Jesus' deity was divinely limited

The Jews wanted to stone Jesus because he said he was the Son of God.
Luke 22:70
They all asked, "Are you then the Son of God?" He replied, "You are right in saying I am."

John 19:7
The Jews insisted, "We have a law, and according to that law he must die, because he claimed to be the Son of God."

John 10:36
do you say of Him, whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world, 'You are blaspheming,' because I said, 'I am the Son of God'?"

Why would Jesus say "I and my Father are one", "The Father is greater than I", "I am the Mediator between man & God".
When the Jews ask him if he was God, why didn't he say "Yes I am God. You can pick up all the stones you want and I won't go hide."

Artfuldodger said:

The Jews wanted to stone Jesus because he said he was the Son of God.
Luke 22:70
They all asked, "Are you then the Son of God?" He replied, "You are right in saying I am."

John 19:7
The Jews insisted, "We have a law, and according to that law he must die, because he claimed to be the Son of God."

John 10:36
do you say of Him, whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world, 'You are blaspheming,' because I said, 'I am the Son of God'?"

Why would Jesus say "I and my Father are one", "The Father is greater than I", "I am the Mediator between man & God".
When the Jews ask him if he was God, why didn't he say "Yes I am God. You can pick up all the stones you want and I won't go hide."

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Correct. They were looking for anything to twist in order that they might accuse him. Yet at his trial, they had to search out false witnesses to find anything against him. Since they could find nothing, they handed him over to Pilate as one starting a rebellion against Rome. Long after every chance for his socalled God claims with no accusations of such, only at the point that Pilate might release him, someone in a last minute grasp for something, made a claim "We have a law......." Why was this not mentioned until now. His sign written above his head was proof of what he was claiming. And it was not God.

They wanted to stone him because he insulted their religious intergrity. They thought that they had mastered being religious. They were proud, puffed up. Jesus insulted them. This they despised

1gr8bldr said:

They wanted to stone him because he insulted their religious intergrity. They thought that they had mastered being religious. They were proud, puffed up. Jesus insulted them. This they despised

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Yep.
How dare he! Who did he think he is, anyway?

1gr8bldr said:

Orthodoxy was not the result of understanding. It was through power, power of Constantine

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I'm not sure you understand my position. I do not champion orthodoxy for orthodoxy's sake. Far from it. And, the mention of Constantine is a red herring, at best.

What I do count as meaningful is the research/scholarship used in reaching 21st century Christian theology that supports orthodoxy. When the preponderance of new evidence (say, from the last 200 years) under-girds the understandings that have been around much longer, well, it makes no sense to throw rocks at orthodoxy.

Orthodoxy can be spot on or it can be beyond-the-pale wrong.
Orthodoxal thinking is never right because it is orthodoxal. It is right because it is right... or it is wrong because it is wrong.
Likewise, anti-orthodoxal thinking is right if it is right and wrong if it is wrong.

Mainstream Christian theology is mainstream in large part because it has been repeatedly tested against the assaults of radical 'new' ideas, such as you and Artfuldodger have brought to the table.

Authentic Swiss cheese is processed with gas-producing bacteria, forming the many voids that, when sliced, appear to be holes.

You may be quite sincere in your theology, but slicing through it with the Word and the guidance of the Holy Spirit, I find no bacteria.. but lots of holes.

The only time Jesus has ever been limited is when we as weak believers limit him because of our lack of faith.

Just because something didn't happen because it was the plan of God doesn't mean there was a limit line drawn.

To many times we refuse to cross a line that was never drawn in the first place.

thedeacon said:

The only time Jesus has ever been limited is when we as weak believers limit him because of our lack of faith.

Just because something didn't happen because it was the plan of God doesn't mean there was a limit line drawn.

To many times we refuse to cross a line that was never drawn in the first place.

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Funny how we sometimes set rules. What can and cannot; will and will not happen. God's diety is never limited. There are no limits to God's reach except that which He decides to limit Himself at a particular time.

