Time to provide your input!

Lone Hunter · Jan 3, 2017

Thanks.

I went up there to look around, and stepping out of my truck I threw my back out and spent two weeks in bed!!!!

A flatlander from LA transplanted to GA I am looking forward to going back up to the mountains above Commerce and finding even a bear track.

The "bring out the meat" requirement will surely cure any itchy trigger finger.

I'd love a big fuzzy rug for my feet on cold days though.

Killer Kyle · Jan 4, 2017

deerpoacher1970 said:
I will guarantee you they are more bears killed in October with bear dogs than they ever will be killed in January if you want to reduce the bear population you need to kill the sows,most of the bear chased in January are boar bears.

You are correct Deer poacher. I'm not disagreeing with you on that. I suggested a January hunt so the additional hunt still provides opportunity for the dog men, yet doesn't interfere with the already set traditional seasons. That's the only reason I suggested that month. You are correct, Sept-Oct is prime time in the bear woods.

goshenmountainman · Jan 4, 2017

900 Shooter said:
goshenmountainman, I'm surprised at your comments that you dislike bears so much and you posted on the bear hunting forum. I think if you have so many bears that you don't want, send me your location and I will be more than happy to take a couple for you. Bear hunting was tough where I was hunting this year due to the acorn crop.
I also think that opening the WMA to bows all season long will help too.

The bears I saw were all on public land and none of them were in the same place, three different counties. I did the most scouting this year that I ever have done and there wasn't alot of deer sign anywhere but plenty of bear everywhere. A friend and I were talking about the late eighties and early nineties today, and were talking how they weren't bear back then and plenty of big bucks and lots of deer. Now we have plenty of bear and not very many deer period. If something isn't done pretty quick I bet in the next five years there won't be any left. Also I have seen some hunts for black bear out west in the spring and what do you think they were using for calls to call them in? Fawn in distress!! That alone should tell us something about the Black bear and the deer population.

deerpoacher1970 · Jan 5, 2017

goshenmountainman said:
The bears I saw were all on public land and none of them were in the same place, three different counties. I did the most scouting this year that I ever have done and there wasn't alot of deer sign anywhere but plenty of bear everywhere. A friend and I were talking about the late eighties and early nineties today, and were talking how they weren't bear back then and plenty of big bucks and lots of deer. Now we have plenty of bear and not very many deer period. If something isn't done pretty quick I bet in the next five years there won't be any left. Also I have seen some hunts for black bear out west in the spring and what do you think they were using for calls to call them in? Fawn in distress!! That alone should tell us something about the Black bear and the deer population.

You are right bears and coyote eat fawns that is something that we didn't have many of in the 80s and 90's also all these clear cuts that everybody thinks is so good for deer,what are they good for now ,what can they eat in these now not much.

ripplerider · Jan 5, 2017

Good place to find fox grapes but they are mostly grown up in poplars. They were good for deer when they were newly cut though. We need more now. I'd love to see a spring bear season, theyre supposed to come to calls much better then. That would be a rush, calling a bear in close. I have no doubts that they take many fawns; look what they did to the elk in Cattaloochee valley. Elk numbers were stagnant till they started an agressive trapping program for bears then the elk population really took off.

tree cutter 08 · Jan 5, 2017

Prime example, if a bear will kill a elk, a fawn deer is no match. Bear are constantly searching for food during the summer and that's when fawns are born. Its hard for me to understand how deer are even surviving the big mountain woods now. I found more bear sign than ever this year and I didn't walk more than normal. That's just looking for deer sign not trying to find a bear. One stretch of land I hunt I covered in a few days during muzzloader. I'm guessing probably a 1000 to 1500 acre section of woods. Best I could tell there were 3 sows with cubs and 3 boars or loan sow bears plus the one I killed. With as much cover and food and water I feel sure they were different bears. That's nearly a bear per 100 acres. I seen 4 deer there this season. As recent as 8 years ago I have counted 15 deer in 1 hunt. May would see 1 bear a year or so there. I'm with kyle, would like to see a January dog season.

deerpoacher1970 · Jan 5, 2017

ripplerider said:
Good place to find fox grapes but they are mostly grown up in poplars. They were good for deer when they were newly cut though. We need more now. I'd love to see a spring bear season, theyre supposed to come to calls much better then. That would be a rush, calling a bear in close. I have no doubts that they take many fawns; look what they did to the elk in Cattaloochee valley. Elk numbers were stagnant till they started an agressive trapping program for bears then the elk population really took off.

