establish the church... Another first century phenomenon.
Click to expand...

(Gal 5:22-24)
So are you suggesting that "love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, gentleness, meekness and self control",
a.k.a. the fruit of the Spirit, is no longer given to believers, or (at worst) come NOW by way of "self effort" and not a by-product of the Holy Spirit living within each believer?

Having begun in the Spirit, are you/we seeking to be perfected by the flesh?

IMO, saved by Grace thru faith, KEPT by grace thru faith ...
 
hobbs27

hobbs27

Senior Member
StriperAddict said:
(Gal 5:22-24)
So are you suggesting that "love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, gentleness, meekness and self control",
a.k.a. the fruit of the Spirit, is no longer given to believers, or (at worst) come NOW by way of "self effort" and not a by-product of the Holy Spirit living within each believer?

Having begun in the Spirit, are you/we seeking to be perfected by the flesh?

IMO, saved by Grace thru faith, KEPT by grace thru faith ...
Click to expand...

No.. But thank you for pointing out my mistake. I had been reading and discussing both first fruits and the gift of the Spirit and totally missed the word.
It should say the (gifts) of the Spirit, not fruit.
 
StriperAddict

StriperAddict

Senior Member
hobbs27 said:
No.. But thank you for pointing out my mistake. I had been reading and discussing both first fruits and the gift of the Spirit and totally missed the word.
It should say the (gifts) of the Spirit, not fruit.
Click to expand...

Got it, thanks. :cheers:
 
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