The thief is one. Ananias is another.

Ronnie T said:

Funny how we sometimes set rules. What can and cannot; will and will not happen. God's diety is never limited. There are no limits to God's reach except that which He decides to limit Himself at a particular time.

The thief is one. Ananias is another.

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The O.P. was whether Jesus' deity was limited so that he could experience things the way man could. Examples: pain, suffering, hunger, thirst, need for prayer, need for sleep, & most importantly the ability to die.
How could he have done all this if he didn't limit his deity?
God the Father in Heaven has no limits.

Ronnie T said:

John 10:18
No one has taken it away from Me, but I lay it down on My own initiative. I have authority to lay it down, and I have authority to take it up again. This commandment I received from My Father.”

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I realize you responded with this verse but I kinda wanted a few more responses on Jesus limiting his deity. (and not just from you). I know we got off topic a little and that's ok too.

Men simply don't like to be seen as obeying other men. Somehow it seems to demean them, to be under the authority of something they believe no better than themselves.
Men proudly proclaim "I don't listen to men, I listen only to God!"
Men know it is a shame to have anything over them but God. But God has ordained a man, Christ Jesus, to be over all things to us...because of his (not our imaginary ability) obedience to the one true God.
The man who strives to know the naked truth of God will also learn along the way the peculiar presence of something that wants to submit to the creature (as did Adam) that had submitted to the lie of the serpent...a very beggarly creature over which that man was to have dominion.
The way of deliverance out of that man (Adam) that derivatively submitted to that weak and clever being is through obedience to another man.
There's simply no way around a man to God. But through one.
Not receiving God's order simply shows we are yet abiding in a rebellious man, simply telling ourselves "I'll do it my way"

1Co_11:3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.

A man once fell for not heeding his head, but for acquiescing to the one whose head he had been made.

To deny the manhood of Christ is to simply show you are still in love, and found in, the man who fell. And submitted to his weak and beggarly choices.

Artfuldodger said:

The O.P. was whether Jesus' deity was limited so that he could experience things the way man could. Examples: pain, suffering, hunger, thirst, need for prayer, need for sleep, & most importantly the ability to die.
How could he have done all this if he didn't limit his deity?
God the Father in Heaven has no limits.

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Now really! This is a blanket statement, I believe. God the Father has limits. If you remember in the creation story His creation(creating) is not limited. It goes from one item to the next. Also, there was a limit to what "tree" boys and girls were permitted to cleave to.

In the Old Testament God claims that He is a jealous (pain) God. He also hears the prayers and cries of little people, the poor and the folk treated unjustly.( Read prophets.) The consequences for accepting injustice as ordinary part of life are very severe to even His chosen people! They return to slavery to where they had been made free! They like Adam and Eve before get bumped out of the zone. etc...

I think that God the Father does have limits. He states He is long suffering. He has made known the limits in how people use or are in relationship to Him. ( See Job.) He also has limits on what is moral and just.( See Good Samaritan.) From anger to grace there is plenty of evidence that God has limits (emotional limits) to what man does as His creation and in His Creation.

From pointing out what was clean and unclean and what is rightiousness throught out time, for what is in the heart of men, for me my Father has always had limits--and the word states His emotions concerning them...

God the Father has put limits on us. If that is what you are getting at, i'll agree. God the Father put limits on his Son Jesus or either Jesus put limits on himself.

I am not sure what you mean by limits. We are as free as all the love there is. Love is not only real, it is what is real. Everything else...even the limits we may see imposed are a result of our imperfect sight, not the truth.
Something there is that loves a wall...

When all the desire to maintain our own "intactness" dissolves in the revelation of the one torn open for us, refusing to abide alone and we finally see the fullness of he who abode within Him...we will also discover

Something there is that doesn't love a wall...

After a little more study on this subject, I'm even more concrete in knowing that Jesus is God.Here's my case from the word of God.

