Sin that doesn't lead to death.

hobbs27

Senior Member
I've been told sin is sin, no matter how big or small. I've been told we die because we sin.

What about the sin that doesn't lead to death? Any ideas? My ears are open, looking for opinions. What are/were these sins?

1John 5:16 If anyone sees his brother sinning a sin which does not lead to death, he will ask, and He will give him life for those who commit sin not leading to death. There is sin leading to death. I do not say that he should pray about that. 17 All unrighteousness is sin, and there is sin not leading to death.
 

Artfuldodger

Senior Member
That's a hard one. First who is our "brother" as referred to by Paul?

I wonder if he is talking about sins that could cause physical death vs sins that could lead to spiritual death?

So our brother's spiritual sins are what his true salvation is for yet he could still die an early physical death from say adultery or over drinking.
 

gordon 2

Senior Member
I've been told sin is sin, no matter how big or small. I've been told we die because we sin.

What about the sin that doesn't lead to death? Any ideas? My ears are open, looking for opinions. What are/were these sins?

1John 5:16 If anyone sees his brother sinning a sin which does not lead to death, he will ask, and He will give him life for those who commit sin not leading to death. There is sin leading to death. I do not say that he should pray about that. 17 All unrighteousness is sin, and there is sin not leading to death.

Different people have different ideas about what sin not leading to death is.

Some say that it is all sin except sin against the Holy Spirit by which they mean all sin except one.

Some say that it is ignorant sin, that is sin NOT willfully committed.

Here's my take from experience and not what others say:

Sins that are not specifically on the Ten Commandments list possibly don't lead to death. ( Note that Ten Commandment sins don't have to lead to eternal death or that I'm saying they do.)

Now the death here I understand to be eternal death as opposed to eternal life. The loss of the self, not knowing who " you really are or can be" in relation to everything else in creation and in God is most likely the death referenced here. I have to wonder if the degree of guilt felt, for those who can feel guilt, is not the killer regards sin. A person can die due to cowering guilt because such a person by default needs to hide from God... to cover themselves with all kinds of items-excuses real or supposed from creation... etc...

There are all kinds of sins, not on the list of the ten commandments, which inflame living as to make "seeing" obscured and trouble eternal life but they would not put an end to eternal life or partaking in eternal life.

Some examples of sins not leading to death would be selfishness, revenge, deceit, exceptionalism, false witness, racism, impatience, intolerance leading to systematic bigotry, sowing disorder, hatred, aggressiveness, hypocrisy, slander, indifference-disregard to the poor or strangers, indifference and disregard for the wealthy and familiar, not having respect for the self and others--taking as a wife your father's widow, heresy, dishonesty, indifference to others as you earn your daily bread, not answering your call to ministry, being ruled by the letter of a law or directive even which comes up against what is just and honest, not forgiving others as God forgives, surfing the lines where using the Lord's name would be in vain and you're just chancing against a wipe out... ( and on and on and on), foolishness, greed, negligence--withholding mercy.

Behaviors and ideals that guarantees to obscure the Lord's blessings but that do not remove a person's relationship with the Lord. Behaviors that flirt with creation...from the perspective of a fallen nature as opposed to a heavenly one.
 
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welderguy

Senior Member
I believe the death spoken of here by John is the same death spoken of by James. It's a conviction or condemning of the conscience. A feeling of guilt.
Sometimes we sin, and we are not convicted of it. We continue in it without being bothered by it. It may be simply from ignorance, or it may be from having our conscience seered, or hardened by the deceitfulness of sin. We need help from our brothers to pull us from these fires, because we have become incapable of ourselves.
 

gordon 2

Senior Member
I believe the death spoken of here by John is the same death spoken of by James. It's a conviction or condemning of the conscience. A feeling of guilt.
Sometimes we sin, and we are not convicted of it. We continue in it without being bothered by it. It may be simply from ignorance, or it may be from having our conscience seered, or hardened by the deceitfulness of sin. We need help from our brothers to pull us from these fires, because we have become incapable of ourselves.

^^^^This. Well and simply explained. :cool:
 

Big7

The Oracle
A venial sin (meaning "forgivable" sin) is a lesser sin that does not result in a complete separation from God and eternal dam*nation in He*ll as an unrepented mortal sin would.

(look up venial sin vs mortal sin)

Simple.

