The end of all things is near.

Artfuldodger · Apr 22, 2014

1 Peter 4:7
The end of all things is at hand; therefore be self-controlled and sober-minded for the sake of your prayers.

Romans 13:11
Do this, knowing the time, that it is already the hour for you to awaken from sleep; for now salvation is nearer to us than when we believed.

What "end" were the aposotles trying to convey? The end of the Jewish Church? Their end?

hobbs27 · Apr 22, 2014

Artfuldodger said:
1 Peter 4:7
The end of all things is at hand; therefore be self-controlled and sober-minded for the sake of your prayers.

Romans 13:11
Do this, knowing the time, that it is already the hour for you to awaken from sleep; for now salvation is nearer to us than when we believed.

What "end" were the aposotles trying to convey? The end of the Jewish Church? Their end?

I would say it was the only end they knew of, the only end that was prophesied in Malachi, by John the Baptist , and Jesus Christ Himself. It was at hand back then...those words were not only written, they were spoken, and they were spoke to people of that day. The end came,and I know cause the bible tells me so!

Artfuldodger · Apr 22, 2014

hobbs27 said:
I would say it was the only end they knew of, the only end that was prophesied in Malachi, by John the Baptist , and Jesus Christ Himself. It was at hand back then...those words were not only written, they were spoken, and they were spoke to people of that day. The end came,and I know cause the bible tells me so!

What is the Biblical defintion of this "end" you speak of? One thing i've always been warned of growing up in the Church, besides he11, was this "end." I was given lots of warnings concerning the end. Some of these warnings were even scary.

hobbs27 · Apr 22, 2014

Artfuldodger said:
What is the Biblical defintion of this "end" you speak of? One thing i've always been warned of growing up in the Church, besides he11, was this "end." I was given lots of warnings concerning the end. Some of these warnings were even scary.

yeah me too. And all those scary stories are just a made up bunch of jibberish.

The bible tells us of a time of an end, but not an end of time.
Eph 3:21 (KJV)
Unto him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, world without end. Amen.

Who was the warnings of an end to, and why? It was to the lost sheep of Israel that they may escape the wrath of God that fell on Jerusalem in 70ad.

SemperFiDawg · Apr 23, 2014

hobbs27 said:
yeah me too. And all those scary stories are just a made up bunch of jibberish.

The bible tells us of a time of an end, but not an end of time.
Eph 3:21 (KJV)
Unto him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, world without end. Amen.

Who was the warnings of an end to, and why? It was to the lost sheep of Israel that they may escape the wrath of God that fell on Jerusalem in 70ad.

If it was to the Jews the book of Revelation was written about 20 years too late. In all seriousness what does a preterist do with Revelation?

hobbs27 · Apr 23, 2014

SemperFiDawg said:
If it was to the Jews the book of Revelation was written about 20 years too late. In all seriousness what does a preterist do with Revelation?

Love it for the great epistle it is. The late date doesn't hold up, and more and more people are realizing it was most likely written 65-68 ad.

http://www.ecclesia.org/truth/revelation.html

SemperFiDawg · Apr 23, 2014

hobbs27 said:
Love it for the great epistle it is. The late date doesn't hold up, and more and more people are realizing it was most likely written 65-68 ad.

http://www.ecclesia.org/truth/revelation.html

Of course. I wasn't sure, but there's really no other way it works unless you re-date Revelations.

You may be interested in this.

http://www.pfrs.org/preterism/pret01.html

hobbs27 · Apr 23, 2014

SemperFiDawg said:
Of course. I wasn't sure, but there's really no other way it works unless you re-date Revelations.

You may be interested in this.

http://www.pfrs.org/preterism/pret01.html

Yes sir, there's a lot of debate back and forth on the issue of the dating. As of late most theologians even futurist are giving in to the early date. Kenneth Gentry did some work on proving the early date and since his work few that read it will dispute his findings.I have a few problems with the late dating other than what was posted in the link I provided. One , John was born in or very close to 6 ad. The late date means he would have been close to 90 years old-- not much sense banishing a 90 yr old man, especially in those days. Records show John passing away near that age in Ephesus.

It is only in the church tradition and creed that preterism can be debated, it is the purest sola scriptura eschatological view known. Historical preterism / partial preterism has a long history in the church, longer than dispensationalism. I have been teetering between partial and full preterism for a while now. Partial preterism has protection in the church creed and is accepted , but full preterism is more scriptural-- and this has been my struggle.

