Gender, race in Heaven?

I guess it would have to do with whether we believe Heaven is physical or spiritual but heard a preacher say today that there would be no race or gender in Heaven.

I can't see where spirits have race or gender. Physical bodies, then yes. Could one go to Heaven as a gender and race neutral spirit only to one day return as a physical white male?

Perhaps Jesus was with God from eternity as Son. Son implies gender. Yet he was only a Spirit until he came to the earth as a man. If he went to Heaven as a man, then he is physically a man today in Heaven.
But if he is Spirit as in God, then he may be gender free. If God is his Father and our Father then spirits do have gender.
God has to be a male(Father) and Jesus has to be a male) Son.

I think maybe the preacher was mistaken.

Artfuldodger said:

Perhaps Jesus was with God from eternity as Son. Son implies gender. Yet he was only a Spirit until he came to the earth as a man. If he went to Heaven as a man, then he is physically a man today in Heaven.
But if he is Spirit as in God, then he may be gender free. If God is his Father and our Father then spirits do have gender.
God has to be a male(Father) and Jesus has to be a male) Son.

I think maybe the preacher was mistaken.

Click to expand...

I am persuaded that "he was only a spirit" shows a point of reckoning that is subject to revision.
Is a man brought by Christ (and bought by Christ) to reason "to" the spirit...or from...the spirit?

Is spirit preeminent, or is it subject to the natural for its understanding?

Israel said:

I am persuaded that "he was only a spirit" shows a point of reckoning that is subject to revision.
Is a man brought by Christ (and bought by Christ) to reason "to" the spirit...or from...the spirit?

Is spirit preeminent, or is it subject to the natural for its understanding?

Click to expand...

Yes.

What is real?
Somehow, that which is temporary does not seem to qualify (taxonomically).

Another question to consider since Jesus came down from Heaven in spirit form only to enter the world through or as a human.
Initially he was spirit form only. He became a man.

I'm wondering or asking if he picked up another spirit, that of a man upon the creation of that man in which the spirit of Jesus entered?

Artfuldodger said:

Another question to consider since Jesus came down from Heaven in spirit form only to enter the world through or as a human.
Initially he was spirit form only. He became a man.

I'm wondering or asking if he picked up another spirit, that of a man upon the creation of that man in which the spirit of Jesus entered?

Click to expand...

These appear to me as worthy considerations.
What does it mean to be a man?
From the natural it seems rather simple, a basic plumbing issue. And we can easily see this answered almost uniformly, in the world.

But if our intercourse is now persuaded of spirit, we cannot help but ask "God what does it mean to you...to be...man?"

Are we convinced of His answer? Now, that's a man!

Ecce homo.

If a man and a women's loving is different one the other as to be one complete creation as one man and that these are elements of the soul, as opposed to elements derived from physical nature, and predating the fall, than man is in heaven both males and females.

The spirit of man is a lesser quality and quantity than the soul of man because fallen man is peppered with spirits.

So I would not say that Jesus took on the spirit of man when he was born of Mary, but rather he "picked up the soul of man" with its many spirits which is opposed to God's which is unaccompanied.

God as Father and Son imply male spirits. So maybe Jesus was male before he became a man.

Artfuldodger said:

God as Father and Son imply male spirits. So maybe Jesus was male before he became a man.

Click to expand...

I understand right off the top of my soul that the idea of a father figure comes from God nurturing his chosen people and perhaps before this from the idea of the Pharaoh as the right hand of his people and father figure because Moses was an Egyptian by culture. ( Much in the same way Angela Merkel is said to be the mother figure ( a figure of stability) of Germany today, ( by some). I am musing that the idea of He ( indicating male) is a corruption of Him when the word had not gender to it, maybe???... in old languages... I'll let the biblical linguist have a look if they can. But generally I suspect that the Father figure comes from the history of the Hebrews and Jews... that is the focus is on the Jews or the spiritual change with them and not especially our God.

Before woman was taken out of Adam, he was called man.

"It is not good for the man to be alone."

But something came out of Adam that he recognized of himself.

In like manner something has "come out" of Christ "He shall see his seed...and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand."

This restoration of all things (to be discovered/revealed) as obviously seen by Paul is found here:

"But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God."
Which is really less a statement of order than it is a revelation of how things are (though it is indeed the order) has often been misunderstood as something man enforces, or is to be enforced, by his understanding.

Jesus marvelled at the Centurion's faith, because the Centurion saw something that even most of Israel, and the disciples included, had not yet perceived. He grasped that Jesus' authority came from being under authority and was not something He grasped of Himself. It was less a "what manner of man is this...?" than it was the recognition of who was "working over" that man (has God worked us over to recognize His authority in all things?) or are we yet of those who will deign to "let God have His place"?

These are but silly questions to those who mistake the woundings of men for the meeting of the Lion of the tribe of Judah.

See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand.


Some...don't like their race...their gender, their estate and position...and eye with envy those they yet esteem...more powerful, more privileged , better begotten...and must be so until they are brought to see, and acknowledge whom they truly do envy. And then in this true confession, if found, discover all they have envied "for" has always been theirs to have...and share.

The Father said to the son who was troubled by the prodigal's return and treatment...who had remained, laboring to attain...

And he answering said to his father, Lo, these many years do I serve thee, neither transgressed I at any time thy commandment: and yet thou never gavest me a kid, that I might make merry with my friends. But as soon as this thy son was come, which hath devoured thy living with harlots, thou hast killed for him the fatted calf.

And he said unto him, Son, thou art ever with me, and all that I have is thine




If by any means I may provoke to envy them who are my flesh, and might save some of them.


The "good" son...so provoked... came clean about his understanding (which was a total misunderstanding) of both his relationship to his Father, and his inference as to who the Father is, relative to, and in that understanding.

God already knows we "want what He's got", and He's faithful to show us the Way.


I know a man who once said to another man (in whom he saw the ease of God at work in witness) "I want what you have".
This man then told the younger "to have what I have, you must lose what I have lost" The younger man, at that point, only saw what he did not have. And he, at that point, did not know how much he had then put up "for grabs" in that simple exchange. But he is beginning to learn he has lost nothing.

"Wives, submit yourselves to your own husbands as you do to the Lord."

"Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord."

( I must assume here Paul was talking to Christians and that the wifes love God heaps or know such a love due the Holy Spirit.)



I have to wonder two things here.

Is the word submit the right word, as we define submission today?

And "as you do to the Lord" or"as unto the lord"? Is not our submission one of love? due to Jesus? As a submission the burden is light.

Now that is an interesting love, because my submission to God through the blessings of my Lord is in fact love, or a submission brought about by love and in love, I think. That is I cannot help myself..."He can't do no wrong! And I have never left our first love regards God--never having a reason to." So the order of submission is interesting, I think? To be honest my love regards my spouse could easily be described as an up and down relationship--regards the intensity of the loving relationship. It is not so with God!

If I was to read and do,
" Gordo love your wife as you do to the Lord or as unto the Lord?" Wow! That is a whole lot of lovin'!

It will be as God wishes.

We know Christ ascended to the right hand of the Father in His resurrected body.

I believe "gender is an essential characteristic of individual pre-mortal, mortal, and eternal identity and purpose". But I don't think it matters whether or not race is a real thing, eternally speaking.

https://www.lds.org/ensign/2010/11/the-family-a-proclamation-to-the-world?lang=eng