How Did We Come to Exist?

atlashunter · May 30, 2011

What other possibility is there in light of the laws of physics that you have been putting forward? If all of the energy in the universe were present at the big bang then where are you seeing creation of energy from nothing?

fishinbub · May 30, 2011

atlashunter said:
What other possibility is there in light of the laws of physics that you have been putting forward? If all of the energy in the universe were present at the big bang then where are you seeing creation of energy from nothing?

Energy and matter are interdependent. It is impossible to have energy without matter. How can you have energy prior to the big bang?

bullethead · May 30, 2011

The big bang may have well been for THIS universe, created from matter from another universe and so on and so on and so on. It could be a reoccurring loop in that the universe might re-create itself over time. Time is the culprit we cannot comprehend and time is the key to our answers. We want instant gratification and it is easiest to owe it all to some being just like ourselves, but better......I doubt it folks. Hundreds of billions on years or more seems supernatural and thats about it.

fishinbub · May 30, 2011

bullethead said:
The big bang may have well been for THIS universe, created from matter from another universe and so on and so on and so on. It could be a reoccurring loop in that the universe might re-create itself over time. Time is the culprit we cannot comprehend and time is the key to our answers. We want instant gratification and it is easiest to owe it all to some being just like ourselves, but better......I doubt it folks. Hundreds of billions on years or more seems supernatural and thats about it.

Sorry, but that is the worst cop-out I've ever heard.

atlashunter · May 30, 2011

fishinbub you still haven't answered the question. Big Bang Theory doesn't assert any energy creation. All the "stuff" of the universe was there. What happened before that is a question mark. We don't know that energy was "created" at all much less what would have created it if it was. But to be able to ask the question "what created it?" you first have to establish that it was in fact created and that hasn't been established. Citing laws that state energy can't be created or destroyed hardly helps make your case.

bullethead · May 30, 2011

fishinbub said:
Sorry, but that is the worst cop-out I've ever heard.

Yes, a cop-out. What I meant to say was my imaginary friend who ALWAYS existed, even though I argue that nothing else can always exist, made it, us and everything because he was bored and NEEDED some creatures to worship him. My friend sees everything, knows everything, is all powerful, infallible and inerrant except he is shown to be all of those things or none of those things then he is above everyone's comprehension. No one knows how or what my friend thinks, but if you believe in my friend you somehow have a better grasp on the way he works and can speak for him. Bottom line is that ONLY my friend has always existed, nothing else so he made everything else.

Better?

atlashunter · May 30, 2011

Here is another question. If what we know about the universe requires or even suggests some supernatural first cause why don't cosmologists come to that conclusion?

fishinbub · May 30, 2011

atlashunter said:
fishinbub you still haven't answered the question. Big Bang Theory doesn't assert any energy creation. All the "stuff" of the universe was there. What happened before that is a question mark. We don't know that energy was "created" at all much less what would have created it if it was. But to be able to ask the question "what created it?" you first have to establish that it was in fact created and that hasn't been established. Citing laws that state energy can't be created or destroyed hardly helps make your case.

So, exactly what laws state that energy cannot be created or destroyed? Either you have an extremely poor grasp on scientific laws, or you are flat out trying to deceive folks. Care to explain how energy can be infinite, with no beginning and no end?

atlashunter · May 30, 2011

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservation_of_energy

The law of conservation of energy is a law of physics. It states that the total amount of energy in a system remains constant over time (is said to be conserved over time). A consequence of this law is that energy can neither be created nor destroyed: it can only be transformed from one state to another. The only thing that can happen to energy in a system is that it can change form: for instance chemical energy can become kinetic energy.

Albert Einstein's theory of relativity shows that mass is a form of energy (see rest mass energy) so they can transform one into another. So the distinction between "matter" particles (such as those constituting atoms) and energy particles (say photons of light) is not wide - they can turn one into other (see annihilation and matter creation). However, this conversion does not affect the total energy of closed systems.

So conservation of energy refers to the conservation of the total energy of an isolated system over time (including rest mass energy mc² associated with the rest mass of particles) and all other forms of energy (kinetic, potential, nuclear, chemical, thermal, etc.) in the system together.

A consequence of the law of energy conservation is that perpetual motion machines can only work perpetually if they deliver no energy to their surroundings.

atlashunter · May 30, 2011

So let's try this one more time since you prefer to ask questions rather than answer them.

Can you cite a time that energy was ever created?

fishinbub · May 30, 2011

atlashunter said:
So let's try this one more time since you prefer to ask questions rather than answer them.

Can you cite a time that energy was ever created?

Yes, but you tend to get offended when folks quote scripture in this forum.

If energy has been around forever, then the law of thermodynamics dictates that it would be evenly distributed throughout the universe, not in the small area require for a "big bang"...

atlashunter · May 30, 2011

atlashunter said:
Here is another question. If what we know about the universe requires or even suggests some supernatural first cause why don't cosmologists come to that conclusion?

Care to take a stab at this one?

fishinbub · May 30, 2011

atlashunter said:
Care to take a stab at this one?

You probably know more about what their recent "conclusions" are than I do. Last I heard it was something to the tune of "we don't know what the heck happened". Care to enlighten the rest of us?

bullethead · May 30, 2011

Knowledge is infinite. The more we seek the more we learn. Things that were thought as supernatural 100 years ago are simple now. We gain knowledge in leaps and bounds and in none of these gains is the supernatural an accepted final answer. The longer mankind is on earth the more we learn. The more we learn the less it points to an invisible being.

fishinbub · May 30, 2011

bullethead said:
Knowledge is infinite. The more we seek the more we learn. Things that were thought as supernatural 100 years ago are simple now. We gain knowledge in leaps and bounds and in none of these gains is the supernatural an accepted final answer. The longer mankind is on earth the more we learn. The more we learn the less it points to an invisible being.

So am I correct in your assumption that you are still working on that perpetual motion device? ::ke:

WTM45 · May 30, 2011

fishinbub said:
Sorry, but that is the worst cop-out I've ever heard.

You are eighteen years old.
You have not heard much.
That's simply how it is.
Youth is no insult. It is simply a reason for continued searching.

fishinbub · May 30, 2011

WTM45 said:
You are eighteen years old.
You have not heard much.
That's simply how it is.
Youth is no insult. It is simply a reason for continued searching.

Unless you are old enough to have witnessed the big bang, I fail to see how my age is relevant to the discussion.

bullethead · May 30, 2011

fishinbub said:
So am I correct in your assumption that you are still working on that perpetual motion device?

Working on it? I completed it 4 years ago and sold it to the Gov't in hopes that they use it to solve the oil problem. I am sure any day now it will surface.

A little over 100 years ago flight was unheard of and now we launch ships into space and return them home. Give it time. Everything is proven or dis-proven with time. I am leaning towards mankind will see a perpetual motion device long before some supernatural being is proven. I am curios in why you are asking for proof for all these scientific things but you require none for your religion?????

fishinbub · May 30, 2011

bullethead said:
I am curios in why you are asking for proof for all these scientific things but you require none for your religion?????

I've seen all the proof I need for my religion, but once again, we're in the wrong forum for that...

bullethead · May 30, 2011

fishinbub said:
I've seen all the proof I need for my religion, but once again, we're in the wrong forum for that...

Wrong forum indeed.

How Did We Come to Exist?

Senior Member

Senior Member

Of the hard cast variety

Senior Member

Senior Member

Of the hard cast variety

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Of the hard cast variety

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Of the hard cast variety

Senior Member

Of the hard cast variety

Similar threads

Share this page