We don't attend church?

1gr8bldr said:

But my children are not motivated, being out of church, to study what the bible says, enough to stand firm, on solid ground. This concerns me.

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and well it should. There is nothing that says they won't struggle with their beliefs even if they are heavily involve in a church group, but if they are not involved in a church group, this is almost a given.

1gr8bldr said:

Being out of church, I am concerned about my children, now teenagers. I have studied and determined what it is that I believe and am committed to it. But my children are not motivated, being out of church, to study what the bible says, enough to stand firm, on solid ground. This concerns me.

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I'm glad it does bother you because you are the leader of the household. Being burned in church like you was breaks my heart as a pastor. I want to help and be an encouragement to the members of our church. I just don't understand how some so called preachers can be this way. I guess I've been sheltered all my life being part of the best churches around. I've been burned bad to once in my life in church. Could have got out but The Lord never has done nothing wrong to me so I still have a desire in my heart to go faithfully to the house of The Lord. I'll be praying The Lord pricks your heart and you seek him to put you in the right church. What got my attention in your post was his wife's sister was going to be a preacher. Major red flags come up there. Find you an old fashion bible believing church where you can worship The Lord in spirit and in the truth. God bless you my friend and will be praying.

well my two cents as a minister...............I would never go to a church that yells at me or just preaches salvation only. once you get saved you need to learn HOW TO WALK .

clayservant said:

well my two cents as a minister...............I would never go to a church that yells at me or just preaches salvation only. once you get saved you need to learn HOW TO WALK .

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I think an interesting discussion would be this topic. I am to busy to keep it going. Wish someone else would. Can the church teach you how to walk? I would be on the opposite side. I came from a church where the pastor tried to teach people, everything... how to raise kids, when to spank, when to let them date, etc, etc. How to do everything. The arrogance in it was that he thought he was the most qualified to teach people how to act. I think it tramples the new covenant and glory of the Holy Spirit. But the conversation would be interesting because I realize that I often need to find moderation from the extreme

1gr8bldr said:

I think an interesting discussion would be this topic. I am to busy to keep it going. Wish someone else would. Can the church teach you how to walk? I would be on the opposite side. I came from a church where the pastor tried to teach people, everything... how to raise kids, when to spank, when to let them date, etc, etc. How to do everything. The arrogance in it was that he thought he was the most qualified to teach people how to act. I think it tramples the new covenant and glory of the Holy Spirit. But the conversation would be interesting because I realize that I often need to find moderation from the extreme

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My leaning post on this is perhaps like yours. The whole point of the Good News is that all things are new, especially that man does not teach man anymore but rather God himself teaches directly.

If this is to happen for the Church ( the gatherings of the faithful in worship) it seems to me that the Church must be at least the mystical body of Christ as Paul explains it perhaps. Teaching has to come from more than one person's charisma and anointing or a single person's terry with and understanding of the Holy Spirit. The HS indwells in all the baptized in unseen degrees perhaps.

There is a fine line between pastors preaching or any saint's testimony of their unique life experiences, individual and social, as examples of walking in the spirit, and the walk itself where Christ is present at their every step. The Christ I know is surrounded by all the saints and not just my pastor. And I am not the first kid on the block to have the HS as a teacher.

For example, it is easy for a pastor to preach on what scripture says regards marital problems especially if he is hip deep in them himself. He, or anyone else, should not assume that in this regard that the simplest saint in the room to which he ministers to regard marriage, might be a mightier example and minister to him.

In Christ all things are possible, perhaps.

gordon 2 said:

My leaning post on this is perhaps like yours. The whole point of the Good News is that all things are new, especially that man does not teach man anymore but rather God himself teaches directly.

If this is to happen for the Church ( the gatherings of the faithful in worship) it seems to me that the Church must be at least the mystical body of Christ as Paul explains it perhaps. Teaching has to come from more than one person's charisma and anointing or a single person's terry with and understanding of the Holy Spirit. The HS indwells in all the baptized in unseen degrees perhaps.

There is a fine line between pastors preaching or any saint's testimony of their unique life experiences, individual and social, as examples of walking in the spirit, and the walk itself where Christ is present at their every step. The Christ I know is surrounded by all the saints and not just my pastor. And I am not the first kid on the block to have the HS as a teacher.

For example, it is easy for a pastor to preach on what scripture says regards marital problems especially if he is hip deep in them himself. He, or anyone else, should not assume that in this regard that the simplest saint in the room to which he ministers to regard marriage, might be a mightier example and minister to him.

In Christ all things are possible, perhaps.

