Assurance of Salvation

rjcruiser

Senior Member
For the OSAS to be true, you would have to believe that you can be Baptized at age 12, live your next 80 years sinning every day, Break all of the commandments every day, for 80 years, never repent, never Pray, never attend Church, never do any good for anyone, then die and go straight to Heaven.

That is about the worst description of OSAS I think I've ever read.

I've always been amazed at some people's/group's preoccupation with this subject.
It certainly wasn't a subject that any of the apostles or disciples taught in book of Acts.
The subject itself is not taught in Romans or any of the other writings.
OSAS is a phrase I never ever speak or hear until I get on this forum. I don't study it in the Bible, and I don't need it to find comfort and assurance of my own salvation.
Jesus is the Lord of my life, that's why I know I'm going to heaven.


Doctrine is important to discuss RonnieT. If it isn't taught or discussed, you end up with spiritual babes who are immature and open to being swept away by false teachers.

And...as far as Acts goes, Doctrine was brought up. Look at chapter 15. Didn't take long for a division about how works play a part in Salvation to come up.

Also, why was I John written?
 

barryl

Senior Member
Context

Here's a good one from Gal. (Speaking to Christians)

Galatians 5:4: 'You are separated from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by Law, you have fallen from grace."[I'll go ahead and remind you to RIGHTLY DIVIDE THE WORD OF GOD 2 tim. 2:15. Here we go, you who attempt to be JUSTIFIED BY LAW. Problem- mingling grace and Law, read the whole Chapter and put it in its proper context. A text without a context is a pretext. If you read a little further, Gal. 5:9 is a good'un too. By the way, what person in their right mind would want Salvation, if they could'nt be ASSURED of it !!!!!!! Sounds like a PRIDE thing to me!!! /QUOTE]
 

hobbs27

Senior Member
I've always been amazed at some people's/group's preoccupation with this subject.
It certainly wasn't a subject that any of the apostles or disciples taught in book of Acts.
The subject itself is not taught in Romans or any of the other writings.
OSAS is a phrase I never ever speak or hear until I get on this forum. le.

There's always going to be some kind of subject or doctrine that denominations will hang their hats on to justify themselves of being "Gods true people".
I never heard of Osas either....cause I never heard anyone dispute it until the Pentecostal movement grew and made its way in my area.To me the idea of losing salvation is relatively new, and I don't read about it in the Bible, and the saints of old that I have read and studied their insight to Gods word..I never found where they address the idea either way.
I strongly believe that Once you are born into Gods kingdom you are a new creature forever....but I can worship with and love my brothers and sisters that think they can lose that....as I tell my buddy that believes that way, I don't care how many times you nuts have to be saved as long as you get it right at least once.:bounce:
 

Ronnie T

Ol' Retired Mod
Here's a good one from Gal. (Speaking to Christians)

Galatians 5:4: 'You are separated from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by Law, you have fallen from grace."[I'll go ahead and remind you to RIGHTLY DIVIDE THE WORD OF GOD 2 tim. 2:15. Here we go, you who attempt to be JUSTIFIED BY LAW. Problem- mingling grace and Law, read the whole Chapter and put it in its proper context. A text without a context is a pretext. If you read a little further, Gal. 5:9 is a good'un too. By the way, what person in their right mind would want Salvation, if they could'nt be ASSURED of it !!!!!!! Sounds like a PRIDE thing to me!!! /QUOTE]

I wouldn't mind discussing the entire chapter with you if we live near enough to meet.
The Galation Christians are being invaded by false teachers and some in the church are falling for their teachings.

Born again, believing, Christians were being drawn into trusting in circumcision of the LAW as salvation. Rather than trusting in Jesus, they were trusting in "THE LAW" again.

Chap 5 is a high point in Paul's teachings to them in this letter.
In verse 4 Paul says that for any of them to attempt to be justified by the Law will separate them from Christ and they will thereby fall from grace.

*Note: A special calling by you to me for me to rightly divide the word will not prove you right and me wrong.
Let's discuss scripture.

And I can promise you that I'm not a person filled with pride. Oops, I guess that proves that I am. I got sins and shortcomings that I'd rather not share. I don't have a lot of confidence in myself, but I do in the One who's perfect.
 

barryl

Senior Member
History

There's always going to be some kind of subject or doctrine that denominations will hang their hats on to justify themselves of being "Gods true people".
I never heard of Osas either....cause I never heard anyone dispute it until the Pentecostal movement grew and made its way in my area.To me the idea of losing salvation is relatively new, and I don't read about it in the Bible, and the saints of old that I have read and studied their insight to Gods word..I never found where they address the idea either way.
I strongly believe that Once you are born into Gods kingdom you are a new creature forever....but I can worship with and love my brothers and sisters that think they can lose that....as I tell my buddy that believes that way, I don't care how many times you nuts have to be saved as long as you get it right at least once.:bounce:[It goes back to 1901 Topeka, Kansas or 1905 Azusa St. Mission !! Good post Hobbs/QUOTE]
 

centerpin fan

Senior Member
barryl, you gotta learn to use that quote function. You're leaving off the "[" in front of the "/QUOTE]". :)

OK, after rereading your post, you didn't leave it off. You've just got it in the wrong place:

[It goes back to 1901 Topeka, Kansas or 1905 Azusa St. Mission !! Good post Hobbs/QUOTE]
 

centerpin fan

Senior Member
No need to apologize. It just makes it hard to distinguish what you said from what you're quoting.
 

gordon 2

Senior Member
Hum. There is perhaps in general two readings of the same scipture that will give different meaning.

