Best AR-15

Only someone shooting a large volume of fire through a shorter suppressed weapon is going to notice a significant difference between a DI and a piston driven AR. And most people advocating going to pistons have zero first-hand experience with the various systems. I actually have a lot of trigger time on the 416, SCAR-L, LWRC weapons, POF, LMT, etc. Do you? Do you understand the differences in the designs and the pros & cons of each? You seem more like someone who is just repeating things they've read on the internet without having actual first-hand knowledge. Even your justification for needing a replacement single piece gas ring is nothing more than a bullet point in a six year old Powerpoint presentation about some weapons testing with zero detail about the testing results.

I very much understand the reason Pat Rogers calls this great cyber place the "errornet."

Piston Operation

Mister the last thing I want is to start some internet battle. I don't surf the internet for hours at a time lookin at all that hype. I dont even have a computer or electricity, my friend is nice enough to let me use his computer whenever I need to. The only thing i do is sit in a big dirt spot in my yard & build guns out of parts kit & random khyber pass type weapons. They always work because i choose doggedly tough & durable weapon designs mainly Yugo & Romanian AK parts kits & Yugo barreled SKS recievers & make it work. I had a 11.5" commando AR the other day that i lucked into that jammed constantly & I had to sell it because I couldnt afford ammo to troubleshoot it. Do you kill things with your weapons? Watch the impact of the round, then watch it squirm around, squeal & bleed out? I do. I dont have lots of trigger time on expensive, hi-tech or suppressed weapons but I do have lots of trigger time. I do respect your opinion & its obvious that you know alot about weapons but please don't assume that the rest of us are fools. Thank you sir.

I collect historical books too, I wish that more people would.

Mingo said:

Mister the last thing I want is to start some internet battle.

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I very much agree and that isn't my intent. However, when I see someone posting erroneous information I do make an effort to correct them. People use boards like this one to gain information and it doesn't help if other folks are passing on information about which they really know nothing.

I don't surf the internet for hours at a time lookin at all that hype. I dont even have a computer or electricity, my friend is nice enough to let me use his computer whenever I need to. The only thing i do is sit in a big dirt spot in my yard & build guns out of parts kit & random khyber pass type weapons. They always work because i choose doggedly tough & durable weapon designs mainly Yugo & Romanian AK parts kits & Yugo barreled SKS recievers & make it work. I had a 11.5" commando AR the other day that i lucked into that jammed constantly & I had to sell it because I couldnt afford ammo to troubleshoot it.

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So, you don't thoroughly research things on the internet yet find meaningless old presentations that offer zero facts to support your insistence that a certain aftermarket part is necessary (a "must") in ARs that will have "rough or extensive use." Interesting.

Your skill for building and knowledge of other weapon platforms isn't being questioned here.

Do you kill things with your weapons? Watch the impact of the round, then watch it squirm around, squeal & bleed out? I do. I dont have lots of trigger time on expensive, hi-tech or suppressed weapons but I do have lots of trigger time. I do respect your opinion & its obvious that you know alot about weapons but please don't assume that the rest of us are fools. Thank you sir.

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Yes, I kill things with my weapons (in accordance with all game laws of course). What is the relevance of my hunting prowess to the this topic though?

I didn't call anyone a fool nor do I assume you or anyone else is a fool. I am not sure what you mean by "us". The only person I am questioning here is you.

I collect historical books too, I wish that more people would.

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I agree with you there! I also am an avid reader and collector of books. Hence, my intenet moniker. It is sad how history books have been re-written over the years isn't it?


Look, the bottom line here is that when I saw your first post about the gas rings I rolled my eyes. It just came across to me as someone who doesn't really know anything about the subject matter yet feels some need to interject information that they heard from some other source with little or no first-hand knowledge. It came across to me that way because that statement isn't true. Then in your subsequent post we find out that you really don't know a lot about AR-15 type weapons, don't have a lot of knowledge about them and actually prefer (and are a skilled builder of) AK and SKS type weapons. This really only serves to validate my point and original assumptions.

I see this behavior all the time on the internet and it bugs me. I deal with machine guns and hard use weapons for a living. I work with LE, military and contractors on a daily basis to provide them with gear that they will put through more "rough or extensive use" than you and I will ever see and not one of those weapons I've built or seen deployed used the aftermarket item you mentioned and these weapons all worked just fine.

I also roll my eyes at the guys who post that their low-end, bought at a gun show with no clue who manufactured it bolt is "just as good as" or "the same as" or (even better) "made by the same company as" a high-end manufacturer. Those guys will never understand what it means to shot peen a bolt or what MP testing is and why it might be important to some folks. It isn't worth trying to educate most of those people because the reality is that most guys shoot their weapons very little and the lower end stuff will probably serve them very well. The guys who actually put their guns through real hard use will eventually figure it out. But, every now and again I do see something that rubs me the wrong way and I try to educate people.