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Thinking of this, it recalls to mind..... stand firm... spur one another on toward love and good works..... fellowship..... Originally, I likely sounded as if the church teaches nothing. I don't actually believe it to that extreme, just thinking that the conversation will prompt me to think it through better. I would like to observe the discussion of those who believe the church does teach things like, raising kids, etc. I would hope I could prompt the discussion without sounding as if I were arguing my point. I always fear that is how I am perceived

1gr8bldr said:

Thinking of this, it recalls to mind..... stand firm... spur one another on toward love and good works..... fellowship..... Originally, I likely sounded as if the church teaches nothing. I don't actually believe it to that extreme, just thinking that the conversation will prompt me to think it through better. I would like to observe the discussion of those who believe the church does teach things like, raising kids, etc. I would hope I could prompt the discussion without sounding as if I were arguing my point. I always fear that is how I am perceived

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Well, first off my church teaches that the union of a male and female is not worldly and what my church teaches on this union is that it needs to strive to be saintly and to be a saintly example to children as they grow up. In this way the love of Christ is witnessed to children. So what is to be searched for in scripture is Christ, as opposed to rules. And what is to be preached or witnessed is Christ as opposed to the wisdom within the Mosaic covenant. Christ and the Spirit of Christ is what the church strives to teach as the way to raise a family. This is not always easy to learn.

I'm am sure others have differing experiences.

1gr8bldr said:

They should assume it in good hands.

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Disagree. Doing so allows for non-sense, and they become complicit via blind support. The hand's as important as the eye as important as the foot sorta thing.

1gr8bldr said:

I think an interesting discussion would be this topic. I am to busy to keep it going. Wish someone else would. Can the church teach you how to walk? I would be on the opposite side. I came from a church where the pastor tried to teach people, everything... how to raise kids, when to spank, when to let them date, etc, etc. How to do everything. The arrogance in it was that he thought he was the most qualified to teach people how to act. I think it tramples the new covenant and glory of the Holy Spirit. But the conversation would be interesting because I realize that I often need to find moderation from the extreme

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What is taught is always and only by example. What we cannot demonstrate in life, becomes only an embarrassment to us, as it must, if we think "our own" words carry any eternal weight.
I speak not as one who has attained anything, but just one who knows what embarrassment is.

Israel said:

What is taught is always and only by example. What we cannot demonstrate in life, becomes only an embarrassment to us, as it must, if we think "our own" words carry any eternal weight.
I speak not as one who has attained anything, but just one who knows what embarrassment is.

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Could you explain in a bit more detail what you mean by "What is taught is always and only by example."

What is this about? To teach by example?

Did not Paul say to some congregation that it was OK for them to view him as an example in that they could imitate him? He Paul was their example.

15For if you were to have countless tutors in Christ, yet you would not have many fathers, for in Christ Jesus I became your father through the gospel. 16Therefore I exhort you, be imitators of me. 1 Corinthians 4:16

And how can it be reconciled in Matthew with what Paul says here?

But do not be called Rabbi; for One is your Teacher, and you are all brothers. 9"Do not call anyone on earth your father; for One is your Father, He who is in heaven. 10"Do not be called leaders; for One is your Leader, that is, Christ.… Matthew 23:9

And the word became flesh.

"before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?"

Till then...it may be words...even great words...wonderful and wholly agreeable words we cannot deny the wisdom of.

But, "a body thou hast prepared for me"...and Jesus really died. In our sight. For us. Greater love has no man than this...yet...there is a greater love than man has...to lay down his life...for his enemies.

"And you -- once being alienated, and enemies in the mind, in the evil works, yet now did he reconcile"

Jesus didn't die for me when I was his friend.

For one will hardly die for a righteous man; though perhaps for the good man someone would dare even to die. But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from the wrath of God through Him...

How to "show" this, this manifestation of what I believe...many here have helped with, in far more than word. They have "loved me"...not by telling me they love me...but by speaking truth to me, at a cost I now recognize in some measure.
And not by telling me "you need to be more kind"...but by being kind to me...when I wasn't.

Yes, Paul was able to say to his beloved children...The things you have learned and received and heard and seen in me, practice these things, and the God of peace will be with you.

For he followed diligently He of whom was written:

In my former book, Theophilus,
I wrote about all that Jesus began to do and to teach

His death set his seal in blood to his words. His resurrection set God's seal to His being both Lord and Christ.

And I have not yet striven to the shedding of blood, so I am worthy of no attention. And if by God's grace I find myself made able...then... infinitely less attention is its perfection.
So...any attention at all, even now...is pure grace immeasurable among you.

NOWHERE, did Jesus ever command... "go to church". But He did have LOTS of other commands. so WHY would a command He NEVER gave... be MORE important than ALL of the commands that He DID give...???

the reason why "going to church" is SO critical to 'christianity'... is that the false churches have taken over... and they want you in bondage to their 'flavor' of religion... thats why all baptists say you should be baptist... all lutherans say you should be lutheran... all pentecostals say you should be pentecostal.. etc etc etc...

well, if we THINK about this... none of those 'flavors' of christianity were around in Jesus' day. NONE. even tho all of them will say they go back to Jesus's day... hogwash. none of them do.

Jesus is looking for folks to keep HIS commands... not those of some man who stands behind a podium demanding you to attend HIS church for salvation... he wants you to attend HIS church so you can put YOUR money in HIS basket... so his kids will have a nice college education... you know like HARVARD... and he can drive a Benz instead of a yugo.

anyway... read the Words in Red (Bible)... that belong to Jesus and KEEP them... thats how we love Jesus... "if ye love Me... keep My words"... right?

forget about 'churchianity'... its so far from Jesus that if Jesus walked in their church... they would run Him out of there... peace.