If one reads from the perspective of this-for-that, -t'it-for-tat, cause and effect---one gets a meaning in keeping with the reading, or a this-for-that meaning.

If one reads from the perspective of grace for grace, or this for this, a meaning will be different than the above meaning.

The same sun shines, the same light lights up differently these two different worlds.

Perhaps.

Luke 1:18-20

And Zacharias said to the angel, "How shall I know this? For I am an old man, and my wife is well advanced in years."



And the angel answered and said to him, "I am Gabriel, who stands in the presence of God, and was sent to speak to you and bring you these glad tidings. But behold, you will be mute and not able to speak until the day these things take place, because you did not believe my words which will be fulfilled in their own time."

-----

And there was another Zacharius who climbed a tree.
 
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Artfuldodger

Senior Member
I never heard of OSAS or the elect growing up in a Baptist Church. My sister believes in OSAS. I reckon the whole world believes in OSAS except me and Ronnie. I was taught that I was responsible for my own actions. I was taught that God would Punish me if I did wrong. It kept me in line knowing God would punish me. If i had believed in OSAS as a teenager, wow!
This was a Southern Baptist Church but most of my beliefs were from my Mom as it was her job to do the child rearing. She wasn't allowed to wear shorts, play cards, say "I swear" or "you're lying", etc. growing up. Her grandparents raised her and the went to New Hope Baptist Church in Ambrose, Georgia.
It's weird to me how whole belief systems can change & evolve over time. I wonder if the members of New Hope follow my Great Grandparents beliefs.
 

centerpin fan

Senior Member
Reminds me of this hymn

Blessed assurance, Jesus is mine!
Oh, what a foretaste of glory divine!
Heir of salvation, purchase of God,
Born of His Spirit, washed in His blood.

Refrain:

This is my story, this is my song,
Praising my Savior all the day long;
This is my story, this is my song,
Praising my Savior all the day long.

Perfect submission, perfect delight,
Visions of rapture now burst on my sight;
Angels, descending, bring from above
Echoes of mercy, whispers of love.

Perfect submission, all is at rest,
I in my Savior am happy and blest,
Watching and waiting, looking above,
Filled with His goodness, lost in His love.
 

hobbs27

Senior Member
I never heard of OSAS or the elect growing up in a Baptist Church. My sister believes in OSAS. I reckon the whole world believes in OSAS except me and Ronnie.

It doesn't really matter, while you guys try to live the best you can to maintain your salvation... we try to live the best we can to maintain obedience to our Father.

Two things I've never got a straight answer on from folks that believe in salvation coming and going though is,

1.If we are saved by grace which is an undeserving love, How can we become too undeserving of grace?

2.God doesn't make mistakes, so why would he apply the blood of Christ to you...knowing he's just going to have to take it away?

I suspect you guys look to examples of those that have confessed Christ, yet haven't truly recieved him. I've heard numerous testimonies of people that have been decieved by man.Whether they have been drug down to an altar, told to repeat a prayer, or sign a card...Later on in their life God called and they answered truly, and got it right.
Many probably took the word of man they were saved, and went on to live without Christ...Those are the ones I suspect you think lost their salvation for they are living in the world. That's just my opinion, and for myself I will continue praying, reading, and asking for the Holy Spirit to guide the way for my understanding.
 

Artfuldodger

Senior Member
Blessed assurance, Jesus is mine!
Oh, what a foretaste of glory divine!
Heir of salvation, purchase of God,
Born of His Spirit, washed in His blood.

Refrain:

This is my story, this is my song,
Praising my Savior all the day long;
This is my story, this is my song,
Praising my Savior all the day long.

Perfect submission, perfect delight,
Visions of rapture now burst on my sight;
Angels, descending, bring from above
Echoes of mercy, whispers of love.

Perfect submission, all is at rest,
I in my Savior am happy and blest,
Watching and waiting, looking above,
Filled with His goodness, lost in His love.

One of my favorites, use to sing it alot growing up. My beliefs have also changed/evolved over time. I still like the song though. Now, thanks to you, i'll think about this next time I sing it. (No hard feelings)
 

Artfuldodger

Senior Member
It doesn't really matter, while you guys try to live the best you can to maintain your salvation... we try to live the best we can to maintain obedience to our Father.

Two things I've never got a straight answer on from folks that believe in salvation coming and going though is,

1.If we are saved by grace which is an undeserving love, How can we become too undeserving of grace?

2.God doesn't make mistakes, so why would he apply the blood of Christ to you...knowing he's just going to have to take it away?

I'll have to think about question #1, but #2 is: If God doesn't make any mistakes and died for everyone, why are some people still going to He11? That wasn't an answer to #2, ok let me try again: Salvation is a gift from God. God will never ask for his gift back. Short answer: You can give it back. Why? Freewill. You have "Blessed Assurance" if you want it.
 

