Arguments agains Atheism by some of todays best thinkers

WaltL1 · Jan 24, 2018

TripleXBullies said:
That's an interesting way to put it. If I was to subscribe to that then I guess I'd hope that I was elected. How could I know that I was?

Does this explanation for predestination lead you to be more comfortable with your current stance that Christianity is not true? Because it's how he made you to be anyway.

Interesting question.
For me, Ive never really considered it from that angle.
Probably because based on my religious upbringing, I don't remember a "some are chosen to believe, some are not" type thing. It was ANYBODY/EVERYBODY qualified as long as you believed and went along with the program.
So the concept of "God made me NOT to believe" never really crosses my mind.

oldfella1962 · Jan 24, 2018

ambush80 said:
From what I can tell from the predestination guys here they believe that you will know by the fruits. They seem to accept that they might not actually be elect but they believe that they should act like it.

If Christianity is true then I'm doing what I'm supposed to be doing and I may end up being one of the elect after all. To believe I would still need some just for me revelation.

"you will know by their fruits" always gets me to thinking: let's take for example a lifelong Christian who is a dedicated expert theologian preacher and has "checked every block" the Bible says to check in their daily living. Giving thankfully 10 percent of their income to the church, encouraged thousands to repent & accept Jesus, etc. etc. By their fruits anyone can plainly see they are heaven bound.

Then one day they are found dead with a cocktail of drugs in their system in a murder-suicide with a tranny hooker and millions of dollars in faithful church member offerings in their personal bank account.

So one day their fruits show they are at the right hand of God and the next day not so much. My point is other humans cannot discern who is truly saved/dedicated/faithful by outside appearances of living the Christian life AKA "being known by their fruits."

WaltL1 · Jan 24, 2018

oldfella1962 said:
"you will know by their fruits" always gets me to thinking: let's take for example a lifelong Christian who is a dedicated expert theologian preacher and has "checked every block" the Bible says to check in their daily living. Giving thankfully 10 percent of their income to the church, encouraged thousands to repent & accept Jesus, etc. etc. By their fruits anyone can plainly see they are heaven bound.

Then one day they are found dead with a cocktail of drugs in their system in a murder-suicide with a tranny hooker and millions of dollars in faithful church member offerings in their personal bank account.

So one day their fruits show they are at the right hand of God and the next day not so much. My point is other humans cannot discern who is truly saved/dedicated/faithful by outside appearances of living the Christian life AKA "being known by their fruits."

Great point.
Add it to the long list of contradictions.
"Only God can know your heart"
" Judge them by their fruits".

oldfella1962 · Jan 24, 2018

WaltL1 said:
Great point.
Add it to the long list of contradictions.
"Only God can know your heart"
" Judge them by their fruits".

and then we get hit with "Judge not lest ye be judged."

That's pretty much "splitting the difference" between the two I guess.

Israel · Jan 30, 2018

TripleXBullies said:
That's an interesting way to put it. If I was to subscribe to that then I guess I'd hope that I was elected. How could I know that I was?

Does this explanation for predestination lead you to be more comfortable with your current stance that Christianity is not true? Because it's how he made you to be anyway.

That's a very good question.

On whom must you depend for answer?

bullethead · Jan 30, 2018

Israel said:
That's a very good question.

On whom must you depend for answer?

Depends on whoever the person believes in as their god doesn't it?

TripleXBullies · Jan 30, 2018

Israel said:
That's a very good question.

On whom must you depend for answer?

I'm not a pred, so IDK.

Israel · Jan 30, 2018

What's a pred?

gemcgrew · Jan 30, 2018

TripleXBullies said:
I'm not a pred, so IDK.

Do you not purpose previous to doing?

ambush80 · Jan 31, 2018

gemcgrew said:
Do you not purpose previous to doing?

People do many things and they don't know why, like spasm.

bullethead · Jan 31, 2018

gemcgrew said:
Do you not purpose previous to doing?

Like a computer program?

At such and such a time you roll over in your sleep. Then a dream about not being able to remember your school locker combination. Then after the alarm goes off to wake up you will stub your toe on the cedar chest. Then a yawn. Brush teeth. Start coffee. Toaster is supposed to short out. Etc etc etc of every second of every day?

A Robot?

gemcgrew · Jan 31, 2018

ambush80 said:
People do many things and they don't know why, like spasm.

Is that why you moved my question from one object to another? If you didn't do that with purpose, was it rational on your part?

ambush80 · Feb 1, 2018

gemcgrew said:
Is that why you moved my question from one object to another? If you didn't do that with purpose, was it rational on your part?

Sorry, maybe I didn't understand your first question. I interpreted it to ask whether or not people think of a reason to do something before they do it. Neurophisics seems to show that they don't.

660griz · Mar 2, 2018

Just the title alone made me laugh:
"Arguments agains Atheism by some of todays best thinkers"

Israel · Mar 2, 2018

Pat...I'd like to buy another "T"?

(But, to be fair, it said best thinkers not best spelers)

660griz · Mar 6, 2018

Israel said:
Pat...I'd like to buy another "T"?

(But, to be fair, it said best thinkers not best spelers)

To be clear, I wasn't referring to the missing 'T'.

oldfella1962 · Mar 6, 2018

660griz said:
To be clear, I wasn't referring to the missing 'T'.

Maybe this argument was presented by today's best drinkers.

660griz · Mar 9, 2018

oldfella1962 said:
Maybe this argument was presented by today's best drinkers.

That would explain it.

jmharris23 · May 2, 2018

Ambush, you asked a lot of good questions in here. Sorry I was so late to the game

ambush80 · May 2, 2018

jmharris23 said:
Ambush, you asked a lot of good questions in here. Sorry I was so late to the game

Chime in any time!

Arguments agains Atheism by some of todays best thinkers

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