Isaiah43:10 Ye are my witnesses,saith the Lord, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

Now, Paul says that
1Corinthians 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father

God the Father speaking of the Son in Hebrews 1:8
But unto the Son he saith, Thy Throne, O God, is for ever and ever:

In Acts 5:3-4 Ananias lied to the Holy Spirit, Peter points out that he had not lied to men but to God.

Finally John 17:1-26 shows the Father and the Son love one another, and speak to one another,
and together they send the Holy Spirit John 15:26,

and Jesus proclaims that He and the Father are two distinct witnesses, and two distinct Judges , John 8:14-18
If you read the scriptures and pray about it I hope you will understand what Im saying, Jesus, The Father, and The Holy Spirit are one, with distinct functions, so basically, Our God is one
(What) with three (Who's).

hobbs27 said:

After a little more study on this subject, I'm even more concrete in knowing that Jesus is God.Here's my case from the word of God.

Isaiah43:10 Ye are my witnesses,saith the Lord, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

Now, Paul says that
1Corinthians 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father

God the Father speaking of the Son in Hebrews 1:8
But unto the Son he saith, Thy Throne, O God, is for ever and ever:

In Acts 5:3-4 Ananias lied to the Holy Spirit, Peter points out that he had not lied to men but to God.

Finally John 17:1-26 shows the Father and the Son love one another, and speak to one another,
and together they send the Holy Spirit John 15:26,

and Jesus proclaims that He and the Father are two distinct witnesses, and two distinct Judges , John 8:14-18
If you read the scriptures and pray about it I hope you will understand what Im saying, Jesus, The Father, and The Holy Spirit are one, with distinct functions, so basically, Our God is one
(What) with three (Who's).

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What does this say? It says the Father is the only God.

hobbs27 said:

After a little more study on this subject, I'm even more concrete in knowing that Jesus is God.Here's my case from the word of God.

Isaiah43:10 Ye are my witnesses,saith the Lord, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

Now, Paul says that
1Corinthians 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father

God the Father speaking of the Son in Hebrews 1:8
But unto the Son he saith, Thy Throne, O God, is for ever and ever:

In Acts 5:3-4 Ananias lied to the Holy Spirit, Peter points out that he had not lied to men but to God.

Finally John 17:1-26 shows the Father and the Son love one another, and speak to one another,
and together they send the Holy Spirit John 15:26,

and Jesus proclaims that He and the Father are two distinct witnesses, and two distinct Judges , John 8:14-18
If you read the scriptures and pray about it I hope you will understand what Im saying, Jesus, The Father, and The Holy Spirit are one, with distinct functions, so basically, Our God is one
(What) with three (Who's).

Click to expand...

This is not God calling Jesus God. It is merely the Hebrew writer calling our attention to an OT passage. The first portion is about God for context and so that we can see from where it came. "therefore God [God Almighty] your God {jesus's God] has set you above...annointing you...'. Why would the writer of Hebrews tell us in the same breath that Jesus is superior to the angels or "let all God's angel's worship him". If he is God, then that would be a given would it not?

hobbs27 said:

After a little more study on this subject, I'm even more concrete in knowing that Jesus is God.Here's my case from the word of God.

Isaiah43:10 Ye are my witnesses,saith the Lord, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

Now, Paul says that
1Corinthians 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father

God the Father speaking of the Son in Hebrews 1:8
But unto the Son he saith, Thy Throne, O God, is for ever and ever:

In Acts 5:3-4 Ananias lied to the Holy Spirit, Peter points out that he had not lied to men but to God.

Finally John 17:1-26 shows the Father and the Son love one another, and speak to one another,
and together they send the Holy Spirit John 15:26,

and Jesus proclaims that He and the Father are two distinct witnesses, and two distinct Judges , John 8:14-18
If you read the scriptures and pray about it I hope you will understand what Im saying, Jesus, The Father, and The Holy Spirit are one, with distinct functions, so basically, Our God is one
(What) with three (Who's).

Click to expand...