I have watched the bears in Cattaloochee walk the tree line watching the elk calves waiting on the chance to get one.

deerpoacher1970 · Jan 5, 2017

tree cutter 08 said:
Prime example, if a bear will kill a elk, a fawn deer is no match. Bear are constantly searching for food during the summer and that's when fawns are born. Its hard for me to understand how deer are even surviving the big mountain woods now. I found more bear sign than ever this year and I didn't walk more than normal. That's just looking for deer sign not trying to find a bear. One stretch of land I hunt I covered in a few days during muzzloader. I'm guessing probably a 1000 to 1500 acre section of woods. Best I could tell there were 3 sows with cubs and 3 boars or loan sow bears plus the one I killed. With as much cover and food and water I feel sure they were different bears. That's nearly a bear per 100 acres. I seen 4 deer there this season. As recent as 8 years ago I have counted 15 deer in 1 hunt. May would see 1 bear a year or so there. I'm with kyle, would like to see a January dog season.

I think a spring bear season with dogs would be good,last 2 weeks of May would be real good,and allow you to bait them up and then turn the dogs on them.

lampern · Jan 5, 2017

October would be best for a season with dogs.

deerpoacher1970 · Jan 5, 2017

lampern said:
October would be best for a season with dogs.

You are right but it might interrupt their deer season.

lampern · Jan 6, 2017

deerpoacher1970 said:
You are right but it might interrupt their deer season.

So?

Share the woods and make it short. The national forest is plenty big.

Killer Kyle · Jan 12, 2017

I'm here at the Banks County meeting right now. Anybody else here?

Tio Hey Seuss · Jan 18, 2017

tree cutter 08 said:
Prime example, if a bear will kill a elk, a fawn deer is no match. Bear are constantly searching for food during the summer and that's when fawns are born. Its hard for me to understand how deer are even surviving the big mountain woods now. I found more bear sign than ever this year and I didn't walk more than normal. That's just looking for deer sign not trying to find a bear. One stretch of land I hunt I covered in a few days during muzzloader. I'm guessing probably a 1000 to 1500 acre section of woods. Best I could tell there were 3 sows with cubs and 3 boars or loan sow bears plus the one I killed. With as much cover and food and water I feel sure they were different bears. That's nearly a bear per 100 acres. I seen 4 deer there this season. As recent as 8 years ago I have counted 15 deer in 1 hunt. May would see 1 bear a year or so there. I'm with kyle, would like to see a January dog season.

How is it hard for you to understand how deer are surviving in the mountains now? They did just fine for thousands of years in the absence of clear cuts or food plots. During that time they also were surviving predation by wolves and cougars, which belong here and are FAR FAR more efficient killers than the bears and coyotes everyone is convinced are hurting deer populations.
The fact of the matter is a lot of people got used to easy hunting during the 90's and early 2000's when deer were over populated. I say we keep the population at a healthy level to avoid things like black tounge, chronic wasting and hemorrhagic disease.

goshenmountainman · Jan 18, 2017

Tio Hey Seuss said:
How is it hard for you to understand how deer are surviving in the mountains now? They did just fine for thousands of years in the absence of clear cuts or food plots. During that time they also were surviving predation by wolves and cougars, which belong here and are FAR FAR more efficient killers than the bears and coyotes everyone is convinced are hurting deer populations.
The fact of the matter is a lot of people got used to easy hunting during the 90's and early 2000's when deer were over populated. I say we keep the population at a healthy level to avoid things like black tounge, chronic wasting and hemorrhagic disease.

Either you are not hunting the mountains or your not hunting at all. Kyle and myself pretty much strictly hunt public land mountain terrain and there are not that many deer at all. I saw more bear this year than I did deer and that goes for my father too. When we had a good deer population in the mountains we didn't have the bear and the wolves were long gone. The first coyote that I ever even heard of was killed by my dad on Chimney mountain back in 1988, it was running a big eight point buck and there were two of them after the buck. Back then if you saw a bear in the woods it was a big deal now if you see a deer its a big deal, we had lots of deer in the mountains then and now we got lots of bear and yotes. Now I am not saying you can't hunt a private track tucked down in the settlement and not see lots of deer just saying they are not on the public ground like they used to be and it has to be one of these three reasons, 1 bears are getting alot of fawns.2 Coyotes are getting alot of all deer. 3 Over harvest of deer period from hunters that don't know when to quit. I am betting my money on all three reasons!!