What I do know without doubt is that dispensationalism is a cancer on the church and needs to be rooted out.

centerpin fan · Apr 23, 2014

hobbs27 said:
... dispensationalism is a cancer on the church and needs to be rooted out.

Where's barryl when you need him?

hobbs27 · Apr 23, 2014

Just a little more on the early dating

There are suggestive evidences within the book to date it in the mid- to late-60s of the first century. In fact, the evidence is persuasive enough that it convinced such notable scholars Moses Stuart, F. J. A. Hort, B. F. Westcott, and F. W. Farrar in the last century, and J. A. T. Robinson, R. A. Torrey, Albert A. Bell, and C. F. D. Moule in our own day.

Two leading indicators of the early date are: (1) The "temple" in the "holy city" is still standing as John writes, though it is being threatened with devastation (Rev. 11: 1-2). We know as a matter of historical fact that the Jewish temple was destroyed in A.D. 70, and has never been rebuilt. (2) The sixth "king" is presently ruling from the "seven mountains" and will do so until a king comes who will reign a "short time" (Rev. 17:9-10). The preterist takes this to be a clear enough allusion to Nero Caesar. According to the enumeration found in Josephus’ Antiquities (18:2:2,6, 10) and Suetonius’ Lives of the Twelve Caesars, Nero is Rome’s sixth emperor, following Julius Caesar, Augustus, Tiberius, Gaius, and Claudius. The next reigning emperor, Galba, reigned but six months, the shortest reigning emperor until that time.

Also, I often wonder how futurist get past the first verse of Revelation

Revelation 1

1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him,to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

centerpin fan · Apr 23, 2014

hobbs27 said:
Just a little more on the early dating

There are suggestive evidences within the book to date it in the mid- to late-60s of the first century. In fact, the evidence is persuasive enough that it convinced such notable scholars Moses Stuart, F. J. A. Hort, B. F. Westcott, and F. W. Farrar in the last century, and J. A. T. Robinson, R. A. Torrey, Albert A. Bell, and C. F. D. Moule in our own day.

Two leading indicators of the early date are: (1) The "temple" in the "holy city" is still standing as John writes, though it is being threatened with devastation (Rev. 11: 1-2). We know as a matter of historical fact that the Jewish temple was destroyed in A.D. 70, and has never been rebuilt. (2) The sixth "king" is presently ruling from the "seven mountains" and will do so until a king comes who will reign a "short time" (Rev. 17:9-10). The preterist takes this to be a clear enough allusion to Nero Caesar. According to the enumeration found in Josephus’ Antiquities (18:2:2,6, 10) and Suetonius’ Lives of the Twelve Caesars, Nero is Rome’s sixth emperor, following Julius Caesar, Augustus, Tiberius, Gaius, and Claudius. The next reigning emperor, Galba, reigned but six months, the shortest reigning emperor until that time.

Also, I often wonder how futurist get past the first verse of Revelation

Revelation 1

1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

Where's barryl when you need him?

1gr8bldr · Apr 23, 2014

This from biblehub;; http://biblehub.com/text/romans/13-11.htm It came up partial so here is the link

Romans 13:11 â–º
Text Analysis
Strong's Transliteration Greek English Morphology
2532 [e] Kai ÎšÎ±á½¶ And Conj
3778 [e] touto Ï„Î¿á¿¦Ï„Î¿ this, DPro-ANS
1492 [e] eidotes Îµá¼°Î´ÏŒÏ„ÎµÏ‚ knowing V-RPA-NMP
3588 [e] ton Ï„á½¸Î½ the Art-AMS
2540 [e] kairon ÎºÎ±Î¹Ï�ÏŒÎ½, time, N-AMS
3754 [e] hoti á½…Ï„Î¹ that Conj
5610 [e] hÅ�ra á½¥Ï�Î± [the] hour N-NFS
2235 [e] Ä“dÄ“ á¼¤Î´Î· already Adv
4771 [e] hymas á½‘Î¼á¾¶Ï‚ for you PPro-A2P
1537 [e] ex á¼�Î¾ out of Prep
5258 [e] hypnou á½•Ï€Î½Î¿Ï… sleep N-GMS
1453 [e] egerthÄ“nai á¼�Î³ÎµÏ�Î¸á¿†Î½Î±Î¹· to awaken; V-ANP
3568 [e] nyn Î½á¿¦Î½ now Adv
1063 [e] gar Î³á½°Ï� indeed Conj
1452 [e] engyteron á¼�Î³Î³Ï�Ï„ÎµÏ�Î¿Î½ nearer Adv
1473 [e] hÄ“mÅ�n á¼¡Î¼á¿¶Î½ [is] of us PPro-G1P
3588 [e] hÄ“ á¼¡ the Art-NFS
4991 [e] sÅ�tÄ“ria ÏƒÏ‰Ï„Î·Ï�Î¯Î± salvation, N-NFS
2228 [e] Ä“ á¼¢ than Conj
3753 [e] hote á½…Ï„Îµ when first Adv
4100 [e] episteusamen á¼�Ï€Î¹ÏƒÏ„ÎµÏ�ÏƒÎ±Î¼ÎµÎ½. we believed. V-AIA-1P
Greek Texts