NE GA Pappy

Mr. Pappy
It doesn't really matter, while you guys try to live the best you can to maintain your salvation... we try to live the best we can to maintain obedience to our Father.

Two things I've never got a straight answer on from folks that believe in salvation coming and going though is,

1.If we are saved by grace which is an undeserving love, How can we become too undeserving of grace?

2.God doesn't make mistakes, so why would he apply the blood of Christ to you...knowing he's just going to have to take it away?

I suspect you guys look to examples of those that have confessed Christ, yet haven't truly recieved him. I've heard numerous testimonies of people that have been decieved by man.Whether they have been drug down to an altar, told to repeat a prayer, or sign a card...Later on in their life God called and they answered truly, and got it right.
Many probably took the word of man they were saved, and went on to live without Christ...Those are the ones I suspect you think lost their salvation for they are living in the world. That's just my opinion, and for myself I will continue praying, reading, and asking for the Holy Spirit to guide the way for my understanding.

I have heard this definition my whole life..... unmerited favor.... but I have come to the conclusion it is probably the worst definition you can use for grace. All of God's gifts to us are undeserved love, or unmerited favor.

Did I deserve to be saved? No. Healed? no. My health? no. There is no gift from God that I deserve.

Mike Franklin probably has the best definition of grace I have heard.

Grace = God's power in me, doing for me, what I can not do for myself.

Just a thought......
 

Artfuldodger

Senior Member
Those following the Arminian Theological position base their belief that a person that was once saved can later fall from grace and lose that salvation. Among major groups that follow this teaching are the Weslyans, the Methodists, and the Nazarenes. I thought Baptist were Arminian.

2 Peter 1:10 states, "Therefore, brethren, be all the more diligent to make certain about His calling and choosing you; for as long as you practice these things, you will never stumble.

They believe you must practise the "Christian Life". Goodbye Baptist, Hello Methodist. Uh-oh, they don't dunk. Still looking.
 

Artfuldodger

Senior Member
I suspect you guys look to examples of those that have confessed Christ, yet haven't truly recieved him.

This is actually one of you guys reasonings. If a Christians goes off the deep end and rapes or murders someone, then he was never a Christian. This is a form of OSAS Lite Edition:

OSAS Lite

I call it "Lite" as a tongue in cheek kind of joke regarding to popular beers and alchohols, it still causes a drunken stupor, but with half the calories! This version teaches that a person is saved forever just by their little moment of faith, however, if they commit heinous sinful acts, then they were never really saved to begin with. The OSAS Lite crowd has the same cookie-cutter answers to just about every verse used to refute them. Usually their sneaky way out when I confront them on people backsliding, or falling into evil, turning from God etc. is to answer something along the lines of "They were never saved to begin with, or they wouldn't have done [evil deed] but once a person is really saved, then they can never become unsaved and will never [evil deed] for the rest of their life." It's very clever, but not irrefutable, here are the verses that the OSAS Lite folks cannot answer:....

http://www.thejesuscommandment.com/osas.html
 
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Ronnie T

Ol' Retired Mod
Without quoting a lot of scriptures, please let me share my perspective as a person who does not subscribe to 'once saved always saved'.

I believe every Christian should be able to have confidence in their salvation. No disciple of Christ should ever go to bed at night worried that their salvation has been taken away. Committing sin will certainly not seperate a person from Christ, for Christ will forgive our sins. If a person is seeking Christ, they should probably have assurance of salvation.

Now, I can only speak for myself, because I cannot know the heart or history of any other person.
I cannot tell you if I've ever known any person who was once saved but has now lost it. No person is my servant so I freely allow God to make those calls. So I cannot tell you if I've ever met someone who was once saved, but now isn't. I don't know those things.

I know people who were at one time faithful to the Lord's church, but have now destroyed their marriage, childrens lives and their own lives. They now live horrible lives. They are horrible people. I don't know if they were ever truly saved, or if they will return to the Lord before death. Not my job.

When I read and study the Bible(in context, rightly divided) I find at least two places where Jew's became Christians, enjoyed the grace found in Jesus, experienced the heavenly gifts that are found in Jesus, but then turned back to their old Jewish beliefs and stopped believing in the grace and mercy of Jesus. The Bible writer states that, for those of them who have turned away from the grace of Jesus, their remains no more hope for them.

I also believe the Bible tells me that God has left me with the power to make decisions. And one of the greatest decisions he has left to me is my decision to love Him forever. God will not make that decision for me, and God will not force me to make that continual decision. God wants it to be my decision. He wants my free love and devotion.

That "Love" comes from me, everything else is only possible through God's touch in my life.

I don't live for Christ so that I can earn my way to heaven.
I don't live for Christ so that I can pay Christ back.

I live for Christ because I've become His disciple, and He lives in me.

I would never want someone to die and go to hel l because they 'thought' they got saved 30 years ago and today they read about 'once saved always saved'.

People like me don't believe a person earns their way to heaven. You get to heaven by knowing the landlord.
 
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