I admit I don't always go about it the right way. Late last night when I saw your comment I couldn't help but post something in a "smart behind" kind of way. For that, I apologize. But it really wasn't intended in any way other than a silly way. I wasn't trying to offend you.

So, sorry if you took offense. That wasn't my intent.

Hope you have a good rest of the day. Don't let silly internet disagreements bother you. In the end they aren't worth the effort or trouble.

Take care.

Mark

I too am a RRA fan - in my opinion, you can't go wrong with them. That being said, in the old days (5 or 6 years ago) the rule was "stick with ABC's" - Armalite, Bushmaster, Colt. You won't go wrong with those either.

Yes sir, thats exactly how i feel. You are correct in that my knowledge of the Stoner type weapons platform is much more limited than that of the Kalashnikov. I thankfully support our soldiers & Marines & know 5 or 6 personally that are in Afghanistan & we speak about their weapons experience whenever we get to talk. As far as history goes I am big into the 1900-1950 period. From the end of the Western age in the US & the nationalist aspirations in Europe that started the Great War. Then from the Japenese expansion beginning in China & spreading down the Malay peninsula to Java & Borneo. I am most interested in the Russo-Japanese conflicts in 1939 in Mongolia & finally 1945 in Manchuria/Manchuko. Talk about some die-hard folks both but the Soviet armor was devastating in 1939 & 1945. Good to talk to you sir & maybe we can meet up sometime, possibly at the August 8th meet as Im plan on attending with my friend Carl. Thanks Jacob Mingo

Jacob some day I'm going to have you build me one of those rifles you had when you came to see me. regards Doug

BookHound said:

I very much agree and that isn't my intent. However, when I see someone posting erroneous information I do make an effort to correct them. People use boards like this one to gain information and it doesn't help if other folks are passing on information about which they really know nothing.



So, you don't thoroughly research things on the internet yet find meaningless old presentations that offer zero facts to support your insistence that a certain aftermarket part is necessary (a "must") in ARs that will have "rough or extensive use." Interesting.

Your skill for building and knowledge of other weapon platforms isn't being questioned here.



Yes, I kill things with my weapons (in accordance with all game laws of course). What is the relevance of my hunting prowess to the this topic though?

I didn't call anyone a fool nor do I assume you or anyone else is a fool. I am not sure what you mean by "us". The only person I am questioning here is you.



I agree with you there! I also am an avid reader and collector of books. Hence, my intenet moniker. It is sad how history books have been re-written over the years isn't it?


Look, the bottom line here is that when I saw your first post about the gas rings I rolled my eyes. It just came across to me as someone who doesn't really know anything about the subject matter yet feels some need to interject information that they heard from some other source with little or no first-hand knowledge. It came across to me that way because that statement isn't true. Then in your subsequent post we find out that you really don't know a lot about AR-15 type weapons, don't have a lot of knowledge about them and actually prefer (and are a skilled builder of) AK and SKS type weapons. This really only serves to validate my point and original assumptions.

I see this behavior all the time on the internet and it bugs me. I deal with machine guns and hard use weapons for a living. I work with LE, military and contractors on a daily basis to provide them with gear that they will put through more "rough or extensive use" than you and I will ever see and not one of those weapons I've built or seen deployed used the aftermarket item you mentioned and these weapons all worked just fine.

I also roll my eyes at the guys who post that their low-end, bought at a gun show with no clue who manufactured it bolt is "just as good as" or "the same as" or (even better) "made by the same company as" a high-end manufacturer. Those guys will never understand what it means to shot peen a bolt or what MP testing is and why it might be important to some folks. It isn't worth trying to educate most of those people because the reality is that most guys shoot their weapons very little and the lower end stuff will probably serve them very well. The guys who actually put their guns through real hard use will eventually figure it out. But, every now and again I do see something that rubs me the wrong way and I try to educate people.

I admit I don't always go about it the right way. Late last night when I saw your comment I couldn't help but post something in a "smart behind" kind of way. For that, I apologize. But it really wasn't intended in any way other than a silly way. I wasn't trying to offend you.

So, sorry if you took offense. That wasn't my intent.

Hope you have a good rest of the day. Don't let silly internet disagreements bother you. In the end they aren't worth the effort or trouble.

Take care.

Mark

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Bookhound,

Then look at this as an opportunity to educate sportsmen and women who have limited use with an AR type weapon.

