Slave woman and her son?

hobbs27

Senior Member
Most assuredly I'm with you. No doubt about it. Now did it become this way after Israel refused or has the children of the promise never been genetic children of Abraham? Did something happen to make it switch? Is this the mystery revealed by Paul?

So if Romans 9 says it switched or it's always been why did Paul say in Romans 11;
28Regarding the gospel, they are enemies on your account; but regarding election, they are loved on account of the patriarchs. 29For God’s gifts and His call are irrevocable.

If their was no longer Jew or Gentile or there never was, It doesn't sound like that is what Paul is saying in Romans 11. He is saying that they just haven't had their veil removed like Paul had.

Are you saying that no one had eternal life prior to Christ's death?

of course. Is there another way?
 

Spineyman

Senior Member
Are you saying that no one had eternal life prior to Christ's death?

of course. Is there another way?
Ezekiel 36:24-26
God always made a way. Christ was also in the Old Testament too. He just wasn't revealed in the flesh.
A New Heart and Spirit
…24"For I will take you from the nations, gather you from all the lands and bring you into your own land. 25"Then I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean; I will cleanse you from all your filthiness and from all your idols. 26"Moreover, I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; and I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh.…
 

hobbs27

Senior Member
Ezekiel 36:24-26
God always made a way. Christ was also in the Old Testament too. He just wasn't revealed in the flesh.
A New Heart and Spirit
…24"For I will take you from the nations, gather you from all the lands and bring you into your own land. 25"Then I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean; I will cleanse you from all your filthiness and from all your idols. 26"Moreover, I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; and I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh.…

That's prophecy of the new covenant.
 

NE GA Pappy

Mr. Pappy
of course. Is there another way?

so, none of the phophet of old, none of the patriarchs, none of the leadership of the jewish nation had eternal life before Jesus was crucified?
 

hobbs27

Senior Member
Here's a biblical reality of death in the old covenant. Their only hope was as Martha stated concerning Lazarus. I know he will be raised in the last day.

Ecclesiastes 9:5-6New King James Version (NKJV)
5 For the living know that they will die;
But the dead know nothing,
And they have no more reward,
For the memory of them is forgotten.
6 Also their love, their hatred, and their envy have now perished;
Nevermore will they have a share
In anything done under the sun.
 

hobbs27

Senior Member
so, none of the phophet of old, none of the patriarchs, none of the leadership of the jewish nation had eternal life before Jesus was crucified?

That's Bible. They had to lay in the grave IE Hades until the resurrection of the dead.
 

hobbs27

Senior Member
so how do you explain Abraham's bossum and the story of Lazarus?

It's not what I first thought, and to explain it will take up to much time, it's an awesome story of the Kingdom though.

If you have time or interest, this is how I view the parable.

 

hobbs27

Senior Member
OK..???

A multi-person vision, that happened at the same time, and all the people saw the same thing.....

right.

It was a vision because the word of God calls it a vision.

Matthew 17:9 Now as they came down from the mountain, Jesus commanded them, saying, “Tell the vision to no one until the Son of Man is risen from the dead.”
 

NE GA Pappy

Mr. Pappy
It was a vision because the word of God calls it a vision.

Matthew 17:9 Now as they came down from the mountain, Jesus commanded them, saying, “Tell the vision to no one until the Son of Man is risen from the dead.”

Mark 9:9 As they were coming down the mountain, Jesus gave them orders not to tell anyone what they had seen until the Son of Man had risen from the dead.

Luke 9:28-36 doesn't reference it as a vision


Now you have a reference calling it a vision, and one saying what they had seen. Where is the plumb line of truth on this...

Hint, there are lots of other translations, and the vast majority interpret Matthew as "what they had seen" also
 

hobbs27

Senior Member
Mark 9:9 As they were coming down the mountain, Jesus gave them orders not to tell anyone what they had seen until the Son of Man had risen from the dead.

Luke 9:28-36 doesn't reference it as a vision


Now you have a reference calling it a vision, and one saying what they had seen. Where is the plumb line of truth on this...

Hint, there are lots of other translations, and the vast majority interpret Matthew as "what they had seen" also

I'm one that believes the Gospels compliment one another, not contradict. In this case, Matthew compliments the other Gospels by adding the fact that it was a vision. To say it wasn't, then means you believe Matthew contradicts the other Gospels.

Horama
http://biblehub.com/text/matthew/17-9.htm
 
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NE GA Pappy

Mr. Pappy
I'm one that believes the Gospels compliment one another, not contradict. In this case, Matthew compliments the other Gospels by adding the fact that it was a vision. To say it wasn't, then means you believe Matthew contradicts the other Gospels.

Horama
http://biblehub.com/text/matthew/17-9.htm

funny to me, when you look up the Greek 3705 in Strongs, it says the first definition is sight...second is vision. It also says it it a derivative of 3708... which is to stare at, to discren clearly, to behold, perceive, see, take heed of.

Sounds like "what they saw would be an accurate interpretation of the word to me
 

hobbs27

Senior Member
funny to me, when you look up the Greek 3705 in Strongs, it says the first definition is sight...second is vision. It also says it it a derivative of 3708... which is to stare at, to discren clearly, to behold, perceive, see, take heed of.

Sounds like "what they saw would be an accurate interpretation of the word to me

Visions are seen. I'm not going to quibble with you over this however. If youre satisfied Matthew 17:9 is an incorrect translation, that's on you.
 
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