Israel
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But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord
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Consciousness
- Thread starter ambush80
- Start date
gemcgrew
Senior Member
Or the Writings use the believer and the non believer.
ambush80
Senior Member
Why?
You can't stop science from trying to cure death. Do you imagine some kind of Mahattan Project where all the world leaders get together and promise not to pursue the tech? On what grounds?
WaltL1
Senior Member
Oh I have no doubt science is and will work in that direction. Like I mentioned above, we already have made strides in that direction.
I'm just not convinced "curing death" (as in death is eliminated) is a good idea in the long term.
On the surface it sounds great.
We could probably spend days on discussing the environmental implications, days on the social implications, days on the political implications, days on the financial implications, days on the psychological implications, days on.......
I think Israel hit the nail on the head with this -
Sure some of those cans will contain "positives".
I just envision lots more cans of negatives than positives.
red neck richie
Senior Member
Anyone seen pet cemetery?
ambush80
Senior Member
Then we'll just have to be scared but it's worth it to keep trying to discover things.
red neck richie
Senior Member
When you figure it out your not skeered.
WaltL1
Senior Member
Scared?
I'm not scared. I'm a lot older than you are. I'll never see it
I absolutely agree we should continue to try to discover things.
I'm just not sure every discovery is a positive thing for everybody.
Kind of depends on how that discovery gets used.
Question -
Do you cherish time with your daughter? (I know you do)
Do you think the fact that you only will have a certain amount of time with her heightens that/makes you appreciate it more?
ambush80
Senior Member
Even though you may not be right.
Israel
BANNED
The Manhattan Project was mentioned.
It would be interesting to ask (if one stood next to Oppenheimer)
"What do you mean when you say 'I have become Shiva, destroyer of worlds.'?"
Everyone knows he did not "do it" on his own...but he obviously saw his part. And whether things unfolded (yet) in whatever he may have seen (if anything) ahead, his statement is not unlike what is called an ecstatic utterance, the plain revelation to him, and then through him to a truth.
He helped pop that can wide open, and in the moment of perfect sight of those worms (no longer of imagination) in their wiggling, he identified himself with the many armed destroyer. (Too deep an image?)
The struggle of man to put the Genii back in the bottle, to unring that bell seems endless. But, it has an appointed end.
For some "I can fix this" must give way to "My God, what have I done?"!
That seeing can only be borne in the Savior's light.
It would be interesting to ask (if one stood next to Oppenheimer)
"What do you mean when you say 'I have become Shiva, destroyer of worlds.'?"
Everyone knows he did not "do it" on his own...but he obviously saw his part. And whether things unfolded (yet) in whatever he may have seen (if anything) ahead, his statement is not unlike what is called an ecstatic utterance, the plain revelation to him, and then through him to a truth.
He helped pop that can wide open, and in the moment of perfect sight of those worms (no longer of imagination) in their wiggling, he identified himself with the many armed destroyer. (Too deep an image?)
The struggle of man to put the Genii back in the bottle, to unring that bell seems endless. But, it has an appointed end.
For some "I can fix this" must give way to "My God, what have I done?"!
That seeing can only be borne in the Savior's light.
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ambush80
Senior Member
Scared?
I'm not scared. I'm a lot older than you are. I'll never see it
I absolutely agree we should continue to try to discover things.
I'm just not sure every discovery is a positive thing for everybody.
Kind of depends on how that discovery gets used.
Question -
Do you cherish time with your daughter? (I know you do)
Do you think the fact that you only will have a certain amount of time with her heightens that/makes you appreciate it more?
Yes. I have to admit that I don't often think of how limited my time on Earth is. I could keel over right now while typinnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnhhhhhe;o....
Just kidding. But in all honesty, I could be concerned about my mortality more but I'm not. Some days I have my head down with the ball tucked and I'm just trying to make yardage. Some days I feel particularly philosophical and I try to revel in every little experience. That can be exhausting and I actually get bored of it. I don't beat myself up anymore because I'm not doing anything "meaningful". One can obsess over regrets or simply observe how they come into consciousness and then pass.
