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Native Americans in the census pre 1900
- Thread starter SarahFair
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There's always Canada or Mexico. Both are right next door.
That was almost clever.
Artfuldodger
Senior Member
Mixed races in the Florida panhandle.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dominickers
http://www.fl-genweb.org/how/holmes/dominickers.pdf
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dominickers
http://www.fl-genweb.org/how/holmes/dominickers.pdf
RUGERWARRIOR
Senior Member
You make this point as if it is just US history.
It is a world history fact that most nations or kingdoms or civilizations were built on these things.
Artfuldodger
Senior Member
Look at it from the bright side. We lead many a poor native souls from eternal death to everlasting life.
True. I guess I should be proud to be of this world.
It's just that some (I mean quite a few) of the things this country has done, and what made this country, are things I most certainly are not proud of my ancestors doing. It seems that when I bring up these points, some people (I'm not talking about you) bring up idiotic, butt-hurt remarks, like I insulted them personally (I did no such thing). I was simply talking about the past. Those same people seem to ignore the atrocities (there are quite a few of those) this country has done. We are not the infallible, untarnished, untouchable good guys of this world.
And to the people that jump my case about not being proud of the things that built this country, I ask of them: What does your bible say about pride?
True. I guess I should be proud to be of this world.
It's just that some (I mean quite a few) of the things this country has done, and what made this country, are things I most certainly are not proud of my ancestors doing. It seems that when I bring up these points, some people (I'm not talking about you) bring up idiotic, butt-hurt remarks, like I insulted them personally (I did no such thing). I was simply talking about the past. Those same people seem to ignore the atrocities (there are quite a few of those) this country has done. We are not the infallible, untarnished, untouchable good guys of this world.
And to the people that jump my case about not being proud of the things that built this country, I ask of them: What does your bible say about pride?
America is no different from the rest of the world in that regard, at all. Lots more countries kept up the slavery and genocide into the present time.
I recognize and feel for the atrocities perpetrated on the American tribes by the Europeans, but they probably pale in comparison to the atrocities perpetrated on my Celtic ancestors by the Romans and my Saxon and Viking ancestors. World history is a constant story of conquest, war, genocide, and subjugation. Conquest, genocide, and slavery were also commonly practiced by the same Native American tribes that we are talking about, just like the rest of the human race. Most of the African slaves brought to America would have lived out their lives as slaves in Africa had they not come here, also; as most African tribes also practiced slavery, conquest, and genocide.
Artfuldodger
Senior Member
I think we can look at it and learn from it but at the same time we don't have to be proud or guilty about what our ancestors did when it comes to conquest, genocide, and slavery.
True. I guess I should be proud to be of this world.
It's just that some (I mean quite a few) of the things this country has done, and what made this country, are things I most certainly are not proud of my ancestors doing. It seems that when I bring up these points, some people (I'm not talking about you) bring up idiotic, butt-hurt remarks, like I insulted them personally (I did no such thing). I was simply talking about the past. Those same people seem to ignore the atrocities (there are quite a few of those) this country has done. We are not the infallible, untarnished, untouchable good guys of this world.
And to the people that jump my case about not being proud of the things that built this country, I ask of them: What does your bible say about pride?
Phooey. Since 1776 Americans have done a lot of things wrong. In that regard we are no different than any other nation in the history of mankind. The difference is America has risen above most of those things and today is head and shoulders above every other civilization in the history of man in spite of her many continuing faults and weaknesses and we have come farther faster than any other nation in history.
As far as
Double phooey on that. Evil things are not what "made this country". What made this country is "We hold these truths to be self evident...." Actualizing that concept isn't a snap of the fingers. The Founders admitted that in the preamble to the Constitution - "in order to form a more perfect union...". We are, always have been and always will be a work in progress. So far we have made steady progress in the direction the founders laid out for us and it's a better direction than anybody else on the planet is steering.
Pity the poor Americans of the future that have your attitude about the past. They will have so much more to "atone" for. Now that would be truly idiotic butt hurt stuff.
You make some good points, which are true. But you seem to be ignoring some things. Well, maybe you are one of us old flatulators that still believe some of the utter garbage and outright lies that was taught to us in our early school textbooks. I do not do so. If you are not aware, the victor always writes the history.
Am I proud of the good things this country has done? Yes.
Am I proud of the atrocities? No.
My net total on that: Maybe 35-40% on the "proud" side.
