The case of Cassie Bernall

bullethead said:

Part of having knowledge is retaining it.
Those sources have been given and refuted at LEAST a half dozen times in this forum.
The problem with these secular sites is that they rely on participants like above in the spiritual forums and a few that frequent here. It doesn't matter how thoroughly refuted their claims are, they just keep on going with it.

Super nice try though.
Repost it again in a few months. Maybe it will change in your favor.

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I know they've been used a bluegazillion times but they are the next best thing to using the word of God.
So,trying to accomodate your love of secular,I thought I would humor you.
But,knowing that an unbeliever must remain an unbeliever unless God opens his eyes,I didn't look for any other response from you.I still enjoyed conversing with you about it.

JESUS CHRIST - NO HISTORICAL EVIDENCE

IN ONE OF THE MOST CAREFULLY DOCUMENTED PERIODS OF ROMAN AND ANCIENT HISTORY



The time that Jesus Christ supposedly existed is one the most heavily documented periods in ancient history. Yet there is virtually zero historical evidence of his supposed existence in any contemporary historical record. It is also important to understand that an absolute reign of terror was instituted when Christianity seized power in the Roman Empire as documented in our Christian Totalitarianism Report. The Church appointed an official historian of dubious ethics, Eusebius, to write an official history. Meanwhile, Christian launched the largest book burning campaign in history, destroying a vast part of the wisdom and history of the ancient world forever.

The Account of Josephus is a Fraud

When discussing the alleged existence of Jesus Christ, one piece of "evidence" that frequently gets mentioned is the account of Flavius Josephus, the famed Jewish general and historian who lived from 37 to 100 C.E. In Josephus's Antiquities of the Jews there is a notorious passage regarding Christ called the "Testimonium Flavium."

"Now, there was about this time, Jesus, a wise man, if it be lawful to call him a man, for he was a doer of wonderful works,--a teacher of such men as receive the truth with pleasure. He drew over to him both many of the Jews, and many of the Gentiles. He was [the] Christ; and when Pilate, at the suggestion of the principal men amongst us, had condemned him to the cross, those that loved him at the first did not forsake him, for he appeared to them alive again the third day, as the divine prophets had foretold these and ten thousand other wonderful things concerning him; and the tribe of Christians, so named from him, are not extinct at this day." (Whitson, 379).

This brief piece of evidence which supposedly contributed the best "proof" of Jesus's existence has actually been proven to be a fraud. It has been demonstrated continuously over the centuries that "Testamonium Flavium" was a forgery manufactured by the Catholic Church, and was inserted into Josephus's works. The Testamonium Flavium account is so thoroughly refuted, that biblical scholars since the 19th century have refused to refer to it, unless to mention its false nature.

Dr. Gordon Stein gives a further explanation for this forgery. The History of Jesus: A Reply to Josh McDowell.

Another source is The Jesus Forgery: Josephus Untangled.

First Written Accounts of Jesus's Life Occur Decades After His Purported Existence

Most written accounts of the life of Jesus did not exist until a couple decades after his purported existence. These accounts were presented by a number of different authors and had somewhat conflicting stories about his existence. These written accounts are known as the Gospels. Also, it is worth knowing that not all of the gospels that were written even made their way into the bible. Only four gospels became the canonical writings for the church. The rest were burned, destroyed or lost. Historians estimate that the first written gospel, the gospel of Mark, was written sometime after 70 C.E, which means that at the earliest, it would have been written 40 years after the alleged crucifixion of Jesus.

PLINY, TACITUS AND SUETONIUS: NO PROOF OF JESUS

Nero's Persecution of Christians and Mention of Jesus is Highly Doubtful

There is widespread belief that Nero blamed the burning of Rome on the Christians; however, there are many holes in this theory.

This belief comes from the account of the Roman historian Tacitus (56-120 CE) about how Emperor Nero (37 - 68 CE) blamed the burning of Rome on "those people who were abhorred for their crimes and commonly called Christians." The passage then states that the fire agitators were followers of "Christus" who "was put to death as a criminal by the procurator Pontius Pilate." The passage then also states that Christians constituted a "vast multitude at Rome" and goes on to discuss the ghastly ways in which they were persecuted.

However, there are many troubling details about the historical accuracy of this passage. Some critics call into question whether Tacitus wrote this account at all, or if it was yet another forgery. Around the date of Nero's Fire, 64 AD, there were no "multitude of Christians" in Rome. At this time, there was not even a multitude of Christians in Judea. Therefore, it is highly doubtful that Nero would refer to Christians in this way.

This is also the only mention of Christians in the work of Tacitus, despite the fact that he wrote several volumes

Also, the supposed persecution of the Christians by Nero is not recorded by any other historian of Nero's time. If the persecution of Christians were really that widespread, wouldn't other historians be writing about it? (Truth Be Known)

Pliny's Letter About "Christiani"

In addition to the Testomonium Flavianum, there exists another tenuous piece of evidence that some have tried to use as proof for the existence of Jesus. The Roman Historian, Pliny The Younger (62-113CE), wrote a letter to the Emperor Trajan in 110 CE requesting his assistance in the proper punishment of a group of "Christiani" who were causing trouble and would not bow to the image of the emperor. According to Pliny, these Christiani would meet before daylight and sing hymns with responses to "Christ as God."

However, this letter does not provide concrete evidence for the existence of Jesus as a person since it makes no direct mention of "Jesus of Nazareth," nor does it refer to his life. Also, there are many critics who have argued that this letter is a forgery. (Truth Be Known)

Suetonius's Reference to "Chresto"

The last piece of questionable historical evidence we'll discuss here is the passage in Suetonius's Life of Claudius, dating around 110 CE. There is a reference in this work to a figure named "Chresto" who caused the Jews to riot in Rome. First of all, if Jesus Christ did exist, it is not possible that he would have been in Rome at this time. Claudius reigned from 41-54 CE, this is at the time of Christ's alleged crucifixion.

welderguy said:

I know they've been used a bluegazillion times but they are the next best thing to using the word of God.
So,trying to accomodate your love of secular,I thought I would humor you.
But,knowing that an unbeliever must remain an unbeliever unless God opens his eyes,I didn't look for any other response from you.I still enjoyed conversing with you about it.

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The word of god comes from the pen of man.

bullethead said:

The word of god comes from the pen of man.

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Sure.But inspired by the mind of God,which is the part you've obviously been blinded to.

welderguy said:

Sure.But inspired by the mind of God,which is the part you've obviously been blinded to.

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Brother welderguy, not only have you been unable to provide extraordinary evidence regarding your extraordinary claims, but you are unable to provide even ordinary evidence.

Someone is certainly blinded bud.

bullethead said:

Brother welderguy, not only have you been unable to provide extraordinary evidence regarding your extraordinary claims, but you are unable to provide even ordinary evidence.

Someone is certainly blinded bud.

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You are correct.Nothing has been proven.It's not my job to make you believe.God's Spirit does that.
If it ever happens,you will know what I'm talking about.Until then,you'll continue to think I'm a nutcase.I'm ok with that.

But I don't think you realize who the loser is here.

welderguy said:

You are correct.Nothing has been proven.It's not my job to make you believe.God's Spirit does that.
If it ever happens,you will know what I'm talking about.Until then,you'll continue to think I'm a nutcase.I'm ok with that.

But I don't think you realize who the loser is here.

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You continue to keep trying to stack the deck but ignoring the evidence doesn't change the evidence.

bullethead said:

You continue to keep trying to stack the deck but ignoring the evidence doesn't change the evidence.

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What evidence?

welderguy said:

What evidence?

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Incredulity serves you well.