hobbs27 · Apr 23, 2014

1gr8bldr said:
This from biblehub;; http://biblehub.com/text/romans/13-11.htm It came up partial so here is the link

Romans 13:11 â–º
Text Analysis
Strong's Transliteration Greek English Morphology
2532 [e] Kai ÎšÎ±á½¶ And Conj
3778 [e] touto Ï„Î¿á¿¦Ï„Î¿ this, DPro-ANS
1492 [e] eidotes Îµá¼°Î´ÏŒÏ„ÎµÏ‚ knowing V-RPA-NMP
3588 [e] ton Ï„á½¸Î½ the Art-AMS
2540 [e] kairon ÎºÎ±Î¹Ï�ÏŒÎ½, time, N-AMS
3754 [e] hoti á½…Ï„Î¹ that Conj
5610 [e] hÅ�ra á½¥Ï�Î± [the] hour N-NFS
2235 [e] Ä“dÄ“ á¼¤Î´Î· already Adv
4771 [e] hymas á½‘Î¼á¾¶Ï‚ for you PPro-A2P
1537 [e] ex á¼�Î¾ out of Prep
5258 [e] hypnou á½•Ï€Î½Î¿Ï… sleep N-GMS
1453 [e] egerthÄ“nai á¼�Î³ÎµÏ�Î¸á¿†Î½Î±Î¹· to awaken; V-ANP
3568 [e] nyn Î½á¿¦Î½ now Adv
1063 [e] gar Î³á½°Ï� indeed Conj
1452 [e] engyteron á¼�Î³Î³Ï�Ï„ÎµÏ�Î¿Î½ nearer Adv
1473 [e] hÄ“mÅ�n á¼¡Î¼á¿¶Î½ [is] of us PPro-G1P
3588 [e] hÄ“ á¼¡ the Art-NFS
4991 [e] sÅ�tÄ“ria ÏƒÏ‰Ï„Î·Ï�Î¯Î± salvation, N-NFS
2228 [e] Ä“ á¼¢ than Conj
3753 [e] hote á½…Ï„Îµ when first Adv
4100 [e] episteusamen á¼�Ï€Î¹ÏƒÏ„ÎµÏ�ÏƒÎ±Î¼ÎµÎ½. we believed. V-AIA-1P
Greek Texts

Im starting to trust youngs literal translation more and more, what do you think of it?

Young's Literal Translation
And this, knowing the time, that for us, the hour already is to be aroused out of sleep, for now nearer is our salvation than when we did believe;

barryl · Apr 24, 2014

centerpin fan said:
Where's barryl when you need him?

Oh I'm around, but I gotta go north for a few days(death in the family) When I get back I'll
see what God's word can do. Hey Hobbs, ever hear of "Domitian"? See ya'll in about a week or so.

hobbs27 · Apr 24, 2014

barryl said:
Hey Hobbs, ever hear of "Domitian"? See ya'll in about a week or so.

Yes...Sorry for your loss and safe travels friend.

hobbs27 · Apr 30, 2014

I just read this from Charles Meek and thought I would share since there's been so many questions about what is preterism. Btw, I disagree about Jesus being lower in rank.

WHAT IS EVANGELICAL PRETERISM?

By Charles Meek

Evangelical Preterists hold to the basic First Things doctrines of the Christian faith, which can be summarized as follows:

1. The Nature of God: God is a Trinity—one God manifested in three, eternally co-existent “persons”—Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Jesus and the Holy Spirit are of the same nature and essence as God the Father (consistent with the Nicene Creed), though lower in role and rank.

2. The Nature of Man: All men are sinful and fall short of the glory of God.

3. How Sinful Man is Reconciled to a Holy God: the gospel. We are saved by God’s grace through a living, penitent, trusting faith in Jesus Christ alone—because of Christ’s perfect earthly life, his substitutionary death to pay the penalty for our sin, his resurrection to provide the hope for our own eternal life, and his Parousia to seal our salvation in covenantal completion of all that was promised in the Old and New Testaments.