Oh, and I am also aware of the atrocities that my other ancestors (Cherokee) made. Those were quite horrible too. They owned slaves. They were ridiculously greedy. And their demise (without a doubt) is that they became too "white". Greed runs the world. Always has. Always will. Period. However, I am a little proud of them every time I learn about them killing someone who stole or tried to steal the land they lived on. But that's just the Injun in me. Then again, those "savages" didn't have a bible to guide them. Trouble is, the honkeys did.
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No, I'm not ignoring anything. There are still bad things wrong with this country and there always will be. We're still better than everybody else on this planet put together back to the dawn of civilization. If the people keep their wits about them we will continue to move forward and refine that "more perfect union" we accede to.
I bear no shame for the past and I harbor no ill will against the people who came before me. Our history is what it is. I can't change it. All I can do is learn from it and strive to do my part to move us forward and yes I am proud to be an American. In spite of all our faults we're the best that's ever been. Like Babe Ruth said - "It ain't braggin' if ya' done it."
Good and valid points. I might toss you a beer while you throw one at my head. But I'm quick, would duck, and you would miss.
westcobbdog
Senior Member
Good and valid points. I might toss you a beer while you throw one at my head. But I'm quick, would duck, and you would miss.
From years of signing checks ELFii's arm has to be shot...really doubt he could land a head /beer shot at close distance..
Artfuldodger
Senior Member
those "savages" didn't have a bible to guide them. Trouble is, the honkeys did.
That would make a good topic in the Religious forum!
karen936
Head Researcher, McDurdellson Enterprises, Inc.
I'm related to the parch band of eastern creeks.
I have the family tree that someone gave me.
Our family records burned in a Florida fire before we could
file when I was around 10 I think. I have a bunch of papers
but, I can't make heads or tails of it. The person I am related to
was James B. Ward.
I have the family tree that someone gave me.
Our family records burned in a Florida fire before we could
file when I was around 10 I think. I have a bunch of papers
but, I can't make heads or tails of it. The person I am related to
was James B. Ward.
redneck_billcollector
Purveyor Of Fine Spirits
There were around 800 who stayed and they had to renounce their tribal affiliation and assimilate those who did not were not legal. The State of N.C. did not recognize them until 1870 and gave them legal status that year as native americans. The US government did not recognize them until the 20th century. The land they lived on was purchased by a white man, an adopted son of a member of that band, by the name of Will Thomas who purchased the land because it was illegal to be an indian in NC and therefor anyone claiming to be one could not own land. They had a very unique status because they were in violation of the removal act and basically had an "iffy" status until the issue arose during the War Between the States. Due to their service to the State of NC during the war the legislation was passed in 1870. In the 1830s the Cherokees sued twice and won, both cases went to the US Supreme Court, where they also won, against removal, but ol' Andy told the Court where they could stick it and proceeded with removal. (All of this is from their own website.) The Stay you mentioned was won in the US Supreme Court....and ignored by the Federal and State Governments. The Stay prohibited the implementation of the removal act against all the Cherokees....President Jackson and Congress ignored it and proceeded to remove them all. The eastern band actually resisted it with arms to some extent leading to their leader's execution eventually, his name was Tsali. This is all from other historic sources and not the Eastern Band's official site.
redneck_billcollector
Purveyor Of Fine Spirits
True. I guess I should be proud to be of this world.
It's just that some (I mean quite a few) of the things this country has done, and what made this country, are things I most certainly are not proud of my ancestors doing. It seems that when I bring up these points, some people (I'm not talking about you) bring up idiotic, butt-hurt remarks, like I insulted them personally (I did no such thing). I was simply talking about the past. Those same people seem to ignore the atrocities (there are quite a few of those) this country has done. We are not the infallible, untarnished, untouchable good guys of this world.
And to the people that jump my case about not being proud of the things that built this country, I ask of them: What does your bible say about pride?
Interesting post, the atrocities and slavery you talk about were justified at the time by the bible. The bible was utilized and was the number one justification for the exterpitation of the natives and taking their lands because they were "heathens" and this land was to be the new Eden for the protestant peoples who came here. The bible was also used to justify slavery, with what became to be known in Judeo-Christian circles in the later 19th Century as the "White Man's Burden" to bring civilization and Christianity to all the non-white people. I normally do not put religion in my discussions but I felt obliged here because you mention the very book which everyone used to justify what they were doing........
You need to go no further than to read the debates in Congress over both issues in the early 19th Century to see what I am talking about. The writings of Andrew Jackson also talk about this. The same can be said with regards to the debates in the various state legislatures.
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