Annias lied to God. The HS is God. God is Spirit and God is Holy. The HS is not a coequal 3rd person of the trinity. When the Spirit or the Shekeniah Glory entered the temple, was it the Spirit of God? or his coequal 3rd person, God the Holy Spirit?

hobbs27 said:

After a little more study on this subject, I'm even more concrete in knowing that Jesus is God.Here's my case from the word of God.

Isaiah43:10 Ye are my witnesses,saith the Lord, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

Now, Paul says that
1Corinthians 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father

God the Father speaking of the Son in Hebrews 1:8
But unto the Son he saith, Thy Throne, O God, is for ever and ever:

In Acts 5:3-4 Ananias lied to the Holy Spirit, Peter points out that he had not lied to men but to God.

Finally John 17:1-26 shows the Father and the Son love one another, and speak to one another,
and together they send the Holy Spirit John 15:26,

and Jesus proclaims that He and the Father are two distinct witnesses, and two distinct Judges , John 8:14-18
If you read the scriptures and pray about it I hope you will understand what Im saying, Jesus, The Father, and The Holy Spirit are one, with distinct functions, so basically, Our God is one
(What) with three (Who's).

Click to expand...

Love one another, speak to one another means nothing in regards to the trinity. Together they don't send the HS. When Solomons's temple was completed, the Spirit of God came to dwell. The completion made way for God's Spirit. Jesus upon finishing his work, "tear down this temple and be raised a new not made by human hands" has completed the temple for God to dwell. So he did not send the HS, as if it was up to him to give, it was already planned to come once his work was completed

hobbs27 said:

After a little more study on this subject, I'm even more concrete in knowing that Jesus is God.Here's my case from the word of God.

Isaiah43:10 Ye are my witnesses,saith the Lord, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

Now, Paul says that
1Corinthians 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father

God the Father speaking of the Son in Hebrews 1:8
But unto the Son he saith, Thy Throne, O God, is for ever and ever:

In Acts 5:3-4 Ananias lied to the Holy Spirit, Peter points out that he had not lied to men but to God.

Finally John 17:1-26 shows the Father and the Son love one another, and speak to one another,
and together they send the Holy Spirit John 15:26,

and Jesus proclaims that He and the Father are two distinct witnesses, and two distinct Judges , John 8:14-18
If you read the scriptures and pray about it I hope you will understand what Im saying, Jesus, The Father, and The Holy Spirit are one, with distinct functions, so basically, Our God is one
(What) with three (Who's).

Click to expand...

Jesus has received the Spirit of his Father. That made them one. Not the Father, Son and HS are one

1gr8bldr said:

What does this say? It says the Father is the only God.

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Yep, thats what it says, and it's right. Jesus is the only God , The Holy Spirit is the only God and , The Father is the only God.

1gr8bldr said:

This is not God calling Jesus God. It is merely the Hebrew writer calling our attention to an OT passage.

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It is God the Father calling the Son God, and the NT is translated from Greek.

1gr8bldr said:

The first portion is about God for context and so that we can see from where it came. "therefore God [God Almighty] your God {jesus's God] has set you above...annointing you...'. Why would the writer of Hebrews tell us in the same breath that Jesus is superior to the angels or "let all God's angel's worship him". If he is God, then that would be a given would it not?

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A better question for you is, Would God the Father suggest we or Angels worship a seperate being other than himself? We are to worship only one God, and that God is, God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit.

1gr8bldr said:

Annias lied to God. The HS is God. God is Spirit and God is Holy. The HS is not a coequal 3rd person of the trinity. When the Spirit or the Shekeniah Glory entered the temple, was it the Spirit of God? or his coequal 3rd person, God the Holy Spirit?

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Man...come on , you're 2 for 3, now add the Son and you will have a complete God, you know , The Father, The Son, The Holy Spirit God,

1gr8bldr said:

Jesus has received the Spirit of his Father. That made them one. Not the Father, Son and HS are one

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We simply disagree.