tree cutter 08 · Jan 18, 2017

Tio Hey Seuss said:
How is it hard for you to understand how deer are surviving in the mountains now? They did just fine for thousands of years in the absence of clear cuts or food plots. During that time they also were surviving predation by wolves and cougars, which belong here and are FAR FAR more efficient killers than the bears and coyotes everyone is convinced are hurting deer populations.
The fact of the matter is a lot of people got used to easy hunting during the 90's and early 2000's when deer were over populated. I say we keep the population at a healthy level to avoid things like black tounge, chronic wasting and hemorrhagic disease.

I don't know of the easy hunting you are talking about. I started hunting the mountains about 12 or 13 years ago. I heard alot for the older generation of hunters about how good it was in the 70's and 80's. Well before my time in the woods. When I started hunting, you would see deer, probably would see anywhere from 30 to 50 through the the season. Maybe 1 or 2 bears. I already forgot but I think it was less than a dozen deer I seen in the mountains this year. Seen 6 bears and more bear sign than ever. I'm not smart by no means, I'm just voicing what I've seen in the woods over the years and I do spend alot of time in the woods each year. Alot more than I probably should

tree cutter 08 · Jan 18, 2017

By the way, it is possible for something to go extinct. I think it's happened a time or 2 before

deerpoacher1970 · Jan 18, 2017

Tio Hey Seuss said:
How is it hard for you to understand how deer are surviving in the mountains now? They did just fine for thousands of years in the absence of clear cuts or food plots. During that time they also were surviving predation by wolves and cougars, which belong here and are FAR FAR more efficient killers than the bears and coyotes everyone is convinced are hurting deer populations.
The fact of the matter is a lot of people got used to easy hunting during the 90's and early 2000's when deer were over populated. I say we keep the population at a healthy level to avoid things like black tounge, chronic wasting and hemorrhagic disease.

You must be having a dream of some kind if you truly hunt the mountains you would know that there is a major problem with the deer population in the mountains,and I ain't talking about the edge of the mountains where people have deer living in there yard living off of a corn feeder.

Tio Hey Seuss · Jan 18, 2017

I wasn't trying to offend anyone. Just offering my observations. I hunt exclusively on public land in white, lumpkin, habersham and union counties. During the course of this last year I logged about 1.5 thousand miles on foot and probably 125 days in the woods...all public ground up here. That's not to mention the 4 days a week I spend working in a sizeable state park. I think I'm qualified to comment on the state of things and I saw plenty of deer. That being said, I know Kyle, amoung others, spends lots of time out there observing too. All I'm saying is that our ecosystem up here can't support the numbers of deer that other areas can. I actually do agree that our population is a little on the low side now but I think it's primarily due to hunters over harvest of does and not predation by bears. I've got enough pictures of bear CensoredCensoredCensoredCensoredCensored to fill a photo album and maybe 2 or 3 of them had deer fur in them lol.

ddd-shooter · Jan 19, 2017

Let's not forget for thousands of years deer in the Appalachians had chestnut mast every year. A good estimate was 1 out of 4 hardwood trees was a chestnut. Combine this with natural fire, other masts and no humans and you can see why deer and elk thrived here.
If you think they're thriving now, you're crazy. Public land in the actual mountains will net you a lot of bear sightings, a lot of coyote howls, hog rooting and some deer sign.

Tio Hey Seuss · Jan 20, 2017

There absolutely were humans and even though their technology was primitive their skills were not and you can bet they killed plenty.

Of course losing the chestnut was a serious setback to the forest that was defined by it's presence but even considering that, most biologists agree we have more deer now than at the time of European arrival. I find that hard to believe but I don't make a living studying it.
Also, I never said they were thriving now. I said in my opinion, the population is a little lower than it could be but not due to lack of food or predation by bears.
I'm done arguing so think whatever you want.
Getting back on topic, something I think would benifit both the deer and turkey would be to open up our wma's for trapping. It's well documented that trapping is much more effective than hunting as a means of predator population control. Right now only NF outside wma's is open for trapping but even that can't be effectively trapped with all the roads closed after deer/bear season.

Time to provide your input!

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