You made the comment that some people say buy "whatever" b/c their parts are all made by 3 or 4 manufacturers. You stated/implied that it is hopeless to try to explain to these individuals why some brands are better than others due to the process of construction of said parts.

I'm one of those people, because isn't it true for most of us i.e. blue collar and white collar workers that most any Bushmaster, Rock River, DPMS, Armalite, and/or Stag will fit our needs just fine? If the truth be known for most of us guys and gals our guns sit in storage more than they are carried and/or shot.

So, I'm not typing these words to be argumentative. I'm typing them in request. Take the time to share your experience and knowledge with the rest of us.

You and Mingo have stated that you both love History books. When I was in school we learned from books and the teachers. In today's time, there is hardly a need for a textbook in the classroom. Ideally, each student would have a laptop and internet access at their desk. There is so much to learn on the internet - good stuff - despite the negatives, the good still outweighs it.

So, just call this place the cyber classroom/training ground, and when it comes to AR's you get to be the professor.

Most of us can't afford to buy 10 or so ARs to test and learn from. So, we have to rely on the experience and knowledge of others like you.

My comments are typed with respect and sincerity.

Have a good one.

Lesson One: An un-staked castle nut can be "shot" loose.

That's a fun one.

The frustration is that, when buying a new weapon, the end-user shouldn't have to fix it, just to run properly through rough treatment.

The M4 and M16 are built to a set of standards, different from most of the commercial stuff available. Erroneously, people will go out and buy an AR-15, assuming it's "just like the Army's".

Typically, it's not.

Some of it's majour, some of it's minor. Regardless of what the salesmen at the gun shops say, the AR-15s they're passing across the counter are most likely NOT mil-spec. If I had a penny for everytime I've seen a DPMS cross the counter, only to hear the salesperson say, "It's mil-spec...blah...blah...blah".

No. It's not.

It's really this simple: Not all AR-15s are created equally.

Some use high quality parts. Some do not. Some have extremely rigorous QC/QA programs. Most do not.

It's safe to say that if you stick with a certain family of manufacturers you will be GTG.

A good place to start is Rob Sloyer's "Chart".

http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=pwswheghNQsEuEhjFwPrgTA&single=true&gid=5&output=html

If you have, like I do, a lower tier AR-15, the corners the factory/manufacturer cut can be overcome through just a little bit of work.

Instead of getting ****y, and lying to myself that "Bushmaster is just as good, gosh-darnit", I cowboy'd up, and started fixing what the factory was too lazy to do.

There's something monunmentally sucky about paying top dollar for a weapon system, only to find out I could have had something better for the same money.

P.S. If anyone wants to trade me a Daniel Defense XV for a Bushmaster Modular Carbine, PM me.

TheLandlord said:

Lesson One: An un-staked castle nut can be "shot" loose.

That's a fun one.

The frustration is that, when buying a new weapon, the end-user shouldn't have to fix it, just to run properly through rough treatment.

The M4 and M16 are built to a set of standards, different from most of the commercial stuff available. Erroneously, people will go out and buy an AR-15, assuming it's "just like the Army's".

Typically, it's not.

Some of it's majour, some of it's minor. Regardless of what the salesmen at the gun shops say, the AR-15s they're passing across the counter are most likely NOT mil-spec. If I had a penny for everytime I've seen a DPMS cross the counter, only to hear the salesperson say, "It's mil-spec...blah...blah...blah".

No. It's not.

It's really this simple: Not all AR-15s are created equally.

Some use high quality parts. Some do not. Some have extremely rigorous QC/QA programs. Most do not.

It's safe to say that if you stick with a certain family of manufacturers you will be GTG.

A good place to start is Rob Sloyer's "Chart".

http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=pwswheghNQsEuEhjFwPrgTA&single=true&gid=5&output=html

If you have, like I do, a lower tier AR-15, the corners the factory/manufacturer cut can be overcome through just a little bit of work.

Instead of getting ****y, and lying to myself that "Bushmaster is just as good, gosh-darnit", I cowboy'd up, and started fixing what the factory was too lazy to do.

There's something monunmentally sucky about paying top dollar for a weapon system, only to find out I could have had something better for the same money.

P.S. If anyone wants to trade me a Daniel Defense XV for a Bushmaster Modular Carbine, PM me.

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I saw a post a guy made in uh nevermind...............you gonna have to pony up and trade two Bushmasters or DPMS's to get that DD rifle you want.

What's the word on Del-Ton quality??

IIRC, they use a lower-grade of steel for the barrels, don't perform MPI on individual parts (batch only), etc.

I suppose for punching paper, they're fine, but I wouldn't consider a complete Del-Ton combat-ready.