Next.
 

welderguy

Senior Member
A venial sin (meaning "forgivable" sin) is a lesser sin that does not result in a complete separation from God and eternal dam*nation in He*ll as an unrepented mortal sin would.

(look up venial sin vs mortal sin)

Simple.

Next.

If he's a brother(fellow believer), as the text states, then all his sins are venial. Agree?
 

Israel

BANNED
Different people have different ideas about what sin not leading to death is.

Some say that it is all sin except sin against the Holy Spirit by which they mean all sin except one.

Some say that it is ignorant sin, that is sin NOT willfully committed.

Here's my take from experience and not what others say:

Sins that are not specifically on the Ten Commandments list possibly don't lead to death. ( Note that Ten Commandment sins don't have to lead to eternal death or that I'm saying they do.)

Now the death here I understand to be eternal death as opposed to eternal life. The loss of the self, not knowing who " you really are or can be" in relation to everything else in creation and in God is most likely the death referenced here. I have to wonder if the degree of guilt felt, for those who can feel guilt, is not the killer regards sin. A person can die due to cowering guilt because such a person by default needs to hide from God... to cover themselves with all kinds of items-excuses real or supposed from creation... etc...

There are all kinds of sins, not on the list of the ten commandments, which inflame living as to make "seeing" obscured and trouble eternal life but they would not put an end to eternal life or partaking in eternal life.

Some examples of sins not leading to death would be selfishness, revenge, deceit, exceptionalism, false witness, racism, impatience, intolerance leading to systematic bigotry, sowing disorder, hatred, aggressiveness, hypocrisy, slander, indifference-disregard to the poor or strangers, indifference and disregard for the wealthy and familiar, not having respect for the self and others--taking as a wife your father's widow, heresy, dishonesty, indifference to others as you earn your daily bread, not answering your call to ministry, being ruled by the letter of a law or directive even which comes up against what is just and honest, not forgiving others as God forgives, surfing the lines where using the Lord's name would be in vain and you're just chancing against a wipe out... ( and on and on and on), foolishness, greed, negligence--withholding mercy.

Behaviors and ideals that guarantees to obscure the Lord's blessings but that do not remove a person's relationship with the Lord. Behaviors that flirt with creation...from the perspective of a fallen nature as opposed to a heavenly one.


I believe the death spoken of here by John is the same death spoken of by James. It's a conviction or condemning of the conscience. A feeling of guilt.
Sometimes we sin, and we are not convicted of it. We continue in it without being bothered by it. It may be simply from ignorance, or it may be from having our conscience seered, or hardened by the deceitfulness of sin. We need help from our brothers to pull us from these fires, because we have become incapable of ourselves.

Joyous.
 

gordon 2

Senior Member

Sin ( the subject of the effect of) and joyousness? :biggrin3:

The cause of sin is still up for grabs... even the Popes state, despite good sources, don't know why-how it came into being. The account of the original being nebulous in Genesis to many eminently qualified to make declaration, it should not stop our efforts in this forum as is our custom with other difficult items.

It is in this spirit, the spirit of a Hail Mary idea is better than no idea, and it greatly enhance by some sort of cleavage to scripture...even at odds with which the vast body of tradition has declared on this and that I propose to humbly declare my idea as to where and why sin came into the world.

We hopefully? can all agree that it came into the world of man as related in scripture when Eve picked out the fruit from the tree of good and evil and supped with her beau on it. The consequences are a bit different depending on the sect your about, but generally...it led to a net loss vs a net gain for the life of man.

Now why sin came into the world because of this event is the issue....

My input for the forumors at least is as this:

In fetching sustenance from creation, and from man, himself a creation, as to issues of moral, of good and evil man is not all in with being sustained by God alone.

Man has chosen nature, and therefore now his fallen nature, as a life giving force and as his teacher and healer.

Inversely man can choose a life giving force-being-spirit outside of creation, incorruptible and immune to error, as calling teacher and healer.

In our world even today it is not always clear that a little nature time or feet in the sand time is not a remedy from the sins of the world. This is perhaps out of the belief that what makes us sick will possibly inoculate the injured.

In Christianity God is the teacher and the healer, not nature. God was and always will be...the tree of life which sustained man to an estate Christians now craves to regain.


For Adam and Eve before the loss not even the heavenly was possible to conceive maybe? Resurrection what is that? They having not need to anything so elevated as the heavens in this world today. The scales of measure were somehow quite different? More different as said from night and day... etc...
 
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