4. The Bible: The Bible is inspired by God, that is—it is God’s Word from Genesis to Revelation. Accordingly, we submit to Scripture when it declares in over 100 passages of the New Testament that the so-called "last days" were in the 1st century, culminating with the end of the Old Covenant Age in AD 70. At that time Jerusalem and the temple were decimated, the important genealogical records were destroyed, and the ancient Jewish system of sacrifices for sin ceased forever.

5. The Doctrine of Heaven: Heaven is where believers spend eternity after life on earth, consistent with Jesus’ numerous promises of eternal life. Christians have always understood heaven to be the “place” where believers will abide with God in a status better than we have here on earth.

6. Our obligation: In response to God’s grace, we humbly and honestly seek to obey Him as best we understand his will. In the very broadest of terms, we are to love God with all our heart, soul, mind, and strength—and to love our neighbor (even our enemies). Our compassion demands that we work to bring as many people into a saving relationship with Christ.

7. We specifically reject aberrant doctrines of millennialism (especially dispensationalism, which we think is another gospel), fideism, nominalism, antinomianism, liberalism, legalism, and universalism.

Thus, while we believe that all eschatological promises were fulfilled in AD 70—including the Parousia, the great judgment, and the general resurrection—we believe that the workings of God continue past AD 70. Thus, the SOTERIOLOGICAL PROMISES of the Bible continue into the world without end (Ephesians 3:21). While we recognize that theological errors have been present in the ancient faith, we believe that it is important to remain connected into the lineage of classical Christianity to the extent possible. Christianity is an historical faith, and we stand on the shoulders of those who have gone before us.

So what did happen in the first century? The Bible is clear that Christ’s death on the cross paid the penalty for our sins (Romans 8:1-4; 1 Corinthians 15:3; 2 Corinthians 5:17-21; Hebrews 9:15-26, etc.). And his resurrection provided our hope for eternal life (1 Corinthians 15:1-11, etc.). Nevertheless, the Bible teaches us that at the Parousia, Christ’s work of redemption and salvation was completed (Luke 21:28; Romans 13:11-12; Hebrews 1:14 note mello; Hebrews 9:26-28; 1 Peter 1:3-9; Revelation 12:10; etc.). Effectively, this sealed the salvation of all believers into the future.

CONCLUSION: AD 70 enhances our understanding of classical Christianity, it does not detract from it.

For further information, see my various websites: the Facebook site Evangelical Preterism, the website FaithFacts.org and the Facebook site by the same name. This article and any future updates to this article, as well as other articles by this author may be found at ProphecyQuestions.Wordpress.com. The reader is invited to “like” my sites and to get a copy of my book CHRISTIAN HOPE THROUGH FULFILLED PROPHECY.

Artfuldodger · May 1, 2014

hobbs27 said:
I just read this from Charles Meek and thought I would share since there's been so many questions about what is preterism. Btw, I disagree about Jesus being lower in rank.
[/I]

Thanks for sharing your beliefs. Pertaining to Jesus, didn't he himself have a God?

hobbs27 · May 1, 2014

Artfuldodger said:
Thanks for sharing your beliefs. Pertaining to Jesus, didn't he himself have a God?

Art, I believe people get confused because they are only thinking of Jesus the man that was born of a virgin and died on the cross.

Jesus was, is, and always will be. He is the Alpha and the Omega. He appeared in the OT writings of the bible before He was born of a virgin , and He appeared many times since His ascension.

Maybe I'm wrong, but if He has all authority in heaven and earth....what else is there?

Artfuldodger · May 1, 2014

hobbs27 said:
Art, I believe people get confused because they are only thinking of Jesus the man that was born of a virgin and died on the cross.

Jesus was, is, and always will be. He is the Alpha and the Omega. He appeared in the OT writings of the bible before He was born of a virgin , and He appeared many times since His ascension.

Maybe I'm wrong, but if He has all authority in heaven and earth....what else is there?

Jesus only had a God when he was a man? I was thinking Jesus' God gave him authority. If he was God, no one would need to give him authority.

hobbs27 · May 1, 2014

Artfuldodger said:
Jesus only had a God when he was a man? I was thinking Jesus' God gave him authority. If he was God, no one would need to give him authority.

I've searched the scriptures, and asked for guidance by the spirit on this issue. I find the scripture supports the trinity, and spirit comforts me in this; so Im content with it.

It was the Holy Spirit that moved on Mary: And Jesus is the Son of God

The end of all things is near.

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