I enjoy the good times with my daughter as much as anything else I enjoy. I have a peculiar attachment to her that is unique and profound and it creates very distinct experiences that I find mysterious and powerful. I know that they could end at any time.
We put our dog down in Jan. People ask me if we are gonna get another one and I say "I don't want to emotionally invest that deeply in something that will only be around for such a short time". She was 11. Right now it doesn't seem like it was worth it. I wish that my dog and my family and all my friends could live forever. See the appeal?
ambush80
Senior Member
The existential dilemma that you're trying to describe here can be resolved without the need of un-provable claims. The seeing born from the Savior's light (whatever the heck that means) is a fiction until you can demonstrate otherwise.
Sorry about your dog.
Ours is getting older, and this comes to mind a lot:
https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/725858-tis-a-fearful-thing-tis-a-fearful-thing-to-love
*
ambush80
Senior Member
Mortality creates a particular situation. The absence of it would cause a different one. It might be fun to make a list of the good and bad that might come from the absence of mortality.
ambush80
Senior Member
Back to consciousness for a second.
We know what consciousness feels like when it manifests in material, but if one claims that consciousness is immaterial, then what does that consciousness feel like and how would one know?
We know what consciousness feels like when it manifests in material, but if one claims that consciousness is immaterial, then what does that consciousness feel like and how would one know?
WaltL1
Senior Member
I absolutely see and completely understand the appeal.
But I cant help but wonder if some of that appeal and wishing stems from the fact that whether consciously or subconsciously you know they cant and wont and that's where this appeal/wish stems from.
And that's part of my point. I suck at explaining things but.....
Things that appeal to us, things that we wish for, things that we want to accomplish etc are what make life go 'round and motivate us, provide us enjoyment etc.
I cant help but wonder if some of that gets lost when you know "they" aren't going anywhere. When you know "Ive got forever to accomplish this", would I enjoy trout fishing with friends as much today if I know I could do that forever.
Even the pain involved with putting your dog down. Isnt that pain a part of "living"? A part of what makes us appreciate life?
An "eliminating death" question from a different angle -
Right at this very moment what keeps us from being in an all out nuke war with NK?
The death toll.
Now eliminate the death toll.
Considering man's inherent desire to war, do you think we would revert to all singing kumbaya or do you think no death toll would be all the reason we need for perpetual nuke wars?
ambush80
Senior Member
I understand your point. I make the same arguments to believers about Heaven. I claim that they haven't really thought about the details, they just know that it will be Paradise cuz that's what they're told. At my friend's dad's funeral his pastor brother said "Dad, I know you're up there catching Heaven bass". How big is that bass? How pretty was that day? Is it that same moment forever or much beterer each time than we can possibly imagine. And that goes on forever?
"I wish this moment could last forever". I hear people say that all the time. What if they could hook you up to a machine that replicated that moment in your mind forever and they keep your body alive. In dystopian science fiction like the Matrix the only thing that goes wrong is that some of the people see through THAT reality and struggle against it. Or they realize that it's a facsimile and it doesn't satisfy anymore. You'd have to make a theoretical argument that "something" in your mind rejects the manufactured experience. It's too soon to say that "something in your mind" would react that way or what would cause it. That's why it's fiction.
We don't know what the implications will be of that tech. I know that we'll probably still get a rush out of jumping from a great height since the origin of that sensation is biological. For that experience to no longer affect us, that instinct would have to be altered. I don't know how much fun it would be to bungee off the Eiffel Tower for the 10,000th time. Maybe it never gets old.
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ambush80
Senior Member
I imagine that some people will choose to die even if the option to live forever exists. If believers agree with that, how do they imagine that impulse translates to life in Heaven?
If you're in Heaven, like in the perfect Matrix, is there something in the nature of spooky consciousness that would make you feel that "something's just not right"?
If you're in Heaven, like in the perfect Matrix, is there something in the nature of spooky consciousness that would make you feel that "something's just not right"?
bullethead
Of the hard cast variety
ambush80
Senior Member
Does 2+2=4 exist even if there are no beings to think about it? Does "Jesus is Lord" work the same way? What about before anything exists? What's he lording over then? Nothing?
